You are correct that doubling the application rate is equivalent to using a doubly strong fertilizer. The organic fertilizer you are using is good stuff but slow to break down and become available to the plants. I have used all of those materials. At the suggested application rates there is no problem with burning. Applying to the surface is fine, but it will take time for it to be absorbed into the ground because it is insoluble until it decomposes.

For a quick boost to pale, anemic looking plants, use a soluble fertilizer such as Miracle Grow. You don't need to use a heavy application and it is immediately available to the plants. They will perk up in a few days. Over the long haul, they will be well served by the organic stuff.

Jim

Agree with Jim but since you don't mention your zone or where you are located (you really need to add that to your post info) there are several other possible explanations for the condition of your plants that might make a difference.

One is simple transplant shock which they need to recover from before being fed anything.

Another is soil that is too cool and they were planted too early. If that is the case you could add all the fertilizer you wanted in any form you wanted and the plants still won't be able to use it - until the soil warms up and then it might burn them.

And if the soil is both too cool AND too wet which is the most likely cause this time of year, then it really needs to dry out before you feed them more.

Just some thoughts to consider.

Dave

Thanks for your reply Jim. If I add it to a batch of compost tea and use it as soil drench will it potentially break down faster and become available?

Thanks Dave. I'm in zone 9/10 (Phoenix, Arizona). I started my tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, etc in early January and my squash, melons cucumbers etc in mid February. I transplanted everything out on March 13 when night time temps were around 50. Now, they're staying above 50 at night and are in the low 80's during the day.

I've been having trouble trying to get my watering schedule right because my drip is not yet finished (hopefully in the next couple days!) so it might be that the soil is too wet? As for transplant shock, I don't think I see any serious signs of it. Just a general lack of real green color.

Sorry, zone 8...

Phoenix, Arizona? probably zone 9/10 is correct one, not 8.

As mentioned, nutrients in compost are very slown release.
You want to have sonme fast acting solution, you may try some
all purpose 10-10-10 fertilizer if you are not stictly organic gardener.
I have found out that, as far as the plants are concerned,
it does not mater what is the sources of N,P,K. The concept and
issue her is environmental.

In Phoenix you may have alkaline or saline soil. Have you had it tested? Does the soil support weed growth?

Yea I thought it was 9/10 but when putting in my zip on this site, it came up with 8. All I know is it's getting friggin hot already!

I'm trying to keep this garden completely organic so many of the fertilizers are not available to me. I'm also doing it "veganically" *prepares for bombardment* :) so I'm even more limited! I've got quite a big operation going for my first garden and it's overwhelming at times...not the actual work, but in attempting to accumulate an incredible amount of knowledge over a short period of time. So far it's been a blast though.

Lilydude,

Yes I have tested my soil and it is indeed quite alkaline as expected. I turned in a ton of compost and added sulfur/gypsum. The soil supports an incredible amount of weed growth. I've even been harvesting and eating some of them!

I have not used compost tea, but I think it would be a good organic alternative to the type of soluble fertilizers I mentioned. If I understand it correctly, compost tea contains soluble nutrients.

Manure tea would work too. Fish emulsion is good, but expensive to use on a very large scale. I suspect either of these may not fit with veganic gardening, of which I know nothing.

Jim

It may be that your newly set out plants need a bit of adjustment. However, (I'm in zone 10 and planting out, I would try to give your newly planted stuff some shade and perhaps a mulch to keep soil temp more moderate.

I recently planted my pickling cukes (temps soared to 80), so worry that it may be hot. I use several seedling plastic trays as a quick shade until seeds emerge, also vermiculite helps keep soil moist if planting seeds now.

The tomatoes are a bit soon for zone 8. My recommended planting is next month - and peppers too, along with summer squash.

If I fertilize before planting, I like to use bone meal, although not too close to the young roots - or they will burn. I'd go slow on too much fertilizer, until plants are established (show more green).

bejay

king: there are 2 commonly confounding factors common in your situation. 1) cold soils limit the amount of phosphorus available and 2) alkaline soils tie up the phosphorus, making it unavailable also.

One solution to both is to use a side banding technique either shortly before or after planting. The idea is to place a concentrated strip of phos fertilizer be it tea or TSP in a narrow band, say 1 - 3" wide a few inches below and off to the side of the seed row. The seedling roots will grow into the band which is essentially saturated with phos to the point that excess phos is available for the young seedlings with there rather limited root systems. As with any "salt" you must not overdo it or the high "salts" in the band can burn the roots.

Some research has shown it best to place the band directly beneath the seed row, some shows below and to the side depending on the crop.

Bejay, although my profile says zone 8 based on what I entered in on this website, I was always under the impression that Phoenix was Zone 9/10. For the last 2 weeks, it has dropped below 50 at night one time and during the day it's in the low to mid 80's. The avg last frost in my particular area is March 10.

Michael, things are looking a lot better this week. More green and less yellow. I have some raised beds that have a neutral soil in them and the plants were looking the same in those as the bed with alkaline soil so I think it might have been a combination of transplant shock, cooler nights than they're used to and adjusting to a new watering schedule. Thanks for the info on fertilizing using the narrow band method. I'll be receiving some liquid fertilizer this week and will give it a try.

On another note, you start getting the hang of something and another problem pops up....now I have to deal with %$#*#@! aphids gathering in large numbers on my beets! haha.

A friend gave me a 'recipe' that she used in her garden last year and had the largest vegetables I had ever seen. She said to mix 40 pounds of 20-20-20 and add 1 4 pound bag of Epson Salts and one 4 pound bag of sugar; add to garden and till in. I could only find 21-0-0 this year. Can someone tell me what to buy to come up with the last two numbers? Thanks!

King,

way back in your first post you said that the compost was kind of woody. my question is the wood digested? if not then it will be a big draw on your N as it take N from the soil while digesting. after it is through digesting i adds carbon to the compost pile.

again if it is not well digested it will sap your N from your soil.

st least this is what the experts tell me.

Dean

Frances: Normal superphosphate (NSP) 0-20-0 and triple superphosphate (TSP) 0-45-0 can both be used for the middle number which represents phosphorus. For the 3rd number, potassium(K), potassium sulfate (K2SO4) is 0-0-50-18S meaning 50% K and 18% sulfur (S) and is used in circumstances where chloride salts from another common K source fertilizer, potassium chloride (KCl), might cause a poor crop response or a chloride buildup in the soil. I'd guess you wouldn't have any trouble finding these individual fertilizers in a good nursery or garden supply store.

Do you know hoe to do the calculations to come up with the fertilizer you want made up from 21-0-0 combined with other fertilizers for the P and K? If not, ask and I or someone else will show you how.

Dean,

No, the wood chips are not yet decomposed. Still a lot of big chunks. I had 200+ square feet of clay soil to amend so I had to order the compost in bulk. It was the best I could find. Other than being a little too woody, it's great stuff. I added an all purpose organic fertilizer to the whole bed and then sprinkled some in the bottom of each planting hole to hopefully counteract the wood that will leach nitrogen. I will probably have to supplement this bed with nitrogen fertilizer for a while but I'm hoping in the long term the soil will end up being great.

Thanks for your reply!

Thank you Michael1357 for the answer to my question about 2100 fertilizer. I do not know how to calculate the mixture needed to end up with 20-20-20. Thanks for giving me that calculation info.
Francesl2010

I may not have been clear when I mentioned the formula for fertilizer calculation: Yes, I would very much like to have that info. I plan to shop for what I need on Thursday when I go to town. Thanks

Although others will dispute this assertion, I think that the issue with having woody (unfinished) compost in your soil it the presence of acetic, butyric, and other intermediate products of decomposition. These inhibit seed germination and root growth.

(Others will say that it's the lack of available nitrogen. If there is a lack of available nitrogen, it's because the nitrogen is still bound up in the microorganisms that are still working on your unfinished compost. As it finishes, the nitrogen will become available. But the underlying question of why don't plant thrive in unfinished compost is not a question of nitrogen, it's the presence of the organic acids due to incomplete decomposition.)

It will take some time for the bacteria to finish composting this material and until it does finish, your plants won't thrive. Adding fertilizer isn't likely to remove these intermediate products.

The good news is that bacteria become more active as soil temperatures rise, and you live in a warm area.

frances: it is late and my eyes are tired. I'll try to sneak away from work tomorrow and give you the calculations. What fertilizers did you get?

Michael

frances: the algebraic portion of my brain as well as the part that used to remember how to do the calculations have gone kaput! I humbly apologize for not being able to give you the previously mentioned calculations. I'll continue beating my head against the wall later and see if the answers are still in there.

Michael

frances: I just realized the solution! What you want to know is what fertilizers do I need to use and how much to get what 40 lb of 20-20-20 would deliver. Now that is a simple question to answer compared to how do I make 40 pounds of a 20-20-20 fertilizer. In case you don't already know, that "20-20-20" means 20% nitrogen(N), 20% phosphorous (P) and 20% potassium (K) by weight, in that order.

The solution - your 20-20-20 has 0.2 x 40lb = 8 lb of N and 0.2 x 40 lb = 8 lb of P and 0.2 x 40 lb = 8 lb of K in it. We want to find a combination of fertilizers that will give you those 3 amounts

1) the N - using urea fertilizer which is 46-0-0, divide the number of pounds of N needed, 8lb, by the percent of N in the urea you are using and that gives the answer in lb of how much urea will give the same amount of N as is in the 20-20-20. 8 / 0.46 = 17.4lb.
2) the P - using triple super phosphate (TSP) which is 0-45-0 the math is the same. 8 / .45 = 17.8lb
3) the K - using potassium chloride (KCl) which is 0-0-63 the math is the same. 8 / 0.63 = 12.7lb

In the end you have 17.4lb of urea + 17.8lb of TSP + 12.7lb of KCl totaling 47.9 lb of blended fertilizer that delivers the same amount of N, P and K as 40lb of 20-20-20.

Here is an example starting with a different fertilizer than your 20-20-20. Lets say you were told to use 25lb of 15-30-15 (very common, I.E. Miracle Grow).

1) How much N,P and K are in the 25lb of fertilizer? N = 25lb x 0.15 = 3.75lb. P = 25lb x 0.30 = 7.5lb. K = 25 lb x 0.15 = 3.75lb
So -
2) how much ammonium sulfate (21-0-0-24S) is needed to get 3.75lb of N? 3.75 / 0.21 = 17.9lb.
3) how much normal super phosphate (0-20-0) to get 7.5lb of P? 7.5 / 0.20 = 37.5lb.
4) how much potassium magnesium sulfate (0-0-22-11.2Mg-22.7S) to get 3.75 lb of K? 3.75 / 0.22 = 17.1lb. In addition you are also getting 1.9lb of magnesium, 17.1 x 0.112. Epsom salts are your desired magnesium source and are simply, magnesium sulfate. Plus, you get 17.11lb x 0.227 = 3.9lb of sulfur. What a deal!

I hope this helps, let me know if it was clear or not.

Michael

Thanks for the formula. I finally found the phosp. yesterday, could not find the potassium. Will try another feed store in another small town today. Hope to get it all mixed up and in the garden soil this week. We've had so much rain our ground is saturated.
I appreciate everyone on this site!
Thanks again.