Different climate here, so I am not much help with advice on timing pruning. Just remember to have your pruner in top shape and sharp enough to make clean cuts.

Moses.

I always try to remember to prune more than I think I should. I have never regretted pruning too much, only too little.

Also get some battery pruners, they make pruning season so much easier. There’s a thread about them here:

Battery Pruner (thread)

Leave some space between canes, and try to prune them so the canes are outward facing. Here’s an example of some perfectly pruned roses at a public garden near my house

Immaculately clean pruners.

Someone once took 'cuttings' by tearing off stems of my roses. None became infected (and that surprised me). But (some same bushes) I had spread black spot to where I had pruned them after pruning roses with all but terminal black spot.

Now, about our hands: our hands get older and the joints less healthy. Buy big impressive loppers to handle older wood of greater diamaters. My beloved secateurs can not cut three year old wood, nor thicknesses more than an inch and a half. That's why loppers are important.

I have had problems with sun scald on some year old canes of hybrid teas. Prune with the sun at your back. You won't see the diffrerence in sun damage from the shaded side of the rose canes.

Don't let someone help who cuts canes back without checking for growth four feet from the ground. Especially someone who is colorblind who doesn't see shades of green particularly well.

Signing out now from voice of experience.

My biggest advice especially if you have lots of roses is not to overthink it . every pruning season otto and sons posts videos of their workers going to town with electric hedgr clippers and guess what .. their gardens are spectacular .

so when i get in over my head i remind myself that its not that serious and they will bloom profusely despite any mistakes i make !

But on that note Jackie is right about the older roses !! i have some and i just leave them be. little clean up here and there and thats all .

sometimes i do wonder .. do you let new smaller plants go a season to help them grow or do you also prune those ? i have some small ones from a couple vendors that havent taken off yet

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) , I wish my lawn-gardener could see those perfectly pruned roses.

I would let the smaller ones grow to gain strength, Lilyfinch. Don't prune them.

Stand back, apply a critical eye, trust your own judgement over any so-called rules (which are there to be broken) and then just go for it!

I find my roses tell me what they need. For example, if a rose grows tall and tends to flower mostly at the top, I will prune back harder, especially the canes at the front to encourage better bloom coverage lower down. If it develops a nice, rounded shape all by itself, it may just need a light trim.

The old roses that I have and that cope with my climate are of the repeat blooming portland, damask, bourbon and polyantha classes. I take exactly the same approach to pruning them as I do with the moderns. Here, they don’t seem to mind a good prune where necessary.

I'm absolutely loving these comments! This is exactly the kind of esoteric information I'm looking for...the things you don't "read in the books".

Moses...very good advice. I think a lot of beginning rose growers don't even have great tools, and don't think about sharpening. I used to attack my first rose bushes with very old loppers dug out of an ancient shed, which sure did my elderly hybrid teas no favors :)

BenT...such good advice, especially helpful for people in mild climates where they never experience dieback on their roses from harsh winters. Thank you for including a picture...I think most new rose growers would be shocked at the idea of pruning so hard! When do you start the hard pruning? The first year? Or do you wait until the rose has matured to say, three years old?

stillann..what a great tip about the sun scald. I rarely have it in my part sun garden, but my friends who face full west often get it on their hybrid teas. Yes, so many things we can do to make pruning easier as we age. I can no longer work for hours with pruners, my hands get too tired and sore. Loppers are so helpful, and nice quality very sharp ones especially. I never thought about colorblind helpers, but that is a very important consideration. You can tell the age of a cane by its color first and foremost! We have to remember to teach that to new-to-pruning helpers and volunteers.

jacqueline....so true, knowing which rose you have or at least which tyoe of rose is so helpful. If people can wait, I tell them to let a rose bloom first and identify it before doing any serious pruning. This is especially important for people like me who buy old houses and inherit unknown roses. I had a bed filled with hybrid teas and one bushy looking shrub rose which turned out to be 'La Marne'. Imagine if I had pruned my 5x5 LM the same way I pruned the hybrid teas?! Thankfully, I found these forums and identified my old rose before I pruned it.

lilyfinch....you are so right, especially for people who are planting new rose gardens and trying to figure out pruning. You don't have to overthink it too much if you feel intimidated. I believe the Portland Rose Garden also cuts their roses all down quickly, and to pretty much one height. Regarding baby roses.....I recently read a book from the 90's by an English rosarian John Scarman (who worked with David Austin) called 'Gardening with Old Roses'. He addresses the issue of how to prune young roses, and I have never heard this advice before, but I found it very interesting...

"When establishing young roses, there is a temptation to let them get to their full height in one season. It is important to resist this temptation! When the rose is winter pruned it should be allowed to gain no more than 6 inches in height. This will allow the development of strong branches, and a dense framework for further years. The rose should be pruned in this way (approximately halfway between the flowering height and the regular pruning height) until it has reached its final height."

So, he advocates for early pruning to establish a dense framework....very interesting! I have never done this, but I have been tempted. Especially for band size old roses like Hybrid Perpetuals and Bourbons, and any rose grown from a cutting. I have been too afraid to hard prune my young roses! Also in the book he talks about "stopping" your roses, which is basically pinching the tips to keep them from forming octopus canes. So interesting!

applepie....wouldn't it be great if there was a school for landscapers where they could learn basic rose care?

Sheila...your advice is they way I have always done it too! Then I read this book by John Scarman and now I am trying to work up the courage to prune all my very expensive rose babies that I ordered online and seem so fragile :) Maybe I will do an experiment with a rose I'm not afraid to lose.

Nollie....that is the best advice...the "rules" are made to be broken when it comes to rose growing! Part of what makes our gardens beautiful is the unique ways we cultivate them. I remember being a new rose grower and feeling very afraid of everything, even though I was an experienced gardener. Roses bring out the emotions in us:)

Rosylady,

You make a good point, I think I like to wait until a rose has established before a significant spring pruning. I think you know when a rosebush has found its footing and starts producing basals and/or significant new growth. For some plants that can be just months, for others up to 2 years.

Rosylady, re the advice given by Scarman/Austin, bear in mind that this would likely apply to grafted roses, since virtually all those sold in the UK and Europe are. I don’t know if this would also apply also to tiny own-root bands or your own cuttings, that don’t have the extra vigour provided by a rootstock??

Peter Beales in his Classic Roses book, also advocates hard pruning (4-6” is mentioned elsewhere) all roses immediately after planting:

I have done this with some vigorous modern varieties and I think it does encourage bushiness over leggy growth, but tend to tread more lightly with old roses and twiggy growers. I haven’t noticed any difference in new basal production between those I have pruned hard on planting and those I have not. I suspect that’s more down to a combination of the individual variety, plus care and cultivation practices.

In my garden, at times after a cold winter, the canes are not alive all the way up, so they get pruned down to new growth. Recently we've seen the local rabbits have taken an interest and seem to love the roses to munch on. Last year I know they didn't touch my Julia Child because it had canes 4ft high to being the season and they were alive to the tips and I had a larger than usual bush. This year, I see they've stripped the bark off the canes and I'm going to to take them down to below that damage. I can't see how low it goes yet, with a foot of snow still on the ground.

Use Japanese steel ARS purners. They are the best pruners I've ever used and stay sharp. They are used for Bonsai, too. Diane

Diane, I bought one of those ARS pruners some time ago, based on your recommendation. I haven’t been sorry, and in fact, bought a second one last year. They are my favorites, of course. But this spring I’ll be trying out one of these amazing battery pruners Moses has been telling us about. I’ll see if I like it. I need all the help I can get to be efficient with my pruning time. I have more than ever to prune this year!

In my temporate zone I do a hard prune but not concerned about outward facing buds . there will be buds on both sides anyway. I clear out canes in the center and call it good. I need to look into the battery prunners. I am trying to do a few a day and not over do it

BenT....per your recommendation, I have been pruning my roses harder than ever! I am having no fear:)

Nollie....thank you for sharing that excerpt from Peter Beales. I think it would be especially true of planting a rose that had been in its pot for some time and had some size on it. Also, some of my band roses are two very tall, spindly branches. If I'm feeling brave, I could hard prune those too. I just pruned a newly planted bed of roses...it was planted last fall. They were potted roses, so on the small side but still full plants. I pruned them all quite low. I will be interested to see what happens. They are all easy to find varieties, so I'm not worried if one doesn't make it.

prairiemoon....It's too bad the rabbits have discovered your garden. The same thing is happening here. I think I may have to install rabbit fencing around each rose bed. I do try to protect new roses, and that does help. If they start stripping the bark on established roses, that would be tough to deal with! I hope you're able to fend them off in your garden:)

Diane....The ARS pruners are amazing!!! So much less expensive than Felcos, and such great quality. They make beautiful cuts on rose canes. And you don't have to worry about losing a $75 pair of pruners accidentally thrown in the yard waste bin.

judi....I have battery powered pruners...I have the Dewalt brand, They are very heavy and not as easy to finesse around tight rose bushes. When you get yours, get the smallest, lightest weight ones you can find.

Kristine....The Portland Rose Gardens doesn't prune to an outside bud either...they just don't have time. I like to do it on some roses, especially if I want a branch in a certain spot. Others just get chopped!

Here are some pictures of the rose pruning in my garden. We are halfway done! I have about 500 roses, many of which are climbers which take a long time to prune and train.

I would love to see pics of your pruned roses!

Your garden is picture perfect, Rosylady!
What are the cute little shrubs in front of the roses in the first pic? Doesn’t look like boxwood… or is it?

Thank you, Judi! Those little shrubs are germander. I love how they look in the winter time. Here is a pic from June:

I have so much boxwood in my garden...it's nice to have another type of green, ball shaped accent plant to add more texture. (the rose pictured is 'Bolero')

Roselady,

What a spectacle your garden is!

What is the name of the columnar deciduous tree, well pruned, behind the urn in photo #1?

Moses.

Your germander bushes are so, so pretty! I have one but it grows very large and now I’m wondering if yours is a different kind or if you just keep yours pruned in that shape and keep them small. Mine is very silvery and gets blue flowers in the winter.

Nolie Said: Stand back, apply a critical eye, trust your own judgement over any so-called rules (which are there to be broken) and then just go for it!

Sheila Said: "I would let the smaller ones grow to gain strength, Lilyfinch. Don't prune them."

Roselady, your garden looks fabulous. It would seem that you have already very much found your gardening "chi" and "flow" as a master gardener: By which I mean you are acting in harmony with the environment and your plants to achieve a serene and beautiful garden. "Thou art that" (Sanskrit: Tat Tvam Asi).

Your image featuring your Bolero roses is stunning. I planted about eight plants of Bolero in various parts of the Gardens two years ago because of the excellent reputation it has. Thus far, this will be year three, they are nowhere near as gorgeous as yours, but then, as I will relate below, patience is a virtue, and climate, culture and location play an important role as well. Pruning is only one part of the whole, and that is as close as I can come to a rule.

I offer my own observations and insights to your original pruning question in the spirit of sharing, no rules, or rose "dogma". More than thirty-five years on, I am still very much learning and adapting to the environment and to the plants themselves. I prefer observations, study, guidelines and adaptation, to rules. My primary rose growing mentor has been Mother Nature.

I very much agree with both of the comments posted by Nolli and Sheila highlighted above. In the garden I curate at Summerland, I have had to rejuvenate 30 year old badly neglected plants and subsequently decided not to prune them for the most part, except for dead wood at first. I wanted as many leaves as they could put on and then gave them a lot of cultural TLC and left them for three years before a harder pruning. The result was new canes from very old root wood and huge healthy plants with a lot bloom. An experiment from which I learned a lot. Old root wood needs to be cut back very hard with loppers and pruning saws. No jagged stumps should be left.

The image above was taken year two into rejuvenation pruning.

Above, 2021, four years later after we began rejuvenation.

Now these were old hardy Canadian bred shrub roses, so the age and what type of rose you are growing is part of the "apply a critical eye and trust your judgement" equation.

With young plants, especially bare roots, I agree with Sheila it is best not to prune them hard until they have put on some roots and show good growth. This is especially true for bare root plants in cooler climates. "First year they sleep, second year they creep, third year the leap", is an adage that I think is very insightful. The vigour of the cultivar too is a part of the equation, too often, folk want "instant gratification", a rose that blooms in year one all summer long. That is a bit of a tall order for a shrubby plant that takes time to put on roots before it reaches maturity, so patience is another rose growing virtue.

And then as Jerry has famously said: "Location, location, location". I have grown roses in three very different climates, 4b very cold winters, humid summers, 6a unpredictable winters, hot dry summers, and 8a, temperate wet winters, mediterranean type summers (PNW climate). So there are a huge number of variables to consider. What type of climate you grow in, which rose varieties you love to grow, own root or grafted, etc.

Once bloomers, versus remontant cultivars, also different: once blooming OGRs and species after bloomiong, remontant roses in late winter or spring.

I was up at the ornamental gardens yesterday on a glorious late winter day and pruned some of the biggest shrubs in the Canadian Heritage Rose Garden. Seven grafted "Party Hardy" shrubs that are now four years in the ground. They have grown to about 5 feet plus and bloomed like gangbusters last summer. They have grown very well, very fast and are obviously happy with their location. We have given them a moderate pruning for the past two years, perhaps one third off the top and taken out weak lower growth. But they are getting too large for where I planted them. So this year (5), I am pruning them hard, to about 2plus feet leaving only new main canes. Many of the other roses in this display will get similar treatment this spring. Here are two images, before and after:

This photo above, doesn't really give a proper perspective, the plant is about 5 to 6 feet tall. The image is taken from perhaps 8 feet back. The pruned version below is about 2.5 feet tall, the image is from much closer up. About three quarters of growth was taken off. I expect the plant to put on a lot of new secondary growth that will bloom profusely in June and then more long canes later which we will summer prune. Of course, the plant is the master, I am the servant, so we shall see if I am correct.

As far as rules, I am starting to prune in early February this year, about 4 or 5 weeks earlier than normal for here. All but one of my volunteers are still hibernating, so 25 roses or so down, 425 plus to go. The early start is due to climate change, it's a real thing, we have had a very warm winter, the second one after two extreme polar vortex winters that saw temperatures to -28 C

( 4B ). Those two winters pruned many of the less hardy plants, even some English Roses very hard without our help. The roses grew back very well last summer in response, perhaps with less bloom than normal though. This winter is an 8a temperature equivalent, 5 to 9 degrees above normal, no ice on the lakes, little precipitation through January and February Thus far; go figure?

For those of you who are having abnormally cold winters out east, I would advise you to be very careful with excessive pruning on winter damaged plants. Remove just the dead and injured wood. I expect that they will need many leaves and no doubt a lot of TLC to recover this summer.

So as Nolie says, rules are made to be broken or ammended depending on what is going on with your own plants and climate. Here is a link to a a new pruning video just released by my fellow collector and collaborator Jason Crouch of Fraser Valley Rose Farm, hardiness zone 8a (usually):

I will also mention that Jason will be attending the South Okanagan Rose Festival at the Summerland Ornamental Gardens on June 20th, 2026. We will have a selection of own root roses for sale to Canadian attendees. Registration will required. I also hope to have a special mystery guest attending from his new home in Texas, a guru on English Roses and many other things roses.

I will post further details about the rose festival when our spring newsletter is released in March. While my own responsibility is the rose collections, the rest of the Gardens are also undergoing some significant winter rejuvenation by other dedicated volunteers. If Mother Nature is kind, this will be a banner year in #Canada's Secret Garden.

Cheers, Rick 🙏

Advice:
If your rose has only one thin stem left, cut it back to a couple of inches above the crown in early spring. Then feed it with alfalfa tea. In many cases, the plant will push strong new basal canes and form a well-rounded bush in the same season.

@Diane Brakefield I, too, must thank you for the pruner recommendation. I bought them several months ago and my Coronas have become my backup. I love how well it holds its edge!

Rosylady, fabulous, well-tended and pruned roses, you certainly don’t need any tips from anyone. Everyone’s comments prove there is no one size fits all roses, rose classes, gardens or climates.

Rick, love your fulsome report. You clearly have a lot more patience and doubtless experience than me, to plan and consider so far in advance. I tend to take an immediate kill or cure approach to roses I feel are not performing to their best or doing what I want them to do!

With the proviso that these are all modern, grafted roses, here are a few examples of my winter pruning. As you can see, Spring has already sprung in my climate..

A new bare root floribunda rose, an example of hard pruning to 4-6” immediately after ‘planting’. I often bring on new roses on in 6-10L (2 gallon-ish) pots like this first before letting them loose in the garden:

This shrub rose has an awkward, leggy growth habit, so I pruned it back by two thirds, to around 12-14” to hopefully encourage it to behave better. I have just noticed an odd, downward-facing bit on the left, so will nip this off - photos are often better than the naked eye at spotting things:

This single-flowered rose naturally forms a nicely rounded and well foliated shrub now (after formative pruning), so just got a light trim. I could have thinned it more, but it‘s super healthy and a dense shrubby form gives a fabulous display:

This shrub rose is one I like a little taller, largely because it suits it - it will arch and spread a little and still gets decent bloom coverage lower down. I pruned off about a third and removed two older canes right down to soil level:

I bought (amazon) a pair of ARS pruners last year – HP-VS9Z – they are excellent and they were dirt cheap compared to Felco – I paid $38.64 – they are now $78.99 – wha happened? The VS8Z ($42.80) and VS7Z ($39.59) (both smaller cut diameter) are still reasonably priced. The VS9 can cut about 1” diameter – and I really watch my fangers.

I've watched the price of ARS products fluctuate a lot over the years. My two pruners of different weight, cost more years ago than similar ones do now. I'm guessing one reason for current price fluctuation is the yoyo tariff situation. I hope these products are still being made in Japan, and not a certain other country. We also have a couple of very nice pruning saws. Diane

Thank you for the continuing replies! I have been away from my computer for a few days as rose pruning continues in earnest. We are about 2/3 of the way done, with the goal of finishing by March 1 (that is when grass renovation season begins). I have a young man who helps me in the garden, and he has been learning how to care for roses with me for about 4 years now. There is no way I could do even a small part of this myself :)

Diane....I have been using a brand new pair of ARS pruners and they cut through even the most gnarly canes like butter....and they make the most satisfying sound! I'm thoroughly enjoying pruning with them this year.

Moses....Thank you for your kind words. The tree in the picture is a columnar Japanese Snowbell (styrax japonicus) 'Evening Light'. It has beautiful dark purple leaves and masses of white flowers in June. As it has aged, it has become too broad for it's position and is shading out the roses. We decided to experiment and hard prune it a few winters ago, as one would do with a columnar apple tree. It's worked brilliantly! And I love the shape it adds to the winter garden.

Here is the tree in leaf, in June:

And a closeup of the flowers:

judi...the germander in that hedge is teucrium chamaedrys, commonly known as wall germander. It is the type used for knot gardens. I have grown other germanders, but none has performed as well for me as this type. I love the whole genus of teucriums...so many interesting and variable plants.

Here is a picture of the germander hedge from late September. I wait until late fall to cut it back because it's in flower for such a long time and the bees absolutely love it.

Rideau Rose Lad....thank you for your wonderful, detailed description...and for sharing your rose pruning philosophies. You call me a master gardener, but I am and will always see myself as a novice: much to be learned!

My experience with 'Bolero' (I've planted it in three different gardens, all with different soils and sun exposure) is that it takes three solid years to settle in, and the fourth year will see it finally putting on a more grand show. You will hopefully experience the same this coming season. A rose well worth waiting for!

So much sage advice you have shared with us in your post...thank you! So interesting to see the befores and afters. The weather is a huge variable, especially for those of you seeing huge fluctuations. My garden, being on an island near the water, is always moderate. I agree, this thread has highlighted the fact that there are no "rules" to rose pruning, which makes it all the more interesting to see how each of us approach the job.

Dogma is the perfect word to describe much of the "advice" from rose "experts" out there. It scares away the beginner rose enthusiast. This is the reason I asked this question...I was curious to see if, indeed, seasoned rose growers were following these rather narrow "guidelines" you see in gardening books, shows, articles, and soundbites. I have been asked to share the "secrets" of rose growing in an interview, which has got me musing on the subject.

Maybe it would be safe to say: it's hard to kill a rose.

elena....your advice is exactly what the old rose books say! I am so curious to try this approach. In fact, I did: I was pruning a climbing 'Cecile Brunner' yesterday at my neighbour's house and it was a very pathetic one-twig-wonder which had never taken off. I decided to cut it down to about four inches and just see what happens. For all intents and purposes, it was pretty much "dead" anyway...not much to lose. I am looking forward to seeing what happens!

SD Shine....glad to hear the ARS pruners are working well for you. I feel like the market was dominated by Felco for so long, and their prices have become rather ridiculous.

NollieSpain...thank you for the wonderful pictures. I admit to being highly intrigued by your Tantau 'Creme Brulee' rose....I am jealous! We are desperate for the Tantaus here, and cannot get most of them. I especially love food named flowers, and would LOVE to have a 'Creme Brulee' growing in my kitchen garden :)

Your large, single flowered shrub rose is glorious. When a rose branches so nicely from the ground up like yours, pruning is a dream! I have a rose with a very similar size and shape...a floribunda called 'Easter Basket'. It's such a handsome bush, it even adds beauty to the winter garden.

Thank you, Rosylady, for the info about the germander bushes. I had done a bit of research on teucreum plants recently and saw that there is one used in knot gardens and wondered if perhaps that was the kind you have. I have the creeping germander growing down over the walls a few places and love them. But I haven’t tried the wall germander yet.

I would so love to visit your garden someday!

Ah, you spotted the label, Rosylady! Créme Brulée is a new release, so I have no idea how it will fare here - I go through a lot of roses in search of ones that can cope with my heavy downpours and hot and humid summers. The single-flowered rose is Astronomia/The Charlatan, one of my healthiest and most reliable roses. Easter Basket sounds similarly winning.

Iike Judi, I was also interested in your germanders. I have the very large teucrium fruiticans, which really thrives here, but you have tempted me to order a selection of more compact varieties to try. So thanks for the inspiration, if not the dent to my wallet!! The white and pink flowering duo are chamaedrys. The indyho is another fruiticans type, but allegedly only gets to around 3ft. These three are only small starter plants though, so it might be a few years before they fulfil their potential..

judi....if you're ever in the Seattle area, please don't hesitate to reach out. I would love to show you my garden.

Nollie....what a great selection of teucriums. I love the pink flowered one especially. I would love to get some if I can find it. I have three pale pink nepeta (Whispurrr Pink) that I have planted in the front of a bed and they flop and reseed terribly! I would love to replace them with this pink flowered teucrium. Also, please post lots of pictures of your 'Creme Brulee' when it flowers!

Aww, thank you so much for the open door, Rosylady! I would absolutely love to take you up on that offer and will put your garden on my list of “ Gardens to Visit.” I keep such a list in my phone because we travel a good bit with our business and I like to have some ideas of things to do in the areas where we install our staircases and slides. Hopefully we get an order for one in the Seattle area. ;)

Rick, Summerlands is new to me. If I ever find myself in that part of the continent, I will stop by and explore the garden. Thanks for mentioning it, and for posting the video.

Paula/Rosefolly

Rosylady, I will definitely post photos of Créme Brulée and my other new roses (of which 6 are Tantaus) over on the UK/Europe thread. I will try and remember to tag you when I do. I’ve never seen a pink nepeta here, but hope you manage to snag some pink teucriums.