It would make more sense to loose the hall closet at the end of the hall in order to move that door to the upper left bedroom as far up as possible (shrinking the size of that room). Then make that a dedicated quest room with a very small but functional bath. Then, this would allow you to create a much larger shared bath at the bottom which would serve the 2 girls bedrooms. The girls bedrooms should have 2 sinks with generous counter space along with a a separate toilet room and if you do a shower let it have rain glass or a shower curtain (so both girls can use the space and still have a bit of privacy for various functions.

I don’t have time tonight to draw something up - sorry.

But, I have to say I didn’t vote. I don’t think any of the schemes best utilize the space you have.

If you can find time to wait to do it right I’d ask that you post a plan showing where the existing windows are on the original plan along the left side.

The windows are all on the plan. For guests, they either use the downstairs bedroom which has a full bath or bedroom 3. The closet at the end of the hallway isn’t drawn exactly to scale because it’s a funky little area that we’ve made some modifications to along the way to maximize the space. But it’s definitely not big enough for a doorway.

I voted for number 3 and thought you should use a pocket door near the window and move the toilet next to the shower.

@Karenseb - thank you! The appeal to the pocket door at the other end is that the wall void to accommodate pocket portion is already behind the bedroom door and therefore not used for anything else. If it was at the window end, it would limit my ability to hang something on the wall between the bedroom and bathroom. Just by thoughts when thinking thru all these.

@Mark - Fair enough and usually how I roll. However, in this instance we had to see what was possible within the walls and plumbing. So we opted to tear it out, tape off options and walk thru them. Thank you for your input.

Original:

- Consider making the linen closet a bit shallow. 18" is deep enough for linens, and you'll appreciate that couple inches in Bedroom 1's closet. Also maximize the width of the linen closet's door -- easier to reach things in the corner and a larger back-of-the-door for storage. Similiarly, maximize Bedroom 1's closet door; let's just go ahead and say, Maximize all closet doors.

- I definitely like that you've worked in another hall closet. No one ever says, I just have too much storage.

- Like that the two bathrooms "back up to one another", as this is a money-saver. Fewer water-containing walls means fewer places leaks can occur.

- What's the extra space between the toilet and the shower in the master? And you'll hate having no storage /no countertop at the sink.

- Hate the hall bathroom layout -- so much space for the duplicate sinks, yet so little storage where you actually need it. And the toilet, linen closet and tub are crammed into a small space.

- Consider where your shower towels will be hung for each bathroom. For several options, I see no obvious choice -- remember you can't hang towels on the back of a pocket door.

Some of the above remains true for these other options.

Option 2:

- No to a pocket door on the bathroom. The question isn't, Will it break? It's, When will it break, and will we have to pay a pro to fix it? Especially so close to a shower, this is a mis-step.

- Do you have a bathtub somewhere in the house?

- Single sinks are always best; more storage space /more countertop rules.

Option 3:

- This master bathroom is all empty space /all the major players crammed in together. You'll hate that smaller shower and the toilet crammed in together.

- No to moving the water-items to the lower wall. You gain nothing.

Option 4:

- The toilet and shower work out better in these locations.

@Theresa Peterson - THANK YOU for all the detailed explanation. All of your issues with the original were my complaints as well. As for the original linen closet-it is actually space over the stairway leading to the basement, so the depth is what it is no matter what function I give the space. I originally wanted to try to place the toilet there, but I don’t have the clearance needed for proper plumbing of a toilet. Shower yes, toilet no. Bedroom 1’s closet is maximized and are actually bifold doors, they just weren’t an option in my software. 🤣 The hall closet was used for coats, but we have another closet available for them and wanted to gain the space in the bathrooms if it was helpful. Extra space between toilet and shower in the eh suite…there was nothing. For whatever reason they just didn’t center the toilet between the tub and vanity. And a 36” vanity is impossible for pretty much anything teen girl related. That coupled with the fact that the vanity drawers were on the right hand side as well as the door opening into the vanity meant you couldn’t access the drawers with the door open = even more stuff on the already too small counter space.

The hall bath was the bane of my existence for every single reason you mentioned. Too much counter/cabinet space, 2 sinks not needed. The toilet wasn’t centered under the window and it was crammed up against the closet making it hard to access. The window was half in and half out of the shower leaving little options for shower curtain, etc. It was just all janky. Plumbing has to be redone anyway, so it’s all out and a complete blank slate now. I’m ok with the cost of having plumbing on separate walls if it means my bathrooms are more useful. Towels will go on hooks somewhere, I’ll figure that part out later i guess once i come up with a base plan. Currently, they just go straight to a floor or hamper….again, teen girls here.

We have an entire primary suite on the other end of the house that we added on about 6 years ago. It serves us very well! Has a large tub that is used nightly and a huge walk in shower, 93” double vanity, etc.

I currently have Option 3 taped out on the floors and you’re right. I’m struggling with the clearance between the toilet and the shower. It’s currently measuring at 24”. So I’m rethinking other possibilities there.

I originally wanted to have a modified Jack and Jill but instead of sharing toilet/shower space, I wanted to only share a larger shower room. Then keep vanity and toilet separate in the other 2 bathrooms. I’ve not been able to find any examples of that type setup to work from however. And as far as resell value, for reference, like I said, we have our large primary bathroom as well as another full bathroom along with a bedroom in the finished basement. So it would be a 5 bedroom/3.5 bath house. But in all honesty, i don’t see us selling anytime soon if at all for decades to come.

It's always 11th hour if you are chained to a contractor trying to make their money at the expense of your design. The choices seem unnecessarily complicated - I don't see anything wrong with the original design for the Guest, and the 2nd bath only the toilet is in clear view. I would (have when I had the chance) just kept it simple:

• Keep the Guest Bath as is, no need for a pocket door. You can even keep the Hall Closet depending on how big you want the shower and vanity.
• For the 2nd Bath, in order to keep a full-size window and move the toilet, then the bathroom must flip. That also allows the door to get farther from the public part of the house. By extending the depth of shower with a bench you prevent the drain from crossing the stair trimmer below. Then moving Bed3 door to be more private too and work with a better bed layout.

@3onthetree - Thank you for your input! I so appreciate your points and am making notes for some additional changes over the weekend.

First, my contractor is AWESOME! I am, in no way, lining his pockets over the design. The plumbing all needed replaced anyway. It's 50 years old and not functioning properly. We were already replacing some of the drain pipes to the main trunk line so reworking it all was perfectly fine and perfect opportunity. We are also completely redoing the basement below so it's open access top to bottom, knock it all out at once! We have altered many of the spaces in our home to fit our needs (some genius and others quirky) but they work great for us!. While other's may not always agree with them, we're not worried about resell value for decades to come. He's actually just waiting on me to decide what I want to continue work upstairs.

The guest bath (the one off the bedroom) is simply too small and not functional. The vanity was only 36" wide with the drawers on the right hand side. The door opens directly into the vanity leaving the drawers inaccessible if the door is open. Which means everything gathers on the counter and its simply too small. This is a 17 year old girl we're talking about....lots of products! Eliminating the coat closet and increasing the length of the bathroom was definitely the first step. I still just don't like the door opening into the vanity at that room depth.

For the hall bath...the toilet at the window and the tub at the window were awful!! Closet access, shower curtain - just none of it worked. And I despised looking directly in on the toilet and it not being centered with the window. It was just an eyesore. I considered moving the plumbing wall to the lower side which does mean the door has to shift. I'd love to have the doorway farther down the hall for privacy. However, my main concern was the door placement in relation to the bedroom across the hall. The hallway is only 35" wide and we frequently need to use the space across the hall to pivot furniture when moving it in or out of the rooms. BUT!! - now that you mention also moving that bedroom door down, I'm digging it! We will already be doing some sheetrock removal on that side of the hall to replace duct work so this is again, perfect timing! And, I agree - the bed placement would be so much better! That room has always been so frustrating to arrange. So, THANK YOU!!! This is exactly what I'm looking for...fresh ideas that I haven't thought of! I also like the idea of the shower/toilet separated with a doorway from the front. I hadn't thought of that either! Much appreciated!

Oh, and I'm attaching a pic of the disastrous end of the hall bath for your viewing pleasure!

I'm still not clear on how you use your house. The twin girls share a room and it's Bedroom 1? The twin girls have their own rooms and they use the hall bath? Is Bedroom 1 the primary ensuite or is that separate from what is shown?

@thinkdesignlive - For reference, It’s a 70’s basement rancher. This hallway is the original 3 bedrooms and 2 baths. We added on a master suite about 8 years ago off the back at the other end of the house. It’s perfect!

We have 2 daughters. The oldest now lives in bedroom 1 with the en suite bath. The other lives in Bedroom 2 (it’s the next largest bedroom) and uses the hall bath. She has always used our primary bath for bathing however because her tub hasn’t held water since we moved in. Plus she loves my big tub!

They’re not twins. They’re 3 years apart in age. The oldest will, sadly, be flying the coop next year for college and I anticipate the younger will take over her bedroom/bathroom when that happens.

Bedroom 3 has simply been a catch all for 6 years. Part guest room, part hubbys office, part home gym, part storage unit. Downstairs we have a finished basement with a full apartment.

Heres the layout with the green being the area in discussion now.

Just want to say Jack and Jills can be frustrating when doors are locked keeping the other person from getting in after the previous occupant left. I'd rather have separate bathrooms.

I did like how 3onthetree did the shower and toilet in it's own room on the hall bath.

I still like a pocket door on the ensuite since the door will not block the window and you can still hang pictures on that wall with a pocket door.

I think I would rearrange the room to put the bed about 30 inches from the window wall and then put a desk or dresser on the wall with the shower.

You could even fit a small chest between the entrance and closet doors,

Ok that makes sense now. Don’t know how I turned your girls into twins lol. I like Karen’s layout above.

I really like the idea of moving the doorway to Bedroom 3 further down the hall as well as the
doorway to the hall bath. I’m ok with losing a window in there if I’m better off to split them vertically instead of horizontally. Playing with that today!

There is a lot of economy with the plumbing wall staying back to back. You are better off just adding a pocket door to give this whole bedroom side more privacy.

Edited to add - a pocket door at the end of the hallway by the entry/living space.

Like this….consider shallow vanity cabinets to increase floor space and a sola tube light in the hall would be nice.

Yes! I have several places that I would love to add solatubes to! Do you have them? I’m worried it will look like a spot light in the room rather that diffuse daylight.

We have two in our studio behind our freestanding garage. They don’t create a spot light effect - here is the outside shot of the roof. I’ll grab an inside shot soon…

We added a solatube to an interior bathroom and hall in our last house, and loved them! So much I added a second one over the stairs leading to that hall, which I should have done in the first place. We did the hall and stairs ones with an integrated light, and the bath one had an integrated fan. We never had to turn on the lights until it was dark out. Not like a spotlight at all, just diffused light. Do it!

I see you are now asking about a Jack-n-Jill bath in another thread. You do not have the room for a true Jack-n-Jill (accessed from only 2 bedrooms). But you do have room for 2 people to use a bathroom at the same time, as shown in my "optional" scheme. In my experience, 2 girls/siblings would rather not share a double sink/mirror anyway, but they can stage the shower vs sink.

However, you state 1 girl has the (former) Master so if you are remodeling to your specific family it seems you don't need the shared bath. A shared bath would be beneficial if Bed2/Bed3 were kids, and the (former) Master was a Master/Grandparent/Guest room. But then with that, for ROI the shared bath should have a tub/shower combo (regardless if you have a tub in your Master addition on the other side of house).

Just a couple more comments:

- Karen's layout is too constricting into the shower. The extra linen is not purposeful, it is just added because it was a dead wall forced by moving the shower to the opposite wall.

- You do not have to use the existing Linen closet over the stair. It can just become dead space behind a wall. That would force a typical layout where the shower or tub/shower were along the exterior wall, which would require the window to be changed to a transom or removed completely.

- The reason toilets back-to-back is beneficial is so you have a single 4" vent stack to roof and very short distance to each toilet. However, in your existing house, toilets aren't back-to-back so either each toilet has it's own vent or the piping below the floor allows them to connect together. Here, what is more concerning than keeping toilets back-to-back is if you will require any soffits in the basement ceiling from a new layout.

- Master bath: a swing door interfering with a drawer theoretically is not an issue as the door would be closed first. Same with the door blocking the window, it is not for the bedroom but for the bathroom.

- You state you need the Linen closet. If you do overtake it with a shower, then you can keep the Hall Closet for linen (1/2 coats, 1/2 linen). The Master bath, since it is no longer a Master, would not suffer being the same size it is now.

@3onthetree - My curiosity of a "modified" Jack and Jill with just a shared shower space came up a few years ago. Honestly, at that time, the budgeting was quite a bit limiting and I was just thinking if that would save some money with only having 1 shower to complete. I'm one of these people who LOVES when a house has quirky ways to fit a family's need. I like seeing what ideas others have or what can be done to answer the challenges presented by a home's bones. I love looking at floorplans and all of the suggestions and edits that people come up with. I hadn't seen any set ups like that, so I posted to see if anyone had any they had seen/done that they could share. Or even if maybe it has some other name that I wasn't aware of and I'd been using the wrong terms to search it with. Everyone always complains about Jack and Jills and the lack of privacy, but I could totally see a shared shower space only working great for some setups. The way I see it, if you dont have a tankless water heater, really only one shower in a home is being used at a time anyway. And in my particular case, I'm a mom of two girls thinking this would be so much more convenient to have them share shampoos/conditioners/body washes/etc. Basically, I would only have one shower to stock and I wouldn't think any girl mom would complain about that! I just couldn't see our space in any layout other than what it was so I needed to have the room cleared of all the walls to be able to tape it off, walk thru it, and visualize it set up differently than what it has always been.

I agree that the linen closet in the hall bath opposite the shower seems like an after thought...just a towering box standing there. But it is storage that we definitely use to the max. It doesn't necessarily have to be accessed thru the hall bathroom, but it does need to be easily accessible to the entire home - so from the hallway or the hall bath, either one would work. I also know that space doesn't necessarily have to be utilized and could be walled off, but I don't want to give up any space in a house where we already use every inch to store something. If the other side of that closet wasn't in such an cramped space in my living room, I would flip the stairway completely. That would put the entrance to the stairs at that end but it's in a corner pretty close to the hearth. Also, I'm certain my husband and contractor would both kill me if I even thought to mention that idea.

Each toilet had its own plumbing set up. There is ample space below the bathrooms to accommodate all the plumbing and also located in the unfinished portion of the basement, so no issues there.

Agreed that theoretically the door/window/drawer situation isn't a big deal on paper and in pictures. But in daily use and function it was a nightmare. Trust me, if it wasn't, I would have kept the coat closet in the hallway and simply updated the bathroom cosmetically. Truthfully, the bathroom door to that bathroom is hardly ever closed. When she wants privacy, the bedroom door itself is closed. I just want to make sure that I am not missing any ground breaking ideas someone may have that also likes to chime in on space planning ideas.

I really liked the idea you had about adding a door between the toilet/shower and the vanity space of the hall bath. I'm a person of symmetry so trying to center up the window there has been my main concern that Im trying to work around. By adding a door and making that it's own little room, the center window may eliminate itself as an issue! Moving the window, I don't think is an option as my house is all brick and the brick is no longer available. We've been out of town so tonight is my time to go in there and play around a little more with my measuring tape and see how I might be able to carry on with that idea! I may also play with some ideas of splitting the rooms vertically and/or taking the linen closet access to the hallway.

Thank you again for all of your thoughts! Very helpful!

Also, all of the homes in the neighborhood that I grew up in had a hall bath with just a vanity and toilet. It connect ed by a doorway to the “master” bath which was a full bath. We all never thought a thing of it, it was just home to us and always worked for us. So I guess that’s why I was also curious of the shared shower space concept. ☺️