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chalstonsc

Is it possible, tapla?

19 years ago

Al, my tomato plants have developed pretty uniformly pale green and yellow green leaves and I'm trying to pinpoint the problem and fix asap. I put healthy, dark green leaved, five and a half week old, hardened transplants I raised from seed(five varieties all with the same problem) into five gallon buckets on March 28 th. The mix I've used:

4 cu.ft. pine bark

5 gallons spaghnum peat

2 cups Tomato Tone fertilizer

2 cups lime(1 cup pellets, 1 cup pulverized.

The weather has been cooler, longer than usual around here and windy, with some nights in the mid to high 30's and 40's. I've taken care to move the buckets inside any night temperatures have gone below 45, so I don't think weather has been a factor.

Each bucket has 4 half inch holes and 4 quarter inch holes in the bottom and six quarter inch holes on the sides at the bottom. This year I'm experimenting with self- watering to provide more uniform moisture during our hot coastal SC days to come. I have six quarter inch rayon wicks suspended into a reservoir of water through the bottom of each bucket.

In one of your posts you said the most common cause of yellowing leaves(the kind I have with dark veins) in containers is overwatering. Is it possible I have overwatered with the number of wicks I have? I assumed the number of wicks would not cause a problem as the mix (and plants) would take up only as much water as the mix structurally allowed. I used the number I did to assure during the hot days to come that the plants would be able to access all the water they needed. It has been very dry around here, but I have been able to water sparingly to keep about a half inch or so of the wicks in the water, maintaining plenty of air below the buckets. The mix has been moist to touch and sight each time I have checked at a depth of 1-2 inches.

The other most common cause you said in the same post was a nutrient deficiency, most likely nitrogen or iron. Tomato Tone in the amount I used seemed to me to be able to supply all that would be needed to this point, roughly a month later, but I may be wrong. I noticed the pale green leaves, starting at the bottom about two weeks or so ago, and I foliar fed half strength Miracle Grow(tomato), enough to thoroughly wet all the leaves about a week or so ago. The paleness and yellow, green color has gotten more visible in the last few days. While the top leaves seemed to remain pretty green, in the past few days they seem to be starting to pale and and become yellow green with dark veins too...Almost all plants have flower clusters opening and suckers sprouting.

My best guess is nitrogen deficiency progressing...your thoughts and recommendations please? Thanks for your help and all of your educational posts....

Tom

Comments (7)

  • 19 years ago

    Two questions come to mind: What did you use for liming material? & Was the bark you used uncomposted?

    Tomato Tone has only 4% of N by weight, so it's a strong possibility that you're up against a temporary condition of N immobilization - especially if there were other forest products like sapwood or hardwood bark in the mix and it is uncomposted.

    Also, look closely at the saturation level of your soil. N uptake is poor in soggy soils and that situation is exacerbated by conversion of soluble N to N gas and its subsequent dispersal into the air under soggy conditions.

    If you limed the soil with slaked or quick lime, That could raise pH quickly & substantially, wreaking havoc with uptake of assorted nutrients and causing other difficulties. If you used dolomitic lime, you should be ok.

    I don't think the mix is currently holding too much water/too little air, but it very well could as the soil ages if bark particulates were fine to begin with - difficult to say from here. Hopefully the planting will mature to the point that extended saturation is a non issue.

    Not a ton of help, I know. Perhaps something I said will give a clue & you can report back with more info. If you know that lime is not the culprit, I'd try adding a full strength dose of a soluble fertilizer like 20-20-20 or even an evergreen formulation with a higher N concentration to one container. If you see favorable results, you can be pretty sure it's a N deficiency & you can add N regularly to all the containers until good color returns to leaves.

    Good luck.

    Al

  • 19 years ago

    Al, thanks for the quick response.

    I used one cup of "pelletized dolomitic" and one cup of "pulverized dolomitic" lime to the pine bark and peat amounts above.

    The pine bark may not have been composted as much as ideal...while it had a dark color, it did seem to have some pine sappy smell to it,possibly indicating not composted enough?,....it did have some what I thought quite minimal amounts of other bark....the pine bark particles were almost all the size called for in your posts. I used a very similar pine bark last year and had none of the leaf color issues I have this year. (Last year I used a similar(2 cups)amount of 10-10-10 and got more growth than I thought was ideal, and perhaps at the expense of some fruit.)

    You lost me on: "Look closely at the saturation level of your soil" How do I do that? I wouldn't think I have soggy soil with six wicks per bucket, but how do I tell what's going on nearer to the bottom than my fingers have reached so far?

    In the meantime, as you suggested,I've tried a dose of full strength, soluble Miracle Grow For Tomatoes which is 18-18-21...
    how long before I should know if that's the fix? If it is the fix, I take it I should be using more nitrogen next year?

    Thanks again,
    Tom

  • 19 years ago

    The prilled lime pellets break up as soon as they're wetted, so there's no advantage to using one over the other except less dust when using prilled lime.

    "Last year I used a similar(2 cups)amount of 10-10-10 and got more growth than I thought was ideal, and perhaps at the expense of some fruit".color>

    As you wish, but are you taking into account that 2 cups of 10-10-10 has 2.5 times the N as what you used this year, and it was probably immediately available?

    Saturation level tip: Tilt your container 45* with one of the drain holes down. If water runs out, your soil is holding too much water - at least at this level of planting maturity.

    I suggested a soluble evergreen fertilizer which should be higher in N than any of the other nutrients. A fair substitute would be a soluble balanced (10-10-10, 20-20-20, etc.) at full strength on one plant. You should see results within 2 or three days if temperatures are conducive to growth and there is enough air in soil to insure adequate root function (uptake).

    Al

  • 19 years ago

    Al, thanks!

    Will check saturation...temperatures are fine for growth, so will let you know, although I'm sure you have many more interesting subjects to follow than the progress of my tomatoes!!!

    Now that you make me think about it, cutting the N by more than 2.5 times does seem like going a bit too far in the other direction from last year's 10-10-10. Last year I also mixed my soil several weeks ahead of transplanting, so the N I would guess was probably more available also....

    Again, thanks...
    Tom

  • 19 years ago

    Al, not a drop of water came out when I tilted as you suggested to check the saturation level.....the case is closed though as all plants have greened up nicely with the full strength dose I gave them: was nitrogen deficiency....
    Thanks!!
    Tom

  • 19 years ago

    Ahhh! Great news. Good job, Tom. Keep an eye on older leaf color now & when it starts looking a bit chlorotic, supply some additional N.

    Al

  • 19 years ago

    Al, will do....thanks again, they're not only dark green again, they're back to sprouting, flowering as good as ever!
    Tom

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