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Contractor fail on bathroom floor tile installation twice

last month
last modified: last month

My sisters and I are dealing with a Home Improvement Contractor in Ulster County, NY, who twice failed to install tile on an open floor bathroom for our elderly mother. The tile is uneven and the grout is horrible. The contractor says it is beautiful. As per the warranty in the contract which indicates fix if poor workmanship for a year after completion. We have withheld final payment until it is fixed (but it needs to get fixed by someone else - this contractor's team hasn't got a clue). Two other tilers and grout rep said the grout and tile need to be redone. The contractor tried to blame the tile and the grout manufacturers. The contractor has filed a lien against my mother's house for the remainder of the project payment. What do you think of this situation?








Comments (13)

  • PRO
    last month

    I’d be way more worried about the waterproofing underneath, and quality of the infrastructure build. Probably a PVC liner flat on the floor with scres through the curb. It always is on jobs like this. Buy crappy quality tile and hire poorly qualified cheap tile guys and that is what you get. Perfect storm. https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/find-certified-tile-installers

  • last month

    Thanks for comments. The tile was far from cheap. It is American made with the highest rating for slip resistance. It is very high quality tile.

  • last month
    last modified: last month

    You exhibit a lack of knowledge on industry standards, and need to bone up if you are not going to end up losing in court. The lien will be upheld if it goes the distance. Unless you have other issues than this? With waterproofing? https://tcnatile.com/products/publications/2025-tcna-handbook-for-ceramic-glass-and-stone-tile-installation/

    Inconsistency in spacing with penny rounds on mesh mosaics is never going to be field corrected by an installer. That is a manufacturing issue. Not an install issue. Buy better quality materials. A higher end installer could be paid extra to burn those off the mesh and single set them. You are dealing with basic competency, not high end skills. Lippage looks like it meets TCNA 1/32 limits. Grout is never flush with the tile. It is always below the level of the tile face. Grout is a little bit washed out in spots, but regrouting with the same epoxy should fix that, and should be on the table as a solution to that issue, after payment. Epoxy is the only grout that can bond with itself without having most of the existing grout removed.

  • last month

    The quality of the tiles is not the issue. The tiles are high quality American made. The contractor reused tiles from the first failed install (and with remnant mortar)- hardly the industry standard for tile installation. The floor was never fully cleaned, the waterproofing was torn (and not fully documented as fixed), and the only offer for fix was a cosmetic one to make the color of the grout more uniform.

  • last month

    Sorry, but those are not good quality tiles, even if US manufactured. US can make junk just as well as any other company. The spacing and your little arrows show that. If those arrows upset you, look in the mirror. You need to own that part.

  • last month
    last modified: last month

    Nope - tiles on the backing were perfectly spaced. Tiler was unable to place correctly. And tiler clearly did not use spacers. Contractor knew well in advance of job which tiles were selected.

  • PRO
    last month

    You seem to know it all. Except you don’t. You do not use spacers with mosaics tiles. They are pre spaced as a sheet form with glue dots or mesh. Glue dots preferred. The tiles sit where they were factory placed by the glue. You run a laser line to adjust the sheets meeting with maybe just a T.


    Sloppy basic installs still meeting industry standards, still meet industry standards. I suggest you become familiar with them. You money was bet on the wrong horse. You are not serving your relatives well here by getting a lien placed on the home. The home cannot be sold or transferred with a lien.That has big implications for later life care and liquidating assets. In some locations, the home can be foreclosed on and sold to pay the lien.



  • last month
    last modified: last month

    Agree that the tiles are spaced on the sheets, but the tiler didn’t space the sheets (from one to the next) on the first installation. Then, on the second installation, removed the backing when they tried to remove the mortar. The contractor told his guys to use spacers on the floor tile & leveler. Are you saying the contractor was wrong in yet another way?

  • last month

    Sheet mounted mosaics would, at first glance, appear to be easy to install, but they are the hardest tiles to install correctly, specially by an average, or below average, tile installer. Now make them round mosaic tiles, and you have made the job even harder to get done correctly.

    Does the tile mosaic come in a square shape? Square (or rectangular) with less grout will be easier to install and line up.

    I have used many mosaics over the years, and even with really good tile installers, I am prepared to accept that some of the spacing will rarely be 100% perfect. Your guy will never get it right.

  • PRO
    last month
    last modified: last month

    A warranty for workmanship is void if the work is not paid for. You already got your one free tearout and redo, an there is no warranty on the second until the job is fully paid. It appears that you need to hire the quadruple cost people next time, if you are going to be quadruple critical, with higher than industry standards. Many people prefer to intenseky screen thrir installers on the front end, by viewing their work, and screening them about their certificatiinscertifications, processes, and training. They font hire cheap and try to manipulate them into doing better work than they are capable of doing. Industry stsndardd sre not tge highest bar. So if you want better, that is on you, on the front end. https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/find-certified-tile-installers

    When work that you don’t like meets industry standards, then you have no recourse but to pay for it. You can hire an inspector to write a report referencing TCNA and ANSI standards if you like, but that is 2K+ out of pocket, plus travel costs. And it will not say what you want it to say. And this is why the contractor will prevail in the dispute.

    The ANSI A108. 02 standards say that acceptable lippage for tiles with a grout joint width of 1/16" to less than 1/4" is 1/32" plus the allowable inherent warpage of the tile. If the grout joint width is 1/4" or greater, then the allowable warpage is 1/16" plus the allowable inherent warpage of the tile.

    Heck, take the training to be able to legally inspect for yourself, after you have 10 years in the industry learning all the Handbook methods. https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/courses/ceramic-tile-inspection

  • last month
    last modified: last month

    From years on this discussion board, I have learned that round mosaics are one of the most difficult to install and have look good, even with a fairly decent installer. I have avoided them for this reason.

    I'm a total perfectionist in many areas of life, but just have to let things go when I am dealing with contractors because very few of them are. Those that are perfectionists usually won't work on my singular project. They are booked up with GC's engaged on multi-million dollar renovations. So I have learned to just accept that despite me shelling out good money, things won't be perfect. They need to be safe, functional, not cause other problems, and not look terrible. I don't think these look terrible. But, I would be concerned about waterproofing. That, however, is addressed in the contract phase. You write into the contract what you want done and require pictures be taken at every step of the process.


    Thanks for the links to certified installers. I need a backsplash done and will look one up using that.

  • last month

    May I interrupt with a question:

    I've been here long enough to see many examples of spacing issues on the mosaic sheets, especially with penny rounds.

    With this install, however, some of the pictures, especially of round two, look like there is pretty significant lippage/difference in heights of tile (probably due to uneven thinset?)

    This seems to me to be more indicative of problematic installation and more worthy of customer concern than the spacing issues.

    Am I correct in that?

  • PRO
    last month
    last modified: last month

    A tile install has an allowable level of lippage, per industry standards. The OP has provided zero documentation of the measured lippage, proper waterproofing underneath, or anything else that is technically more important than some irregular tile spacing. They evidently just want to lose their mom’s house so she can move in with them.