Add Deutzia to the list.

Kerria has always looked weedy to me, though I do like it in flower.

Which dogwoods are you considering? The only experience I have with the shrubby dogwoods is the wild ones that grow in the swamp. Those don't seem to be shade plants, since they never pop up there. I also doubt the shade tolerance of fothergilla, given how slowly mine has done anything.

Hey @mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY), thanks lots for your post.

I agree re Kerria ie gorgeous in bloom in a darker corner but yes they can look "bed heady" and can have that not so good looking rust on the foliage.

I actually am not sure of a specific dogwood. I have an "Arctic Fire Dogwood" in the ground for just over a year in a shady location and it seems to be doing okay (although the rabbits had a feast on it this past winter :( ).

I didn.t realize that Deutzia can take some 'good' shade. And for one to see what's what in that back corner the shrub needs to be at least 4 feet tall. The newer varieties of Deutzia seem to be quite compact ie 3 by 3.

IME deutzia can grow, and bloom, with very little direct light. I don't remember the cultivar name od mine. I picked it up locally, so I could be almost anything.

Kerria is a caning shrub. So it will not necessarily stay where you put it. It's one of the reasons it looks 'messy' to me.

I had a kerria ("Golden Guinea") ages ago but eventually I removed it as I got tired of the "rusty blight".

It seems harder to source the larger taller deutzias as the smaller varieties are more popular.

Perhaps Kirengeshoma palmata? I just planted one this year so don't have real world experience to share yet. U of Wisconsin says it is hardy to USDA 4/5. Seems to nail the width, and maybe the height?

https://hort.extension.wisc.edu/articles/yellow-wax-bells-kirengeshoma-palmata/

I agree with deutzia, a great shrub IMO, and one not used as often as it ought to be. I have two (don't recall the variety as I planted them over 25 years ago, definitely NOT the newer dwarfish varieties). Here are my findings:

Mine are each between 6-8 ft. tall and 5-6 ft. wide, in almost total shade from mature oak and maple trees for the larger one and 2+/- hours of sun for the other. Both bloom well.

Neither gets any supplemental water (after the first year to establish). Pruning is easy -- just remove any dead twigs as needed. Or not. It will look better but it doesn't care.

The flowers are pretty if not exciting, with an airy appearance, light pink. Soil in both locations are not amended in any way, nor do I fertilize - ever.

Go for it, I say to you! =)

(P.S. -- and off-topic now: I have just lost my third Thalictrum 'Splendide" after many years of trying. Years ago, you posted a photo of yours, which was so gorgeous that I had to get it. My first one did well for about 3 years, then decided it didn't like me any longer and did a vanishing act. The most recent one looked good for a month this year and then was discovered by some foe {rabbit??} who took off the central leaf; it is now 2 inches high with no sign of progressing.

You know what the saying is: 'if you kill it three times, give up and get something different". Color me heartbroken...

I'm still considering coming up there some dark night and absconding with yours. You have been warned, lol. Have spade, will start walking. =)

Go for it, I say to you! =)

@roxanna, you and @mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY) have convinced me to search out a large deutzia but sourcing it might be tricky. We shall see.

Have spade, will start walking

You are tres funny 'roxanna'.

Right now I think I have 3 individual "Splendides" in the ground. And it is my experience that *if* by chance one gives a really good display it will be for 3 seasons....tops (and often just 2). After that, more often than not, it is a 'meh'. They are finnicky plants that seem to need to be moved to another location to rejuvenate. For example I had one in a certain location for the past 3 seasons, survived each winter no problem, and yet never seemed to get bigger and so about 2 weeks ago I decided to dig it up. Right now I have it in two pots as there were two quality 'sprigs' but I have no idea where to put them :(.

(I am surprised that these plants are so hardy given that the root system is so so shallow...6" tops and often way less).

My vote goes to the variegated Eleutherococcus. II think it would brighten up the area all season. It's not something you see much of, at least not in my area. Mine was purchased from Bamboo Plants and is still young, but I'm liking it.

I kind of like the eleutherococcus as well. My first thought was something to brighten the area. Actually my first thought, before I saw you had a list, was an aralia Sun King, but I don't know if it would get tall enough, or if there is too much shade (I only planted my first-ever ASK last year so my experience is very limited).

My second thought was fothergilla, and I see you have that on your list, but again, not sure how much sun it needs (mine are in about half/half) and also while it will be gorgeous in fall, it may fade into the background at other times in that shade. But maybe you're ok with that.

Would an aronia work here...?

:)

Dee

@diggerdee zone 6 CT and @chouchou_gw for sure your recommendation is a good one.

I had one of these several years ago and unexpectedly, given its hardiness, slowly 'retreated'.

The issue will be finding either this plant or the tall deutzia. I know 'chou' that Bamboo has it but I am hoping for a larger specimen to start.

(Dee, I have an ASK in an even shadier location and it is thriving. But given that I have 3 of them I am wanting to try something different).

Kerria is a caning shrub

As is the deutzia. And the eleutherococcus. Also the dogwood and the fothergilla but to a less rampant degree. Really only the diervilla is a stay-putter :-))

I'd consider a boxleaf honeysuckle, Lonicera nitida 'Lemon Beauty' (or Baggesen's Gold). Evergreen, hardy to zone 6 (lower in such a protected location), adaptable to a range of growing conditions and will easily get to the size you need. Also just as prunable as boxwood or Japanese holly. And with a lemony-chartreuse color that brightens a shady siting.

Did somebody mention Kirengeshoma palmata? Great plant! The ”wax bell” flowers are interesting, but the foliage is the show.

I’m not sure Fothergilla is a stand alone shrub, but I could see a solo ’Mount Airy’ in that spot. Shade tolerant, clean foliage, interesting flowers, and fall color that rivals the best of Sugar Maple. They can get leggy, but in that spot it would be moot.

I had no success trying to establish a Kerria in my shadiest corner and my impression was it might be too short for what you want. Dogwoods? Did you mean a shrub or a tree? I have a gray dogwood shrub, it's native and tolerates dryness well but it's huge in every direction and tall.

To me 4'x4' is a small area to get that height, at least 7ft to block the fence, right? The only thing that comes to mind that would establish pretty well in that limited sun, might be a 'Sky Pencil' Ilex.

@maackia and @indianagardengirl, interesting suggestion about the K. Palmata. I have an established one in a quite shady area....maybe too shady. But I think a non herbaceous plant is needed here and I cant imagine it getting over 4 feet tall.

@prairiemoon2 z6b MA, I am reasonably confident that there would be enough sun for a kerria and it has been my experience that they can get quite tall but yes having said that it is now down on my list of candidates.

(I am trying to find a Eleutherococcus or a taller variety of deutzia or as @gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9) mentioned, possibly a Lonicera but from a "brick and mortar" nursery but it ain't easy so far)

@

Rouge - I'm not sure why the Kerria didn't establish for me. It was deep shade but it was also close to the trunk of a Maple, so maybe it was root competition? I don't really know what a shrubby Lonicera is like. I just think of Honeysuckle vines. Would a vine work in that position? Just another option to consider.

Proud of you 'gg' ie you included pictures! ;)

Most of the "Kodiak" series show the dimensions as 4 by 4 which means to me, bigger than 4 by 4 ;) which would be fine for this situation. (And of course these PW "Kodiaks" are easier to source).

Have you considered an evergreen like 'Stonehenge' yew?

I didn't realize Diervilla was considered a honeysuckle bush. Does it have fragrant flowers? How tall do they get?

What about a ‘Golden Spirit’ smokebush to brighten up that corner? I have a couple that I love. They are still young and I hard prune each spring to control size and smoke. Great color spring, summer and fall….

yes, Smoke bush, but do you want a commitment to pruning yearly?. Not a big deal in late winter when surrounding plants are dormant but if you dont want something else on the spring to- do list think twice . i have young Grace/ and she is lovely.

Great pics, and an interesting suggestion @gardenho_z5. There is a current thread about these interesting plants.

Given the space I have it would need to be pruned quite regularly/radically to keep it in check and to do its best it needs to be in full sun, which this location isn't.

(Hey @Marie Tulin Boston burbs z 6a, I just saw your post and I agree).

I wanted to tell you that I appreciated so much all your thoughtful and interesting suggestions. As always I learned lots.

This morning I picked up, not too far from home "Kodiak Orange" Diervilla/Honeysuckle.

“if you dont want something else on the spring to- do list think twice”

haha true…unless you have cordless pruners 😁 which I finally purchased this year. What a difference! My daughter now calls me Edward Scissorhands lol. Love this tool!!

Btw Rouge, I hard prune mine once in the spring. They grow vertcally with maybe a stray or two horizontal branches which I tend to let be…

Looking forward to seeing your bush mature 😊

I had been thinking of a Stonehenge yew as well.... That smokebush is gorgeous - what color!

(smokebush scares me and I only admire it from afar in other people's gardens lol)

:)

Dee

The suggestion of this yew for this spot was definitely something to consider. What you cant see is that there is a large and established cedar hedge up the left side of the original picture and so including more evergreen, as a singleton I thought didnt look right.

Nice pick, Rouge - are the flowers fragrant on the Kodiak?

Cant help myself!

IF you had somewhere to put them, would ever consider ( like now) moving the small hydrangeas. theres a lot lof detail going on there. Imagine if you had all that space you could plant a something large , maybe with strong horizontal lines

Ive never seen a photo of your entire garden ( hint) but what do you have thats strongly horizontal or pointed?

Not for this spot, thats already been addressed, but when a spot opens up.

(sounds like getting your child into an exclusive NYC pre- school) in the case of your lovely garden , that may be the case.

@Marie Tulin Boston burbs z 6a, your post is well thought out and much appreciated...thank you.

Ive never seen a photo of your entire garden ( hint) but what do you have thats strongly horizontal or pointed?

Your wish is my command ;)

Two shots from above (the corner spot in question is shown with the green "pen")(Of course click on each for more detail).

And now further back:

The Kodiak Orange Diervilla is in my neighbors yard and is extremely hardy. Every year it invades my yard between fence slats. I have dug down to the roots and literally poured a gallon of weed killer(which I never use) on the roots then covered it with dirt and a large heavy stone. That plant is still alive and thriving!

debra

rouge I understand what you are saying about a "stand-alone" evergreen near the hedge. How about if it were something completely different, like a Glow Stick holly? The new growth is a bright green, which might stand out in that corner. It is supposed to get about 6 feet tall and only a foot wide.

Gold Cone juniper is nice too, although maybe not enough sun in that spot for one...

rouge, what plant was it that you were relocating(?) there a few years back? I feel like it was something that maybe you divided, or maybe it got damaged and you were trying to salvage it, or maybe it was just something that you weren't sure would make it and you were giving it a shot. It was near the fence to the left.....

:)

Dee

I'd be inclined to move the obelisk further into the corner and have a white or pale flowered clematis or rose on it. I'd bring the potted Hydrangea forward. It's quite dumpy and disappears somewhat amongst the other rounded shapes.

I am confident that the potted hydrangea would make itself known via colour once it is in full bloom ("Summer Crush").

Here is the same potted H from another year tucked in the back (albeit a different "back" ;)

But having said that I did move it forward, allowing me more space at the back. (This is an example of why I enjoy having plants in pots i.e. the ability to move them around the garden throughout the season).

The "issue" this year with this very large obelisk is that it is over a clematis which was moved to this spot last Fall and so is behind in its development making the obelisk look out of place for its size

I am musing over a few things.

• Move the clematis elsewhere this Fall; although I am not quite sure where at this point. I will need to pay close attention to where the sun is each month in that back area. (It can't go further back towards the corner as there is just not enough light to support a sun loving clematis)
• Further reduce the size ie height of this metal obelisk by cutting off the lower supports (I did this once already using a sawzall) with the hope that the plant will be more robust, coupled with the smaller, less imposing obelisk, will make it look better overall,

Lots of interesting and worthwhile suggestions fellow houzz members. Thank you.

The Kodiak Orange Diervilla is in my neighbors yard and is extremely hardy.

Hello Debra ie @djacob z6a SEWI. Might you be able to estimate how tall (and wide) your neighbours "Kodiak" has gotten?

what plant was it that you were relocating(?)

Good question Dee ie @diggerdee zone 6 CT. I have had many stand alone plants in that corner over the years. The one that lasted the longest was a "Lucy" hibiscus standard. After that there have been (at least?) two Japanese Maples :(.

Will Kalmia latifolia (Mountain Laurel) grow where you are? Evergreen, beautiful flowers in spring.

Rouge, without going out there while it’s dark, I would say 4 feet wide by 5 feet high. I could check tomorrow.

debra

No need to debra. Thanks for the info.

The suggestion of HOLLY is for sure an interesting one. Doing a brief search, I see hardiness listed as a minimum of 5 and more likely 6. But I may be wrong but I dont recall seeing Holly at any Ontario nurseries that I have visited.

And yes @cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA) I see that Mountain Laurel is available to me. Again, another interesting idea. Thank you.

What sort of pH do you have in your part of the world? I have some familiarity with the south side of the lakes, but have only visited the north side.

My pH is 7.2 - extremely high by eastern standards, and there are a lot of things I can't grow without serious soil amendments. The soil changes about 15 miles south, and on the other side of the river, and you see holly there, but not here.

Mountain laurel is a plant I don't understand. It is supposed to need acidic soil, yet in the wild grows in straight limestone. I tried one once, and it didn't die immediately. It's a plant you want to buy in good condition, so it's not something a bargain hunter like me usually gets near.

What sort of pH do you have in your part of the world?

@mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY), TBH I have no idea. I think this is because the acidity (or lack of) has seemingly never impacted my gardens.

Kodiaks Black grow to 5' tall x5'-6ft wide here......

Kodiak Fresh grows to 4ft+ x 4ft + here...

I have a newly planted Kodiak Jet black...The foilage is dark and the yellow flowers really stand out on that one...

Regular Kodiak Black...5 hours sun daily

Looks really good 'Jim'. Thanks for the info.

I kind of like the eleutherococcus as well

Let me be a shining example for you @diggerdee zone 6 CT ie I had already purchased "Kodiak Orange Diervilla" over a week ago (but still not planted) and so I didnt 'need' this 5 Leaf Aralia but I bought it anyways. Does "Haas Halo" and "Ground Cover Hydrangea" come to mind? ;)

LOL rouge, I know what you're getting at! Don't worry, they're on the list!

I feel like you must have ACRES of land. You are always popping into nurseries (I'm not sure whether I'm more jealous of your time to go nursery hopping, or the fact that you seem to have at least one good nursery near you!). Where DO you put all your wonderful purchases? I am especially curious because you don't seem to be a plopper like me. Your gardens always seem more thought-out, planned, and put together than my mish-mash.

What's the plan for this new addition? Or haven't you come up with one yet? ;)

Dee

I feel like you must have ACRES of land.

Sigh....I wish.

It is less than 50 feet wide and about 110 feet deep, also accommodating a 2 story house.

What's the plan for this new addition? Or

It is the "Or" :(