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lexie1397

Too late for lasagna?

14 years ago

Hi All,

I just purchased my first house and am excited to garden on real land for the first time. I have about 300 square feet in my back yard I can dedicate to food production however it is currently lawn. I've read about lasagna gardening, but I'm concerned that I might be too late to start it now. Our last frost date is approximately March 15.

Thoughts?

Also, the majority of articles I've read suggest many many layers of peat moss. That many layers of it, in as big a space as I have is going to get really expesive if I go through with it this year. Are there alternatives?

Comments (14)

  • 14 years ago

    Late but not too late if you can get busy on it right away and incorporate finished compost rather then stuff that still needs to decompose. 6 months decomp is recommended in the north. But if you want the benefits of a real lasagna bed then you will need the peat.

    Why not consider building simple raised beds instead and if you can find a local supplier of finished compost and some good quality topsoil it will be easier and likely cheaper too. Not to mention be permanent unlike lasagna beds.

    Do some reading about building raised beds and see if that might work for you. You see that covering the grass with a layer of cardboard first is a common recommendation.

    Dave

  • 14 years ago

    While not necessary, especially if you are on a budget, you can order soil ingredients/amendments in bulk from a local landscape supply company. Raised beds, at least one foot high, are beneficial in terms of weeds, pests, and crop growth. These can be constructed from 2"x12" wooden boards, 4"x4" sections for the corners and screws.

    Jon Hughes (jonhughes on this forum) has tremendous success with his soil: 25% each "native clay, Decomposed Granite, Pumice, Compost."

    Some examples of where to look for compost:

    Southern Oregon Compost

    Here is a link that might be useful: Jon Hughes soil

  • 14 years ago

    You will be fine. My suggestion is to make beds right away with cinder blocks, which will then accept and hold the stuff you put in. Ideally, you bury one layer of cinder blocks 4-6 inches, to prevent grass from coming in, and then place a second layer of blocks on top, totaling 10-12 inches deep beds, however the second cinder block layer can be added in 2014, for example, after the first layer gets filled with compost. Lowe has narrow (4 inch) cinder blocks that probably suit your small site better.

    In any event, start with cardboard or newspapers (one layer of cardboard, many layers of paper) and cover the grass now. It will be dead by March 15. Leave the cardboard in place when you plant, just punch holes through it for the plant.

    Although Dave is right that it is late for proper composting, there are numerous plants that grow well in partially composted material. Tomatoes, melons, garlic, squash and potatoes will do fine for example, as a matter of fact I use the tomato and potato beds every year to finish the composting of dead leaves during the growing season. You can help yourself by mowing the leaves to small pieces before filling the bed.

    The first year there is a lot of learning to do, it is unlikely that the unfinished compost will play a major role.
    At worst, it will prevent you from having carrots and some other veggies that need direct seeding of small seeds.

    Or you can buy compost. Here the city sells it at $7/cubic yard, plus $50 for delivery if you do not have a truck, and it is good enough that you do not need any fertilizer the first year, and fine enough that you can seed carrots in it.

  • 14 years ago

    I love my raised beds. The guys above are giving you great advice. I would add that if there are barns or stables nearby, you might be able to get manure. If it's fresh, get it right away, pile it up, and let it compost until spring.

    I attach some pictures of my garden in its second year. I have really enjoyed it and it gets better and better each season. I built my beds by myself using a level, a shovel, a hand trowel and a two by four. Dear Hubby works all the time and I am not too patient....:) It's dirty work, but not particularly hard with these stacking blocks. No mortar required.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Donna's Vegetable Garden, 2010

  • 14 years ago

    Forgot to tell you. No peat moss except in seedling mixtures. Too expensive, non renewable, replaceable by other materials. Use whatever you have. I compost all my kitchen scraps, of course, I have 5 gallon buckets at the home of anyone with a wood stove, and I collect about 100 bags of leaves a year from curb sides. In the past I have used massive amounts of free wood chips and free manure. Never buy compost or mulch, or even fertilizer except perhaps urea, although exceptions for the first time are reasonable.

  • 14 years ago

    Congrates on your new home & garden space. GW folks are the best & have already given you some good tips.

    I don't ever think it's too late to start a garden. You're one step closer to harvest with everything you do. Might have to start smaller is all for the 1st year, but building and maintaining good soil is a long term project for all of us.

    The lasagna layers used to be called sheet composting, so that might help you find what information you're looking for as well as check out the Soil Forum that has information on Interbay mulch as a way to start your garden space.

    In my experience the bottom layers can be more chunky compost ingredients with the finer things on top so that you'll be able to plant seeds in spring. I've shared a few times on GW about how I've built garden beds on top of the existing ground using free or nearly free materials readily available, so if you search my user name you'll find them.

    I like really Barbara Pleasant's Compost book for great explanations, diagrams, & photos for successful gardens. If I had that book when I first started gardening I would have had a lot more success right off the bat. The soil is the most important, but I thought it was all in the seeds or the plants I'd buy. The learning curve can be steep, but it's all part of the learning.

    If you don't have a truck, use containers (buckets w/ fitted lids, garbage cans with lids, rubbermaid totes w/ lids, contractor garbage bags, etc.) inside your vehicle on top of a clean waterproof tarp that is large enough to go up the sides to prevent leaking.. I've hauled a lot inside the vehicle when we didn't have a trailer, but now that we do it's the best! Much easier to load & scoop out the back as well. A shovel full is always easier to lift than a container full. Unloading gets tiring, so save some energy for that, too.

    Be sure to protect your garden space from the burrowing animals like moles or gophers. It will save you frustration in the future if you do it now when making your garden beds. If you don't have them now, they'll come find you once your soil is rich with earthworms.

    I wish you the best in your garden making this year!
    Corrine

  • 14 years ago

    My advice to a beginner, start small. Do four square foot garden units. I prefer 2x8 to 4x4. You'll grow a lot and learn a lot. You're in zone 8 so you can build some easy hoop frames over those square foot beds and grow all through the year. If you don't can or freeze, four square foots will be plenty for a kitchen garden.

  • 14 years ago

    I have been building lasagna beds since 2007 and never use peat moss. I top off my beds in the spring with a layer of composted horse manure. I found free manure on Craigslist and this person adds kitchen scraps, etc and turns it so by spring it is beautiful.

    I would suggest you try two different methods. For the first year, build some beds now using the lasagna layering and use those for the veggies like tomatoes and squash that don't need fine soil. I add worm compost to the planting holes and always water transplants with fish emulsion/fertilizer to avoid transplant shock.

    Build the other beds square foot style so you will have the finer soil for things like carrots and lettuce.

    I also agree with using some hoop frames or low tunnels over some beds. I am amazed at how much I was able to extend our NH growing season with a simple low tunnel. Bush beans germinated and grew fine when others lost their early plants due to a cold, wet spring. In the fall, we get a light frost around Sept 18 so the tunnel protected a late planting of bush beans.

    I really like the lasagna method. We have very thick sod with lots of weedy, runner type grass. I don't need a rototiller with this method.

  • 14 years ago

    Thanks everyone for such quick reply!

    I have begun the process of layering my space. As it turns out I actually have more area than I thought, so it is taking some time to find adequate portions of material.

    While I will probably plant in blocks, the entire space needs the soil repaired (soggy wet and still hard enough in the current garden spaces that I can't move the dirt with my hands) so I'm covering it all.

    I am finding plenty of "chunky" materials... cardboard for the first layer, straw, shredded paper, etc. What sorts of things might be fine textured and readily available? Due to the fact that the majority of my savings went to my down payment, I'm having to resource "byproduct" material (soiled paper and straw bedding from pet rabbits, for example) that people are otherwise throwing away.

    Also, since I'm sourcing my cardboard from the retailer I work at, it frequently still has packing tape and large staples still on the boxes. I know these things will not decompose, and it wouldn't be the best to have them in the garden... but do I really NEED to detail a truck bed full of boxes? In other words, are there toxins or other dangers if I leave those things in? In that vein, is there any organic material that should not be going in these layers? I know fresh chicken manure is too strong, any others?

    Archievicki-thank you for trying to reign in 10 years of dreaming of gardening! I know my ideas and plans may be beyond the scope of reality for a beginner :) We are volume eaters, though (we eat at least 12 pounds of frozen broccoli most weeks and there's only two of us), and plan to get lessons from my mother and grandmother in canning, freezing and pickling to make sure we save as much of the produce as we can. Almost nothing we're planting HAS to be eaten fresh, though much of it will.

  • 14 years ago

    I admire your enthusiasm! Killing off the grass is always a good first step, IMHO. I hate it. It hides slugs! We have lots of them here in the PNW.
    OTOH, it really is a waste of materials to cover the whole area. Raised beds are way more productive than row gardening, MUCH easier to maintain, and almost no weeding, which is the major cause of 'new gardener burn-out.' 8-)
    Good luck. There's a lot of free information on this and other gardening forums. My favorite book for beginners is
    "The All New Square Foot Gardening." I don't follow the soil mix perfectly, since I find it too expensive, but it's easy to combine with lasagna, and to keep things organic.
    Really easy to plant intensively and keep track of your progress, though.

    Best of luck in your new home and garden!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Square Foot Gardening

  • 14 years ago

    donnabaskets, your garden is too beautiful to eat!
    It is never too late to start working the soil to improve a garden site.
    Winter is the best time, I get loads of free leaves & leave more the I carry off.
    I till, but if you are no till then you can spread & the worse you will do is suppress the weeds.

  • 14 years ago

    Sorry it has taken me so long to get back here!

    I have finally seen the light and wisdom that is a defined bedding area. I probably won't actually get them raised this year, but I will contain my materials within boundaries. I have divided my space (larger than I originally thought I was going to get) into eight 4x6' beds and a few 2x6' with 2' walkways (a bit narrow, but enough). I have done some research on square foot gardening and think I'm in love! Since there is no place to get vermiculite in Oregon, and I already have a bit of a start on lasagna style soil prep, I will continue that road and not plant quite as intensively since my soil probably won't be as rich.

    I have also gotten the word out to friends and family that compost and such would be put to good use at my place and have had offers to remove rabbit droppings and composted horse manure. Hubby also approved buying a couple yards of compost which should help as well.

    One more question... would it do any harm to continue adding materials once the plants are in the ground? Obviously not so much that I bury the plants, but more as a slow release fertilizer and continued weed control method? I'm thinking the rabbit poo and such will continue being made available to me all season and it would feel silly to just add it to my compost pile.

  • 14 years ago

    I believe fertiliing after planting is called side dressing so it's fine

  • 14 years ago

    Please re-think the 2' walkway! Some of mine are that narrow due to the space I have and I always tweak my back or tromple plants trying to get a load of something or other turned and dumped into a bed!
    8 4x6's is a lot to start with anyway.
    You'll thank me later! Nancy

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