Thanks. Waiting to hear from the original contractor. It's kind of a joke though, you unplug your unit, remove 4 screws from the panel, 2 screws from the old bulb, remove, replace, rescrew, replug in. All in all it's like a 5 minute job and the local HVAC companies will want hundreds for it. There is no reconfiguration of the house HVAC system, no soldering of a control board, just literally changing a light bulb.

All in all it's like a 5 minute job and the local HVAC companies will want hundreds for it.

Maybe at your house, but we don't live there. Who stocks the truck? Who tells the truck where to go? who manages the truck to make sure they go there? who pays all those people plus the guy in the truck that is driving some where with commercial insurance? who is making those truck payments for that 5 minute job?

all for a 5 min job. then after the job is done who pays for the trip back?

The problem is your discounting 99% of the work involved. The parts don't magically hop on the service van?

It's literally changing a light bulb?

Most companies you find out there may have as many as 4 people who have to get involved on that service ticket from start to finish. (call taker or dispatch, service tech, manager for ticket / funds collection / verification and then book keeper / accountant)

who pays all those salaries? cough cough.

That's why I call the one man? That's why I charge what I charge? I'm doing the work of at least 4 people. And most of the time I'm better than all of them combined. Not perfect just better?

Has any other licensed HVAC company chimed in here? You only ever get what you pay for.

So why do I get involved in such things. Education. There is a shortage of HVAC because of people like you.

Without pay for smallish repairs like this they are going to disappear. PE money has entered the fray and if all that is left is them... so to will be your couple hundred dollar repair.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

To be honest --- this is nothing new. Nothing I haven't seen before when the economy squeezes. If you want me to work you will pay or I simply won't go. Sure you can shop around do all those things --- you could do much worse than me because if I'm involved with it --- it's going to work and work well.

If it doesn't work out, and you're a paying customer? I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt --- provided the problem isn't an older part of your HVAC system.

Call the guys who say they'll come for free, you know the PE guys. You'll see how long PE remains free. You could take a 5 minute look at Venezuela to see the effects of socialism there.

A little story I get some body here who supposedly had a furnace installed a few years ago. He says he had a guy out looking at it and claimed the blower speed was not set right. Being good as I am... I ask him Ok why didn't your guy reset the blower speed to the furnace?

Well he's not familiar with that type of furnace, so he couldn't do it. Ok so you've decided to call someone with skills? Then the conversation turns to reimbursement of having those skills? I find out really quick "WHY" a furnace that was installed a 'few years ago' wasn't set up properly...

And now you think I want to get involved with it / your delusions for "no money".

Remember it's not just about you and what you want. I wasn't talking about any big money... UNLESS after checking the system and going thru everything I don't find something more.

He too broke to even let me check it. ~ True Story. (so he settle for someone with your mentality it only take me 5 minutes) --- but they never make it to my status and in 3 years time they leave HVAC for good... because? "no money for 5 min jobs"

If you don't cover expenses first, how can you pay yourself for the actual 5 min you work?

There's more than a few companies with expenses that far exceed me. Good luck.

Hey Austin Aire, Thanks for your perspectives. I'll give you mine.

I also own a small business, a brand agency. We also see people DIY stuff all the time like using Canva. It has also meant an enormous drop off in regular business. In our industry though you can and must pivot and accept it and work around it. We have to identify and excel at the things clients can not do, or can't do well. And I hear you. I do the job of salesperson, creative director, production person, project manager / client relations manager, IT person, accountant and sometimes collections agent. Within those I do niche tasks that have become their own specialized areas like social media or video production. I easily play 10 roles. Like you I probably wouldn't have it any other way though. I control the quality and am a huge client advocate. I look out for them and do things right, on time and on budget. So yes, it stings me too when I see people DIY things, but I can lament or move on. Your industry might not be able to pivot as easily.

The other perspective I can offer is over the years we have been gouged and lied to over and over and over again by contractors. No matter how many times we read the reviews or get referrals we tend to get really screwed. And for $$$$. And the huge issue is, you can find a company who has a super experienced master tech / owner, but they send a guy who has about a year experience or less and you're right, he/she can't do anything but the specific repetitive task they have been trained for, like changing a filter, vacuuming out a blower, checking the blinking indicator light, etc. No offense, but these undertrained employees work a few months at best an leave and then the next batch of totally inexperienced techs are sent out to homes.

So please don't take it personal. I'm not trying to eliminate anyone's job. Again, my industry faces this too. If people want to DIY their brand or ad campaign, they aren't my target customer or I can pitch them on things they can't DIY.

In terms of things like this TUVL-315 bulb, I've seen contractors want to charge near $500 for it. It's OEM can go as low as $145. That's 3X+ markup. A homeowner can order it and have it shipped to their home and all the product picking, boxing, shipping, delivering is all built in. I'm afraid my middle income family MUST look for ways to stay afloat. Every time I mow my yard I save $60. Every time I fertilize / grub control / weed control / disease control I save at least $75. If I rent an aerator I save $300. That's easily over $2K a year. not including equipment costs spread out over time. But I can sit on a mower. I can push a fertilizer spreader. I can guide an aerator. There really is no expertise involved.

And that's what this bulb change is. It's 6 screws and swapping bulbs. If the 24 VAC controller needs to have a multimeter hooked up, maybe I can do it, but maybe that is when I call in a pro and ask them to send me an EXPERIENCED guy. It's just reality for people trying to make their monthly budget to DIY things. When I grew up home improvement stores were almost non existent. It was ALL done by contractors.

I just put up a Blink security system from Amazon. Cost me $99 for the camera and like $10 for siding mount clips. I could have paid a home security expert around $3K for that. I don't have $3K. Is the Blink as good as a pro security system? Probably not. But I could get just the features I need at a price I could afford.

Please don't take it personally. We struggle too.

So please don't take it personal.

In terms of things like this TUVL-315 bulb, I've seen contractors want to charge near $500 for it. It's OEM can go as low as $145. That's 3X+ markup.

Naw, DIY has been going on even way back in 2000 when I was a young(er) whipper snapper. What economically was happening then? Dot com crash. So it's nothing new. I cast my opinion on it so people see my position that's it. If you DIY my opinion is simple -- don't call me with your problems for doing so.

I have policies in place to shield me from (empty wallet) kinds of problems. I am a fully licenced HVAC contractor, I am not sending you a tech. I have never done that. I have never used subs for anything. I install all my own equipment up to and including full system change out with zoning on a few occasions.

I typically don't install any bulb related contraption because they often become a run around sucking up time that no one wants to maintain which requires more money or lost hours running around. No one in the HVAC business is going to run around for no money because changing a light bulb is in the mind of a consumer "easy".

I get requests for these and inform people up front the requirements / tell them what is likely to happen if they don't commit to spending the constant money to maintain them.

It's like mowing a lawn. -- What do you mean it's going to cost $50 - $60 for a smallish lawn and you want to do it 3 times a month that's like nearly $200. -- They have a crew of 2 or 3 people and they are hear 20 minutes. --- So does it matter if they had 1 person and he was there 60 minutes? (he doing the work of 3 people)

But mowing the lawn isn't really a fair comparison to HVAC? Why? you need a helluva lot more stuff to do the job. Certainly not if your main role is to go around changing light bulbs, but we don't separate labor -- the bulk of what it's going to cost you. The part cost is a very small consideration.

The labor to push a lawn mower is not the same as being an HVAC contractor. Does a commercial lawn mower need to be licensed? I don't think so.

If I had a customer on a preventative maintenance contract the bulb change would probably be a bit cheaper, but not much because getting the bulbs / keeping them from getting broken and so on... way more to it than JUST -- changing a light bulb. Even though that is essentially what it is.

What do you mean it's going to cost hundreds of dollars to change a light bulb?

You can argue mark up, you can argue the sky is blue, red, purple --- what ever. It's primarily labor is what I am charging you for.

That labor is calculated for the "whole job" not the 5-30 minutes spent at your house changing the bulb(s). Now maybe it would be different if I had installed the device... because I then know how easy or not so easy it would be?

Easy? am I standing on rafters having to contort myself in the dark to avoid stepping thru the attic? (this is where I live 99% of HVAC systems are in the attic)

If I change this bulb on a system I've never been to, what other problems am I going to inherit? Fully knowing how other companies slam equipment in any old way? (Maybe they used to be your lawn mower guy?) who knows.

There are a good number of companies that use various gimmicks to make their systems they sell seem like a steal --- add in all kinds of extra stuff like bulbs, air scrubbers etc.

1 year, maybe 2 --- they stop doing much of anything. I can't tell you how many I've disabled over the years because? That's my take on the light bulb problem. -- you're never done changing the light bulb. 1 year is typically tops for most as to what the manufacturer recommends to be replaced because they lose effectiveness after about 12 months regardless if they burned out or not.

I'm at the tail end of my career, I make more money off assets I own so if you're in my area of Katy, Texas use me / don't use me. I am a capitalist and run a for profit company.

What I charge is fair to me, fair to you for all that is involved. I have been in HVAC for over 30 years. I know what I am doing.... so it's not up for discussion -- you are free to disagree and if so call someone else, not that difficult. I've fired customers before nothing new here. It's like all the retail theft in the world, they are telling people (who are worthless) never to come back or face trespass charges.

"It's primarily labor is what I am charging you for." That's true for you, but when HVAC companies markup the bulb 3X then that's where I have an issue. I'm willing to pay more than retail for the convenience and expertise of someone to do something advanced that requires training, but pay 3X the retail cost, that just feels like getting gouged.

Regardless, thanks for being a expert who took time to weigh in on my issue. Most people, especially who don't care for my thinking, wouldn't have taken the time to share their perspective.

Houzz is a place where anyone can ask home advice from anyone. My original post didn't target expert advice, just advice. You are indeed a seasoned expert and maybe I should have been smarter to ask other homeowners so it would not have been perceived as inconsiderate or argumentative. Again, sincerely appreciate your viewpoints. I just have limited funds to deal with this and other issues and have had very expensive, bad results with the "experts" in my area. I have a feeling if I were in your area and hired you the outcome would have been far above satisfactory.

"It's primarily labor is what I am charging you for." That's true for you, but when HVAC companies markup the bulb 3X then that's where I have an issue.

Ok, you want to assume that HVAC companies use some other logic?

Some will call it mark up. But the more people involved will too rachet up the cost of whatever it is. The other HVAC companies have staff salaries they have to pay. So labor vs mark up?

They have to charge, just as much as I would have to. Does it matter if we call it labor OR mark up? to me no. I call it what I call it to? avoid an argument.

Diagnostic fee vs Service fee: I already know what is wrong with the unit so I SHOULD NOT be charged a Diagnostic Fee. Well I don't charge diagnostic fee, I charge service fees. If you don't pay for service? No service for you come back in 2 years. (Seinfeld soup natzi reference)

Oh ok service fee makes sense. Of course it does. Well let's argue another angle. Remember I've been doing this over 30 years by this time. I already know I can not fix a flat wallet problem so if you have a flat wallet and that is your primary arguement you're in the spin cycle right now. (spin me wide round like a record baby - theme music reference) what the hell is a record that plays music?

To understand this maybe a wee bit better (maybe you'll argue something else too?)

I worked in HVAC for roughly 13 years before getting my HVAC contractors license. So during that 13 years I was under the whims of my boss or dispatch telling me to go here go there. I'd often "try" to schedule things in the mornings that were more productive things for me to do "that would actually pay me"

It got to the point where I was topped out in pay. You know the whole reason I go to work. Sure I like what I do, but I'm like you I want to make a better living.

So knowing how they (my former bosses) do things how do I being topped out in pay get paid for doing things better?

Do it all. My former bosses can't do that because the way the company was set up they just can't. See you think competition is there to undercut, in some cases sure but due to technical aspects not to mention over head costs no one is going to undercut for long if ever.

So why would I explain it this way: people want what they percieve as better. Remember the pandemic? cut your odds of exposure by limiting the number of people you come in contact with? One guy vs let's spin a roulette wheel and see who they send me?

I just have limited funds to deal with this and other issues and have had very expensive, bad results with the "experts" in my area.

The primary reason I exist, besides wanting what is best for me personally. I service the Katy, Texas area in case someone missed it. But as I said before a flat wallet problem is one I can not fix.

Looking at Step 4 of the APCO-X manual, do you have the ER/DER system or the SIP/DIP system?

• If it's ER/DER what are the black/white stripe and red/black voltages?
• Are you saying that the voltage delivered to the bulb from the "24 VAC Power Supply" is 3 volts? How do you know what the lamp voltage is supposed to be?
• Isn't it odd that the external transformer's output voltage for the ER/DER is 24 VAC and the APCO-X includes a "24 VAC Power Supply"?

Fresh-Aire probably charges a fortune for the ballast if it'll sell you one at all. Fortunately, you can probably find a matching one at Amazon or ebay for $20. Amazon has the lamp for $40.

"I looked and everything said this ballast is super proprietary with circuitry for this unit only."

Of course it's going to say that. Take a few pictures of the ballast including closeups of the specs. There are a bazillion ballasts; we just have to find the right one.

"The APCO-X is designed to accept 24VAC input..."

That's for the external 24-volt transformer that powers the ER/DER. You wrote that you have the SIP/DIP model which connects to a household circuit: 120 volts. You wrote that the ballast is defective.

Message from ballastshop.com in response to my inquiry:

• "Good morning, [wdccruise] -
• "Unfortunately, Fresh-Aire UV does not make TUVP-UNVL widely available in distribution, so direct replacements can be tricky. We suggest you reach out to Fresh-Aire UV/Air-Care support for a direct part number or distributor since compatibility is critical. Sorry we could not be of more assistance. Thank you for the opportunity.
• "Respectfully,
• "BallastShop Support
• "support@ballastshop.com
• "BallastShop.com"