'We drilled holes in the bottom, laid a layer of gravel/marble chips and then planted them in MiracleGro topsoil."

I am a newbie here, but can tell you first off you have the wrong soil and the plants are probably water logged.

You will need more holes if you want to keep that container, and you will need to use a "better" suited mix for your plants. Topsoil is for "in the ground" mixture with other things like compost. Its death to pots.

In containers I use Pine Bark, Lowes Sta-Green potting mix and Perlite.

Depending on the plants, dwarf tomatoes need about 3gallons per plant, the big plants need about 15 gallons, and most tomato plants are in between.

Your box has 1288 cubic inches if filled to the top, there are ~1700 cubic inches in a cubic foot, and there are about ~7.6 gallons per cubic foot; so your pot could maybe hold one tomato plant as it approaches its growth potential.

State your tomato types, your location and zone, and we will see if we can get you on track for some success.

eventully you will need-- another pot, about 10 gallons or more of the correct potting mix, more holes in this container, a moisture meter, the correct fertilizer, and insight into the why's of this stuff.

(the rocks in the bottom are of no help, just serves to decrease the effective capacity of the container)

Stay tuned for more info, but you will be extracting these plants form this soil very soon.

D colo springs

Hiya, Col Springs,

The tomato plants I have are "Patio" and "Yellow Pear"
I live in zone 6 (I think)in NY/Long Island.

They are seriously looking TERRIBLE today! :( All the leaves in the underpart are yellow now...

Your soil mixture - do you have a ratio for all those ingredients? Where do you buy Pine Bark??

We seriously punched a TON Of holes and we put the initial layer of rocks/gravel at the bottom FOR drainage! ACK!

Where do i buy a moisture meter? Thanks!!

you can get a moisture meter at any garden store, Walmart, kmart, Home Despot garden departments. call Home Despot or Lowes or whatever garden store or hardware store is close.

Get pine Bark that is small, meaning small coin size, maybe 3/8". you will need 1-2 cubic foot, (7-15 gallons).

Patio is close to a dwarf 3-5 gallon pot, yellow pear will be BIG if you let it, 7-12 gal pot.

you will be making 10-17 gallons of potting mix.

Carefully almost Bare root your plants and put them in new barely moist soil. The sooner the better.

The ratio would be about 5:1:1 - bark:Perlite:potting mix. I would shoot for 15 gallons of bark, 3 gallons perlite, 3 gallons potting mix.

Stay-green potting mix from Lowes is OK, avoid miracle grow. you wont need much..

good luck

FWIW - the extra holes will do no good, and you can save your money and avoid the purchase of the 'moisture meter'. Your container is indeed very small, but you'll need to decide if you think your plants are worth splitting and bumping (both) to larger containers. It's possible that you might be seeing a fertilizer issue, problems resultant from watering habits, or maybe early blight, but ......

Al

oooh no. here is a picture. Do you think its too late? I'm so sad since one of them is already bearing fruit! The can is just there for scale.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:35045}}

It's not too late at all.
You could pot your tomatoes without disturbing the roots much even.
For my backdeck tomato (Sungold, for the past two years), I always use a large (15 gallon) container.
I'm taking a pic right now.....and here's my set-up, as of ten minutes ago.

{{gwi:35051}}

Josh

Prune the dead leaves off & dispose of them. Be careful not to water the foliage when you water, or to splash soil onto the leaves or stems. They're not very green - have you fertilized? Maybe I missed any comment about that above?

Al

@ Greenman, wow, if only mine looked as healthy! Can I ask what you are using as a potting mix? So no gravel needed at the bottom of the container?
Do you water your plants by filling the outer tub with some water and having the tomatoes suck it up from their roots?

@ Tabla, I did not know about the no-no of splashing soil on the leaves. and no, I have not fertilized what kinds of fertilizer do you suggest and what type of frequency?

Thanks!!!

Smoochas,
The mix is not the best....it's old potting soil, perlite, and what little bark I had left....
I would have preferred to add a greater percentage of bark (like the 5-1-1), but I was between
bags at the time. You got it: No gravel at the bottom!!!

I water from the top, typically - and the tub catches extra. During the hot days of summer,
I do fill the tub. Right now, I'm running the water at lower levels because of mosquitoes and
nightly-visiting raccoons.

I fertilize outdoor vegetables with Osmocote and Miracle Grow (and some organic fertilizers,
Dr. Earth and Alaska Fish Emulsion, for my in-ground garden plants).

Josh

Josh,
What's the soda can for ? :)

I just put a small, not so healthy tomatoe into the 5-1-1 and the difference in the plant in just a few days is Amazing!!

I'll try and post a pic a little later.

JoJo

@ Col Spring, how do you guys mix this stuff if everything is in gallons? Do you have a cut off milk jug or something to use as a measuring device?

@ Josh, is this pine bark the same thing as Mulch? Will the package say Pine Mulch?
I'm wondering if I can find it at Lowes? Or else I recall seeing a bag of Orchid bark (western fir bark) when I was looking to put togethor a succulent potting mix (which I still have not been successful in tracking down all the stuff from Al's recipe... sigh)
So drill holes in the bottom of container and just put the new soil mix in, shake/break off as much of the existing soil as possible from the plants and retry?
Do all tomato plants in our NE winters? Next year I have to start with new plants?

Thanks all!

mixing can be tough, and it does have to be WELL blended.
I use a MONSTER tuperware container about 48x 24 x20.

tomatos are annuals, and do not winter over. If you have open pollentated you can use their seeds.

Fir bark is fine.

gallons is not importaant as long as you use the same container to measure everything, and keep good track of the count. Its a ratio thing.

Be gentle with the de-soiling of the roots. keep the roots damp, dont break roots or stems. get most of the old soil off and dont be a perfectionist. Place in dry new mix and just wait. dont over love them, just do a decent job.

What JOJO said= very good.

d

Jojo....VERY GOOD what you said!!!

Josh, I was wondering if ou forgot to drink the rest of your soda??lol

Al, great vice as always..

Col springs, You are so right!! For me it is a ratio thing, unless I am adding an ingredient per gallon..Sort of like tablespoon of lime per gallon of mix..

Smoochas, tomatoes are so tough to kill!!! For me anyway..Keeping them healthy and fruitful is a different story...Keep them in a soil that drains well and they will take off and stay nice and green along with a good fertilizer..

Keep the in a soil that is such as you stated, they may stay stunted and yellow, but may not die..Watch out for blight..

Mike

Thanks, guys and gals!
The can is just there for scale....!

Did you look at Smoochas' pic? I wanted to offer a reference.

Josh

Hi All,
Josh, no I did not see the post with link.. somehow I missed it..LOL!

smoochas,
alot are finding pine bark at Homedepot and such. You just reallly need to watch , alot have alot of sapwood in them that is not good for the mix.

My tomato is improving every day, and my computer is being a pain! I will get the pics up as soon as I can.

I think the 5-1-1 is the best way to go!

here's a link, with info from others and where they are finding their materials.

I hope it helps.

JoJo

Here is a link that might be useful: Supplies by State/Region

Hey, JoJo!
Computer troubles...terrible!
Related to the heat?

Josh

LOL!! Josh!!

Hello..:)

No, don't think the heat..:) We were only 84! yesterday and not too bad today..LOL!!! I think we outgrew it and need to up our storage space.

JoJo

Alright guys. There was several times that I wanted to ditch the quest. I can't you how many hours I spend searching and calling to find APBF and having no luck. Finally, I was lucky enough to find everything including the elusive Aged Pine Bark Fines! On a side note, I was surprised to see the Pine Bark Fines look almost like soil and well, less mulch-y!

Not sure it was the smartest timing to transplant my tomatoes in 90degree weather, especially with buds and baby tomatoes on them both! BUT it was already way overdue! I shook off as much of the old potting soil as possible. Man, the yellow pear have a CRAZY giant root system compared to the patio! I've given them water and they are sitting in the shade now. Should I give them only minimal sun for a week before giving them full sun again?

If they were in full sun before you transplanted - you might wait a day or so, but put them right back in full sun. If they weren't in full sun, they need to be acclimated over the course of a few days.

Al

"I also have another trough with rosemary, basil and mint... they are not growing very vigorously and there is also quite a bit of brown & yellow leaves for the basil and mint."

No wonder!! Rosemary, basil and mint need three totally different water amounts and conditions. Having them in the same planter is a n-no. Pop on over to the herb forums, and before you post, do a search of these, and you'll find all the info you need.
Batya (mostly a lurker here but I couldn't resist s/he sounded so unhappy)

Batya,
It's very nice of you to post. That is very useful information. I grow herbs, and didn't even catch the mix that smoochas has.

Smoochas,
I am sorry I am so late posting these photos.. Have had my hands full.
They are not the best in the world, but good enough to show how much and fast my plant perked up in the 5-1-1

This was a seedling my dad started for me, I would never have heard the end of it if I let it die! ROFL!

Al~you and your mixes are a lifesaver! ;)

OH, and it was well over 90's when I did mine. I grow mine in late day shade, we get so hot here. And it's doing awsome! Never skipped a beat and is now double what it was, and doing better than the ones in the ground.

It was in the standard seed starting mix when I got it, and am embarassed to say, sat in it too long, yellowed and lost alot of leaves.

Here are the pics, done about 2 weeks ago..

I will try and get another updated photo today.. there is NO yellow left on it now. (and one that's not blury! lol! its been windy and hard to get photos)

{{gwi:35052}}

{{gwi:35053}}

Best Wishes!
I'm sure you will be happy and decide the materials were worth it and before long, like many of us, move everything into it..:)

JoJo

@Jojo, thanks so much for posting the pics! Yah, I was afraid mine were starting to go down the same road! the bottoms were always yellow and it looked like it was creeping upwards! Its only been a couple of days and I don't want to jinx myself but I swear I think its doing better already! blooms are not shriveling up and turning brown anymore!

@batya, hi! Thanks for the recommendation! gosh, so all those mixed herb containers that I see at the big-stores are a giant no-no? I guess all these die over winter anyways, right?

Hey, Smoochas!
I hope you don't mind an update pic! My tomato has more than doubled in the past 12 days:
{{gwi:35054}}

Josh

I don't know if anyone mentioned but I would pull off any tomatoes/flowers when you transplant. The plants shouldn't be bearing fruit at that size. The reason the plant is doing this is because it's stressed and wants to complete it's life cycle (reproduce) and then die.

Josh,
Awsome plant!

I think mine has doubled too! And it now has buds! were over 100 these days and they are sposed to be slowing down! LOL! It is growing much better than it's sibling in the ground! The bottom growth which is new, (you can tell from first pic, it had none) is now about 10" in length!

You should have seen the look on my moms face when I told her what it was planted in! LOL!

Anyway, it's hard to belive this is the same plant as the sick little yellow one first posted!!!

All I did was move it into the 5-1-1 and give a little MG here and there!!

Smoochas, I dont think your imagining things or will jinx anything! Mine showed improvement is just 3 or 4 days!

My camera is sposed to date pics and isn't, I need to look into that. But I belive I planted this in just under 3 weeks ago. I will try and figure out some dates a little later.

{{gwi:35055}}

{{gwi:35056}}

The plant in the background is it's sibling, started from seed at same time.

{{gwi:35057}}

JoJo

I'm jealous of ALL of your green thumbs- esp. Josh & JoJo!

But I have bad news! The leaves look like they are slowly turning yellow! I just read melikeeatplant's remark to pull the fruits off. Should I??

Are the plants really stressed? I agree, they are NOT very tall (maybe 15-17 inches at most!) and already have fruits on both of them - initially I thought that may be due to planting them early... how do I know if I am giving them enough water?? or overwatering??

So far I have been giving them weekly Miraclegro All Plants food. 24-8-16

Hi Smoochas,
I'm sorry to hear!
Now, I"m far from having a green thumb! lol! I would say it's more because of the very patient people who have helped me along, mainly Al and Josh. :)

Hopefully one of them will be along today to help you out!

It may be they are just taking a little more time than mine to adjust to the mix.

It probably wouldn't hurt to remove the fruit so the plant has more energy into getting back on track. Are they showing any signs of new growth?

You will get another crop in the fall.

Hang in there! :)

JoJo

Hi Jojo, yup, there was a ton of blooms right after I planted in the new mix and more fruits from them but now I'm worried because of the yellowing of the bottom leaves (again!)

{{gwi:35058}}

{{gwi:35059}}

Could be a Magnesium deficiency? I was thinking you had a Nitrogen deficiency until you posted using Miracle Grow. It looks like the plants might need some epsom salts. That will provide the Magnesium and Calcium, that miracle grow doesn't have.

Smoochas; what specifically is the mix you blended-- exact ingrediants and ratio? any lime or fertilizer? what is your watering? sunshine, temperature and the finger test for dampness?

d colo springs

@Urbangardener, you might be right about the Mg deficiency! I will have to find some Epsom salt asap - from the drugstore is okay? Do I add this once a week during my watering?

@d colo springs, I have a feeling I am overwatering them then! I've NEVER done a finger test for dampness! You mean sticking a finger in the soil? Nope! I just water then every other day (often wondering, am I pouring too much/too little?)
Eep, I'm such a newb!

My mix is exactly the 5-1-1 mix. I did lots of small batches of this (so it would be easier for me to mix:)
6 quart soil conditioner (aged pain bark fines)
1 quart miracle-gro moisture control potting mix
1 quart perlite
2 tbsp lime

We are getting 90+ degree heat here right now (its nasty!) and the pots are on the west side of the house, so maybe 6+ hrs everyday?

Smoochas, good work!
You'll get them up and running in no time!
What are the drainage holes like? Add a wick if you suspect that the mix is holding too much water.
As the roots colonize the mix, and as the plants grow larger, you'll notice a dramatic difference in
water uptake.

Can you poke a dowel or chop-stick in the pot (like an oil dip-stick) to tell you how moist the soil is?

Is there any way you can give them morning sun?

(JoJo, your plants look wonderful, too!)


Josh

As you can tell we are using a proces of elimination/decison-making to help with your dilema.

The check list includes determining status of each of the following:
Plant selection, soil/mix make-up, container size and drainage, water regiment, temperature range, light, nutritonal make up, insects, disease, etc.

We have an "OK" on many now, but you may have had more than one problem area to start- now we have to find the remaining one(s), so dont get discouraged.

Good Watering in containers means that the pot does not get too dry and does not stay too wet. Some growers go for tight moisture control keeping things in a real tight range, some go for looser controls but staying away from the extremes.

So before watering, check at mid pot level for moisture level; if dry dry you are late, if still wet wet you are early. if just kinda moist - then about right. Water till some water drips out the drainage holes, then wait till dries to kinda just moist again. Some will debate the exact definintion of the terms, but the principle is the same.

REmove the fruit, your plant needs the energy- the fruit would be marginal anyway. remove growth beyond the recovery-able stage.

Check your amount of fertilzer, it may be weak for containers- the plant is almost totally dependant on what you give it, there is very little inherent in the potting mix. Organics dont work too good in these containers, water soluable nutrients is what is needed as it is more controllable.

anyway these are some of the principles, hope this helps.

D

Where can one find aged pine bark? At Lowes or Home Depot? At a local nursery?

All of the above! The key is to make sure that the product is consistent from bag to bag.
When you find the right stuff, buy extra.

In my area, Greenall brand Micro Bark and E.B. Stone's fine-grade Orchid Bark are great.

Josh

I am growing tomatoes in an Earthbox and they are doing well.
This is what I do:
Plant the seedling in Miracle Grow Potting Mix.
Water once a day usually in mid morning or early morning. My plants get shade in the morning and by the middle of the day to early afternoon they are getting full sun. Sometimes I mist them when it is really hot. I fertilize once every 1 or 2 weeks. Here is a shot of my plants:
{{gwi:35060}}
{{gwi:35061}}
{{gwi:35062}}

Smoochas, I don't think anyone mentioned the size of your plants. Are you aware that the patio is determinate, and should be smaller than the yellow pear, which is indeterminate? I've had Patio every year (in swc on my balcony, and once in the yard) and they've always done well, but don't get more than 3-4'. The one year I grew yellow pear, it was falling half over it's 5-6' cage. So don't be upset if one gets bigger than the other, it's not a bad thing.

Next year, get some Micro Tom seeds and plant those in your windowbox (with the good mix). They only get 8" tall, and the tomatoes are tasty!

See, it's all about proportion...the plant, the pot, the mix, the fertilizer...

msaunt

Also, you asked if your herbs would over winter. I have my basil and rosemary in separate pots, and move the swc inside for the winter. I keep them in front of my 8' south facing patio door, and they do fine, but note, that is a ton of light. I keep cutting them back so they don't get too spindly. In the past, when I have been in places with poor light, the rosemary dies very quickly, and the basil would make to about January and croak. If you don't get as much winter light as I do, you could try some grow lights, if you really want fresh herbs all winter.

msaunt

Smoocha,
It sounds like you've learned a lot about growing your tomatoes in containers. Next year will be even easier!
Tomatoes in containers need to be fertilized more regularly than those in the ground because frequent watering leaches nutrients out of the pots. I fertilize mine every 7-14 days. Try using a fertilizer with a balance for tomatoes, such as Miracle Grow for Tomatoes or Tomato Tone.
There's a lot of good info at the link below -- including links that list best tomato varieties for containers and best potting mixes for container tomatoes.
Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Dirt:: Growing Tomatoes in Pots