My "math" formula is :

Land Area x # of varieties x # of seeds divided by fresh eatin' x freezer space x # of canning jars = 12 months of veggies to eat.

Ergo my 5,000 sq ft garden + fruit trees = good eatin' year round.

If one removes the intitial cost of the fruit trees then the veggies annual cost = ~$150 (seed, organic fert, water, misc.). Resulting in ~$2,000 in produce. Estimate only. Plus a lot is given away as gifts to family, freinds, neighbors, co-workers which is priceless. The more you grow and store the cheaper it becomes with the biggest cost being time & labor.

I garden for hobby, so don't count my "labor". Small vegetable garden usually grows more than two people can eat and I share with friends and neighbors. Drought last year had everyone in my area down. With the cost of food going through the ceiling lately and projected to continue (example $1.50 for ONE slicing tomato, still can't believe I bought it!), I think yes you can grow vegetables for less than you can buy them at the supermarket. But I don't have the financial records to prove it.

Oh, God Yes! It's so much cheaper, even after factoring in seeds, fertilizer, chemicals, mulching, etc. If you factored in your time at your normal hourly wage rate, then no, but who wants to work all the time -- there is a big hobby/therapy aspect to gardening.

Take my garden last year: I bought a flat of 48 bell pepper plants in May at a regional superstore's garden center, on sale for $8.99. I picked some on an "as needed" basis throughout July and August for fresh eating, salads, cooking, etc. I picked 225 nice bells, some red, some yellow, some green in one big picking in late August, and put them in the freezer. I then later in Sept picked about another 50 or 60 peppers, made some into pickles, and froze the rest. Peppers in my area were, at cheapest, about $1 a lb for green, and $2 for red at the supermarkets, and ran about 2 for $1 at the Farmers' market. So, at a minimum, it would have cost me over $100 to buy those peppers.

Corn is another good example: I bought 4 packs of SE and Sh2 hybrid corn, at about $2.00 a pack, and planted 4 hundred foot rows. I harvested enough that we ate all we wanted fresh, gave a few dozen ears away, and put 66 quart sized bags of kernels in the freezer.

Tomatos are the best example of all -- bought 2 flats at $8.88 a flat, plus two packets of seeds for about $2 each. From those, I picked over 40 bushels of tomatos, making them into over 200 quarts of tomatos, tomato juice, salsa, spaghetti sauce, and chili sauce. I also have about 20 quart bags of frozen sauce (ran out of jars) and I dried about 2 bushels for "sun dried" tomatos.

Sweet Potatos -- overwintered the small tubers from the last year's crop, planted 15 hills, got about 2 bushels of really nice, big, juicy tubers.

Squash -- my best bargain -- planted a $.10 package of Waltham Butternut and a $.10 package of Ebony Queen Acorn, and harvest over 150 squashes, most of which I gave away, but I have about 2 dozen in the basement for winter use.

If you really want to economize on the cost of the inputs, you can grow a really nice garden from the $.10 seeds sold at Wal-mart and the dollar stores, most of which are old, reliable open pollinated varieties. It would be worth spending more for certain things, like Sh2 varieties of corn or special hybrid tomatos, but all in all, you can eat more cheaply from a garden than not.

Now, if only most municipalities would see the light and allow homeowners to keep limited quantities of livestock -- say a dozen chickens and maybe a goat. Ann Arbor, Michigan is considering a proposal to allow homeowners to keep 4 chickens for eggs, no roosters. A good start.

I think it can be done if the main purpose of the garden is to provide economical food, if the garden is large enough and if smart planning is used.

My garden meets none of those criteria. Its main purpose is to grow interesting and tasty alternatives to supermarket veggies and provide me with the satisfaction of seeing them grow. It is a small garden. I don't plan my garden with economy in mind. I do only a small amount of canning and freezing. I buy mail order seeds, resulting in shipping costs which nearly double the cost of seeds.

When my parents were young however, the garden provided most of the families vegetables year 'round and the expense was low.

Jim

With a large family and living where food has a higher importation cost than most other places, we spend so much on food overall that what I save by gardening is probably pretty laughable. From that perspective.

However, between what I grow and barter for locally I get about 50% of the foodstuff that I eat myself, so that is less laughable.

Regarding the concept of whether produce can be grown with little or no money. Definitely. For one thing, for crops that self-sow, or are practical to save seed from, then there is no annual seed cost. If one makes compost from the household waste stream, then there is no fertilizer cost. If one captures rain-water and/or uses drought remediating practices, then there could be no watering cost. So it's possible to bring it down to labor only, plus the depreciation on gardening tools.

In practice, I typically spend about $80-100 on seeds per year. Sometimes I buy hay for mulch, last year I spent $150 on that. Other years I cut my own. $10 per year for a rented acre. I don't buy fertilizers anymore. I do most of the irrigation from rain-water and grey-water, so there is negligable water cost. The total retail value of the produce is probably between $1000 and 2000. I would guess I put in at least 200-300 hrs per year on gardening. But gardening isn't work, for the most part.

That's only 3 cents per square foot, Vgkg.

This past year was better but 2006 was an expensive year for me. The veggie growing cost me close to 9 cents per square foot that year.

Steve

I should have refreshed the page after I've consulted my financial records - -

I agree! "Tasty alternatives to supermarket veggies" are probably our primary motivation, you bet!

"With the cost of food going through the ceiling lately" that's going to change the equation.

Allowing "homeowners to keep 4 chickens for eggs, no roosters. A good start." Couldn't agree more and this year, once again, I'll have that little flock of laying hens.

PNBrown, you've got good numbers to work with. Thanks for giving it some thought.

Steve

Steve, 3 cents/sq ft?

5,000 sq ft divided by $2,000 = $2.50/sq ft of veggies produced (which still seems low but I was deliberately low balling it). Probably 2x that.

But if you were referring to the seed cost of $150 then yes I spend ~.03 cents/sq ft which seems about right. It's easier to fiqure the initial costs but more difficult to figure the end savings. We do save a bundle on presents (Xmas, BDs, etc) as people prefer something good to eat over many other "things" (most adults anyways ;o)

In the linked report on "fresh market vegetable farms" (a hefty 52 page download) the researchers look at the finances of a 1.5 acre market garden.

We can talk about "economy of scale" but this market gardening operation had annual expenses totally nearly 19 cents per square foot.

With an acre and one-half, it isn't surprising that over one-third of their expenses were for hired labor. Of course, the owner was working for what was essentially minimum wage. Nearly one-half the value of the produce went to expenses.

Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: Fresh Market Vegetable Farms

I've never been able to understand why people are willing to raise food for other folks in return for so little recompense. I've worked a little here and there in operations like that, and I don't think the owners are having much fun, usually - quite the contrary, it's high-pressure.

A few hours a day doing garden-work is enjoyable, ten hours a day isn't. And if eight of them are on a tractor-seat, then why not run a bob-cat and make some real money? Hardly any difference in the job description. Then you could afford to spend a few hours a week growing food for the family and enjoy it.

If people won't pay the real costs for local non-chemical produce, then let them pay to ship it from mexifornia with whatever that entails. Meanwhile, we'll grow our own.

Also, we really need to factor in the exercise and psycho therapy benefits of home gardening LOL

Going out to the garden is the biggest release of stress for me -- just grab a cup of coffee on the way out the door early in the morning..... listen to the birds waking up and singing, the squirrels barking... being able to get out of the house where it's nice and peaceful. I can't put a price on that.

Also, the exercise factor. You know, all these people "working out" to get in shape and loose weight. They are just wasting all of that energy. I mean, yes they are burning off calories and fat, etc. But, I could give them a rake and a wheelbarrow and I promise they'd feel the burn after about an hour or so of raking leaves for me to compost. That's called upper body workout. And then pulling weeds is a great squat exercise. So we need to factor in the cost of a health club membership too.

Judy

Here is a link that might be useful: Ft2Garden.com

Interesting site Steve. I can see why their .19/sq ft costs exceed my meager .03. It's just little ol' me (no labor), nor do I use farm equipment (just an old tiller) nor hoop houses, irrigation equip, pesticides, fungicides, herbicides, etc. Perhaps I could up my cost to .04 for tiller gas, or .05 for canning materials but that would top it off for me.

Judy, yes I agree with putting hard excercise to work. The sweat I put out is replenished with a nice watermelon or a juicy peach ;o)

I'm not very good at keeping "math" records. However, I have a full freezer, full pantry - and we give away a lot of excess fruit, jams, cannings, home made stuff.

Was shredding old pay checks from my recent "well-paying" job, and discovered with all of the deductions - that I couldn't afford to work.

I quit - thinking we'd probably not make it, but without high cost gasoline bills, work clothes, paycheck deductions, I eat better, live better than ever.

I went out and planted dwarf fruit trees, put in 9 planter boxes to grow the veggies/herbs we eat, then freeze, dry, preserve almost all of it.

I'm blessed to have 3 nice barred rocks (city-approved), that give more eggs than we can eat, and lots of nice "poop" to enrich the compost pile. I feed the left-overs to the hens and the worm bins - to make more of "what I just said."

I now have the best monthly regular investment tally than ever - without all of those "exorbitant" pay-outs, I'm able to invest regularly in small money market accounts - that pay back small dividends. Who said recession ? - Life can be difficult if you let it.

Grow it yerself - get rich - er! Make money at home - stop driving yer car. Have fun doing it.

P.S. I recommend having the mortgage paid off - tho.

Bejay

BUT...

Wait! You all forgot another factor! Not cost, but savings!

Gardeners don't spend money on entertainment the way others do.

We don't have to spend money on fitness gymns or exercise machines. We wrench our backs, pull our muscles, and sweat like pigs in our own gardens while accomplishing something useful.

We don't have to spend money going to the beach to get a tan. We can just take off our shirts, even our pants if we dare, to get that Riviera leisure look.

We don't have to spend money paying for adult courses in chemistry, entymology, and botany. We learn about fertilizers, insects, plant diseases and needs just by being there.

We don't have to spend money paying for horror movies. All we have to do to get the same thrill is wait for the first unexpected frost to kill everything we've planted and coddled so far. And there's picking tomato hornworms or squash bugs off our plants, a different genre but still thrilling.

We don't have to spend money to visit the zoo. Wildlife galore is attracted to our vegetables, and we often do battle with animals we wouldn't otherwise even see.

We don't have to spend money on birdwatching forays. Birds come to our gardens while we sit back and watch.

We don't have to spend money going out to restaurants to get the best food in town. It's on the dinner table.

I say there's a LOT of money SAVED by having a garden you aren't taking into account.

HA! I see you had the same idea. I didn't read your post until after I'd made mine.

Oh you are so right Anney -- that saves lots of money just by our gardens "entertaining" and "educating" us :-) Great point!

Judy

Here is a link that might be useful: Ft2Garden.com

Beejay, I want your life.

(But, mine is close . . . ;o)

S'

Is this the "part 1" thread or the opposite?

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cornucop/msg0708354020193.html

Here is a link that might be useful: You can buy it cheaper than you can grow it

It is cheaper to grow veggies. in the garden compared to buying from market place.I do not have the answer Math. wise but I can tell you my experience from how much produce from two garden plots each of 50x25 feet area each having 12 rows.Okra, Peppers,Tomatoes, Potatoes,Beans,Bitter gourds,peanuts,Tindora,corn and melons are the crops I grow there in.This gives me enough to freeze for the rest of the year and enough to sell to local grocer to recover the cost of growing like seeds, fertilzers and some veggie. plants.I work for 2 hours per day on the average from May thru September.Working in the garden is a good work out exercise when you are not able to use Gym. for health reason like in my case.

Korney, that was probably the original "part 2" and I had forgotten.

The 1st conversation was in April. I stayed out of the "You can buy it . . ." thread.

My surplus garden produce is sold at a farmers' market. (You should know that before I get to the market, I have eaten some of my profits. :o) There is more produce than our small family can use and the freezer is filled along with some shelves in the basement for the Winter. And, the garden puts a few dollars in my pocket.

It's fun but I haven't taken it to this stage where there is a surplus, to lose money. It seems a little remarkable to me that my expenses and probably those of many other gardeners are below that of a small scale farmer when considered on a square foot basis. Still, he makes money for his efforts, also.

Steve

Steve, do you have your own stand at the farmers' market or did you work out an arrangement with a farmer who has a stand already? I'm interested in possibly selling surplus produce as well and I'm interested in any details you could give. Great post BTW.

Aside from getting my food from my garden, I sell surplus (mostly salad greens) to a very few select customers who live close together in a nearby town. (One family takes any type of surplus, even if they're totally unfamiliar with the vegetable.) Once a week I deliver when I make my weekly trip to town. I get a premium price for my organic, washed and ready to eat salad mixes that change with the season but usually have up to 20 different types of greens--$9.00/lb. This year I made just under $1200 from the garden.

Sure pays for me.

So far as market-growers having higher expenses per foot or per veggie, that doesn't surprise me. Based on what I see aound here, which isprobably pretty typical for small organic or IPM growers. They use a lot of expensive disposable stuff. That tractor-laid planting fabric and drip-tape, in particular. To re-work the beds for the next season that stuff gets yanked up and thrown away. A home-gardener would surely re-plant a diiferent crop without changing the bed. I'd do so until the fabric completely vanished, but the market grower can't or won't because there is no easy way to get a new shot of fertilizer under the fabric. Wthout the fertilizer he can't get the big yields and big veggies that the market demands. Not to mention the increase labor costs that would be associated with pulling the crop-residue out of the planting holes and re-planting. Although if I were in charge I'd come up with some way of getting at least two crops out of bed - why not just hand-sow a legume right into the previous season's residue, for example?

Gbig2, we have sold at one or another farmers' markets thru 14 seasons. Only during the 1st year was it a shared operation - showing up when we could and selling out of another's booth.

Selling wholesale would have been the killer and there are some crops, as Laceyvail notes, that have a much higher value. Unfortunately, these crops are very labor intensive things like fresh salad greens.

Restaurants are just crying for consistent supplies of high quality produce. I believe, it would be fairly easy, once a relationship is established, to sell there. And, altho' this can be seen as wholesaling, the prices paid don't reflect that. Surprisingly, large quantities aren't always expected but very specific products are required. The 2 gardening keys are consistent and high quality.

It isn't easy to get into this enterprise in a major way and PNBrown has pointed to the pressure some folks put themselves under. No one wants to work for two hours, two months, or two seasons and then compost their products and see no return on their effort.

At the same time, it isn't always difficult to get into the enterprise in a small way. Planning is important and, as gardeners, we all know that timing is the most important thing going on in our gardening. Having a consistent supply is all about timing. Having an adequate supply of acceptable quality is all about gardening skill and being blessed with good growing conditions.

You can see why I don't accept the notion that gardening is just a harmless activity with no real hope of material gain. And, food is material gain (don't believe me - take a look at my bathroom scale thru the Winter ;o). I doubt if any of us reading this grows ALL of his or her food. But, the contribution we can make there or elsewhere isn't just a matter of calisthenics, or aesthetics, or the stuff of whimsy. (Not that there's anything wrong with those things. :o)

Steve

I think a lot of the plastic mulch and so on could be reused for more than one year by most farmers -- I put it down on my garden, and leave it there for usually 3 years. I obvioulsy can't till in between, but things seems to work out just fine. I poke lots of small holes in it before I put it down, for drainage, and I just scatter fertilizer over the top of it and water it in, and things do just fine. I used to use drip irrigation, but our water here is so hard, it just plugs up right away, so I went back to overhead sprinklers -- rust coated plantes are better than no plants.

My situation is different from most of the previous people posting. I'm definitely in the red---yet for good reasons.

I started from scratch last year--no knowledge--poor soil--no materials--no fertilizers. I spent about $150 on just one 12X4 raised-bed(cedar wood and about 2 cubic yards of planting soil).

I have a small area, which cuts down on economic benefit. Living in the middle of the suburbs on a small lot with a large tree makes much of my yard unusable.

I'm expanding this year and I will max out with about 150 sq ft, maybe 200 sq ft, of garden area. I've spent about $120 so far this year, but I have about everything now including seeds that were donated and homemade compost(not enough though).

I expect this year to be a financially positive year. Of course, I don't include my labor as a cost factor. Hopefully, I'll be able to can some tomatoes, and maybe freeze a pepper or two, but really I just hope to feed my family of four--soon to be five, some fresh, healthy food.

On whole, I expect I'll be totally positive in maybe two more years just considering money saved at the grocery store, then again I'm not a strict bookeeper. Like Anney stated I get a lot more benefits than just food from gardening.

Pete

Pete, I was reading the other day that the average American garden isn't much larger. The highest yields can come from the smallest, most intensely prepared ground.

John Jeavons book, How to Grow more Vegetables or Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew can really give you good ideas. I'll recommend the first for keeping the costs down, however. They are both fun reading.

S'

I'm in somewhat of a similar situation as Pete but maybe a year or two ahead of him. Each of the past 3 years I have continued to add raised beds (which is necessary in Houston) to my somewhat small backyard. I currently have beds of 8'x4' (3 this size), 4'x4' (had some extra soil that needed a home), 12'x3', 4 whiskey barrels, and 2 other small containers (good for herbs or small peppers). I have also put in a blackberry, grape, 3 citrus, and an apple. I would like to still squeeze in another 2-3 more of the 8'x4' beds but might not get to that this year.

I know I've put more money into my garden to this point but I also know in the next year or two, my garden will be pretty much set and my costs will go down to seeds, transplants, manure, some organic fertilizers, and mulch. If I were to estimate how much I put in compared to how much I pulled out this past year, I'd also say I was in the red. However, getting 20-30 pints of blackberries, easily > 100 tomatoes, probably > 150 peppers, etc., I think I did ok.

I don't think I'll ever have a garden large enough to supply all of my family's produce needs, but that's not really why I have a garden. I have a garden because I can connect with nature, get some exercise, help the environment, enjoy FRESH fruits/veggies, etc. You cannot put a $$ value on that!

Well, in contradiction to 'supply and demand' rules, my super walmart insists on selling colored bell peppers for $2.34 each, despite that so few people will pay that, most of them sit until they are wrinkled and soft. That one is certainly a money saver.

Tomatoes too; since I eat lowcarb I only eat paste tomatoes most the time and it can take quite a few to make a good homemade tomato sauce; they can add up, aside from which, the ones in the store are often kinda pitiful and verge on tasteless.

I'm not sure I can financially count the benefit of not eating the chems on commercial produce vs. my organic garden.

Scallions are getting quite pricy in my stores as well. (Humor: I've discovered if I take the skinny/tiny scallions in those I buy at the store, and just stick them in my garden, they just start growing! Then I can harvest them a bit later when they are a more reasonable size.)

Daikon radish are priceless to me. When they do have it in my super walmart, it is revolting -- soft and flaccid. They never seem to have a decently fresh (firm/hard like a carrot) daikon worth eating. Like the colored bells, if I want them, I have to grow them myself.

My cayenne, kung pao, thai, and hungarian carrot peppers are not available anywhere around me, so again, those I have to grow if I want them.

Jalapenos are cheaper for me to grow than buy, given they fruit prolifically.

Basil is hard to find around me, and I love pesto, and pesto is damn expensive, so it's cheaper for me to grow several varieties of my own basil and make homemade pesto than to buy it.

I suspect, for the rest of the things I grow (pretty typical stuff -- onion/scallion, cauli/broccoli, carrots/celery etc.) it is probably cheaper to buy it than to grow it, or at least equal.

On the other hand, gardening is healthy work. I have a standing garden, 2-3' deep depending, done in a square foot top approach, with an additional 5 huge trellis arches and containers -- so my gardening is not NEARLY as much work as most peoples'.

The produce is probably more nutritious than store-bought stuff. Again, not sure how to put a price on that. It kind of makes it like comparing two different things, in that case.

I just read the first thread on this. I'm shocked at the money some people spend -- you know you can grow nearly everything from seed, right, you don't have to go buy actual plants. :-)

Each year I spend money on one thing: half a trailer of mushroom farm compost brought in by landscapers and dumped into the top of my garden. I have a few hundred square feet of deep-bed (cinderblock 24"-36") garden which by Jan-Feb is down about 6" from the top of the blocks. I have them fill those plus fill the tops of big tubs I use at the arbor/trellising plus tons of containers for various stuff. The rest of it goes into the compost bins or a couple empty rubber-like trashcans for later use if I'm still working on getting my containers together. By late April/early May (my last frost is allegedly end of May, go figure) it's ready to plant.

I do have compost bins and I use them but not very well or faithfully so they do not tend to produce much. Mostly they function as an excellent garden-trash and diversion, since they are only 3-sided, for the local critters like bunnies, who will eat what grows in the top of that or what is still fresh, and most can't get to or don't bother with getting all the way to the top of my garden to eat that stuff.

It's also a convenient place to throw the bugs/worms I collect. The birds haunt the compost areas just in case it's feeding time. There is not yet a final solution for the bleepin rolypoly bugs that on occasion expand to the thousands in a container-bed, but I do find that as long as I don't put really tender seedlings in there but only those with a little more age, they don't usually eat those. They like fiber, so putting some newspaper on top of the soil, come out in the early morning and they are en masse eating the paper, you can get a ton of them then.

Some years I also spend money on a variety of seeds. Aside from parsnip and onion most seeds I use last a few years if kept decently, plus I can collect more from all the non-hybrid stuff, so seed is not a huge cost. I trade seeds when I can. I'm a HUGE seedsavers fan, not for cost obviously but for variety and the importance of the endeavor.

The initial garden setup, plus grow lights, seed starting stuff etc. is a serious cost, but I feel I've made that back by now (after 7 years of garden - only 6 cultivating it - but I got tomatoes and hot peppers and scallions and a couple herbs by accident through reseeding last year). If I start seeds indoors (I do winter sowing now and sometimes use ordinary soil from my garden but I don't yet know how well that will work) I also spend some on soil for that. But not so much that I think I don't more than make up for it.

I can hardly afford to shop for "real food" anymore. If I don't garden I'll be eating the crap that is 90% of the grocery store instead of the perimeter. The veggies I eat from the store are nearly nutritionless, plus totally chem'd, over-sugar'd (which is a problem for my diet), so what is in my garden can't be compared to that.

That I can make tons of my own tomato sauce and freeze is one example of something that can really save money over time. That I can chop, blanch and freeze cauli/brocc, peppers/onions etc. is definitely WAY cheaper than buying the frozen stuff in the store, and as a working single mom is a lifesaver for still having time to cook 'real food' for my kid.

Oh boy, PJ, I wish I had your "standing garden, 2-3' deep depending, done in a square foot top approach . . !" I can really believe that your "gardening is not NEARLY as much work as most peoples'."

Yep, looks like you are really on to something.

You know, it occurred to me today that this thread was started in January rather than April or July like the 1st two. This may account for the different tone of the conversation.

Steve

I'm always sprouting with joy in January (garden lust, I call it). By May or June I'm feeling frantic at what isn't done and must be and the assumed health of everything. (Kind of a catch-22: on one hand, Type-A's probably shouldn't garden, they make it an OCD disorder. On the other hand, if they didn't, they'd probably keel over years sooner.)

I just read this endless thread by Al over in containers, as my beds are essentially very large containers and I've been interested in more seriously considering the soil combination. I learn so much here. That dude gets a gold star for educating the world.

My 11 year old told me not to bother growing watermelon this year because last year the yield was so small and "tasted like water" and according to her we might as well buy it at the store. Bad soil I guess. So there you go... apparently for us, it's a lot cheaper to buy a watermelon or two per season than take up a bunch of space and soil amendments and water to create 'em.

I have not seen in the math equation the health issue. Heart attacks are expensive and time consuming. Working in the garden helps build muscle and shed weight, and so the better health of many who grow their own can be a factor to be weighed also in doing the 'math'..

Not to mention the increased health associated with eating a lot of super-fresh produce grown in super-active soil.....

Ok no one has addressed whether the cost of supermarket food is the real cost of producing good quality food. It's not.

The price tag at the supermarket doesn't include the cost of land degradation by conventional agriculture, pollution by driving or flying food long distance, inhumane treatment of animals, and the fact that farmers and farmworkers don't get a living wage.

Yes, it's possible to produce inexpensive flavorless tomatoes that are picked green by machines, gassed, and trucked thousands of miles. It's possible to produce ecologically devastating monocultures of genetically modified corn cheaply enough, especially when you can put high fructose corn syrup into every processed food on the shelf. It's possible to produce chicken to sell at 99 cents a pound if you cut off their beaks, stuff them into tiny cages with lights on 24/7 and "harvest" them at 6 weeks.

What you calculate for your home garden costs (and you should add your labor) is pretty close to what it really costs to produce high quality healthy food. And it is worth every penny. Food is one of the basic necessities of life, yet Americans have been taught to consider that it should be the cheapest thing in our budget. The average American spends less than 10% of their income on food (the world average is around 30-40%; probably 50% in the developing world). This is false economy. I don't object to paying the real cost to get as much of my food as possible from smaller scale diversified local farming (including my garden).

Interesting discussion but for the anal types who do want to do the math I put together a spreadsheet. Using a spreadsheet you can come up with a $ value of your produce and add/subtract any other costs and benefits. It's pretty surprising how the $ value adds up especially when you consider that a 5 oz jar of 'gourmet' hot sauce can run $5 or $6 plus shipping. I made 32 jars of hot sauce in 2007 which comes out to over $600!
I just realized I can't [or don't know how] to attach the spreadsheet but it's easy to do. Column A = product, Col B = price/oz, Col C oz preserved, Col D, $ value [B*C]. You can do the same for fresh produce, add them up and subtract garden cost.
But...I don't expect any of my other hobbies to return a $ value, I do it for the joy of it, the personal pride, the sense of accomplishment. The garden gives that and more. No math required.

PS - if anyone wants the Excel spreadsheet I'll send it via e-mail.

I really value how this discussion has swung from one post to the other and back again. There are benefits to successful gardening from one extreme to the other and every point in between!!

Annebert, just want to point out that those broiler chickens don't live in cages but lie about in their litter on the floor 24/7. They have been bred to find it too difficult to walk about so that exercise won't rob them of the calories from their feed. Even "free ranged," they usually won't expend the energy to leave their housing. They've got 6 weeks of this existence.

This year, I will again have a small flock of laying hens in the backyard. They will be able to enjoy the sun and a few bugs everyday when they have human company in the yard. The hens will have as much garden produce as it is safe to give them. Their human caretakers should be the appreciative recipients of about 300 eggs/12 months from each one of them.

Steve

So it seems that no matter how you add it up, home gardening pays.

In fact, it is irreplaceable.

VGKG, 5000 SF at $2.50 each would be $12,500.

$2000 for 5000 SF should be 2000/5000 = 2/5 = $0.40 per SF.

Sorry so late in the thread, but it was nagging me...

Has anyone ever heard of a gardening business that installs (and possibly maintains) vegetable garden for people who want their own organic veggies, but don't have the time?

Personally, I've never heard of such a business, but I would like to know of one or more, esp if they have websites.

Any direction?

Sue