Calcium and Mg comes from lime..

I would definately re-read some of the posts that explains the purpose for liming your soil and it's properties in the 5.1.1.so it sticks with you as I had to do, unless Al comes and explains again....

They do well in the 5.1.1 mix if made properly..Mine does well and has grown a ton since I potted it into it..

If you should decide to use the gritty mix, then use gypsum for calcium and epsom salts for Mg.

Your plants will do well in both. The gritty mix will last a alot longer. Both drain very well and correctly if made correctly..

One hint, if you want a ton of flowers, just keep it in a very cool enviroment..;-)

Mike

Here is a link that might be useful: soil discussion in detail

Calcium and Mg comes from lime..

I would definately re-read some of the posts that explains the purpose for liming your soil and it's properties in the 5.1.1.so it sticks with you as I had to do, unless Al comes and explains again....

They do well in the 5.1.1 mix if made properly..Mine does well and has grown a ton since I potted it into it..

If you should decide to use the gritty mix, then use gypsum for calcium and epsom salts for Mg.

Your plants will do well in both. The gritty mix will last a alot longer. Both drain very well and correctly if made correctly..

One hint, if you want a ton of flowers, just keep it in a very cool enviroment..;-)

Mike

Here is a link that might be useful: soil discussion in detail

Mike,

I already knew all that stuff.

I was talking specifically about osmanthus fragrans because of the fact it didn't grow fast nor the root system developed as rapidly as I'm used to trees... I thought there must be something else since it's my first year growing them. It's growing in 5 1 1 mix. I probably didn't use dolomitic lime so I'll use that next time. I got yellow, orange and red coming so i want to maximize growth so i don't have to wait a long time for them to reach 4' size for them to start flowrering...

I have had mine in the gritty for over three years. It still grows slow. It's the slowest plant I got. It does bloom a little from time to time. When I dead head mine it encourages bloom. Don't know about the calcium. Take care. filix.

I do own one....Mine grows like crazy, in the 5.1.1.mix. Very slow in any type bagged mixes...

That is why I was trying to help you...I will post a pic in a day or two..

Happy growing..

Mike;-)
Mike

Thanks. I'll have to look for the amount of dolomitic lime for 3 or 5g container size. Al doesn't list that in his threads, just for large batch so I'll have to look through countless number of threads to find it. I know I asked him about it and wrote down the amount but I have no idea where that piece of paper is.

Thanks. I better get the mix ready for osmanthus fragrans when they get here in a couple weeks.

Dolomitic (garden) lime for the 5:1:1 mix or similar: 1 tbsp/gallon of soil or 1/3 - 1/2 cup/cu ft.

Al

Thanks Al! Duh, that would have been easy to remember. 1 tbsp per gallon.... I always go by gallons. Just easier that way if I need to whip up a mix right away for individual container...

Lou

I have been growing all kinds of Osmanthus in Canada for a while. 5-1-1 is the primary soil I use, I just started on the gritty mix. The problem with the gritty mix is the repotting. Most of the trees we got from nursery are raised in peat and bark based soil, if you just pot up, there would be two distinct types of soil in the same container. It's very hard to water it right, the gritty mix is draining dramatically faster than 5-1-1. After a while, the center of the pot is bone dry.

I make my own 5-1-1 plus 1 part turface and 1 part chicken grit, I don't even add the lime. But you have to make sure you are using a complete fertilizer like foliage pro which has 1% Calcium and 0.5 Mg. But I found that Osmanthus really like low salt level, so use with caution. Also Osmanthus grows better with Organic based fertilizers like Pure Blend Pro

The Osmanthus is responding very well. But Osmanthus in general is not a fast grower, it grows in flushes.

Hey yellowthumb..How are you?

I am very confused in what you said..

"The problem with the gritty mix is the repotting. Most of the trees we got from nursery are raised in peat and bark based soil, if you just pot up, there would be two distinct types of soil in the same container. It's very hard to water it right, the gritty mix is draining dramatically faster than 5-1-1. After a while, the center of the pot is bone dry"

If what you saying is what I am thinking, I don't understand why you would have a problem with the gritty mix..All I do is rinse out all the old soil, without hurting the roots, and put into gritty mix..I have no problem with the way it drys out. My plants LOVE both...Hum.
Watering is never a problem, and my gritty mix dries out evenly...

P.s...Be careful about the lime thing. There is a reason why it has been suggested to use it..:-). I tried the 5.1.1 mix without liming, and you will not like the results eventually...

Mike:-)

Hi Mike,

I am good and busy as usual, thanks.

What I mean is not a full repoting. Just pot up without removing the old soil.

I never had the gut to completely bare root the Osmanthus, they take such a long time to recover from the shock and will lose awful amount of leaves. I just basically go with the 5-1-1, and gradually pot up and eventually a root prune.

As for the liming, so far I have not noticed any difference between liming and not liming. But I am using the foliage Pro and pure blend pro fertilizer which has the 1% calcium and 0.5% Mg. I think a constant supplement of Calcium and Mg is important, even if you lime at the very beginning, they will leach out eventually. BTW, I have been using rain water all time. If your water is kind of hard, you will get lots of Cal and Mg from the water. I have a very accurate PH meter, so far my containers PH value is around 5.8 to 6.5 which is OK for most acid loving tropicals.

Did you see any side effects of not liming the 5-1-1? I understand that it could be a bit on the too acid side.

One reason for not liming is because i'm afraid that I'd be adding too much ca/mg to the mix via irrigation. I live on limestone bedrock and we get water from nearby lake so I figure I may be getting plenty of ca/mg. I usually forget to use lime for most trees and never saw any problems but then again I don't know what to look for. What happens if plants do not get enough ca/mg?

Last year, I asked around Gardenweb about osmanthus fragrans growing in alkaline soil and this person said that they were grown in thin alkaline soil in China so I guess that answered my question because I basically live on limestone rubbles... I planted one in the ground recently so time will tell if it will thrive or not. I sure hope so..

This can happen...

{{gwi:54840}}

{{gwi:54841}}

{{gwi:54842}}

When my soiless mix was not limed properly, most my plants suffered nutional loss, especially in the Iron department..
It also affected nutrient uptake such as Mg and Calcium..The needs of my plants were not met and out of whack a period of time and I suffered extensive loss..

As for the the point that lou brought about about irrigation water, I will leave that for the experts..

Maybe each persons cituation is different, but as awhole, even the professional bagged mixes are limed prior to selling for good reason I guess..

Here is a picture of my plant in limed 5.1.1. mix..

It has grown about 5 inches this summer and continues to do so...The flowers are numerous in the am, but once the warm sun gets to it, the flowers fade quickly..

Good luck everyone.:-)

{{gwi:54843}}

Yes, to lime or not, or how much to lime, you really need a systemic evaluation of your environment, especially the plants you grow, the water and fertilizer you use. But I think it's a good idea for the bagged soil (most are limed to be 6.5 based on my own test) to be limed, given that most fertilizers are most available to plants in the PH range of 6 to 6.7. They have to accommodate for average gardeners and most plants, most plants do well in this range, even gardenias and camellias. But Gardenia thrives better at the stronger acid side, say 5.7 or even 5.5, some avid gardeners at south China, they use solely coarse absorbent sand, pine bark, peat moss and pine tree needle compost to make the container medium, which is on the stronger acid side. The gardenia and Camellias are flourishing. They use only rain water and composted soy bean meal tea as the fertilizer.

The only way you can be sure is to investigate an accurate PH and EC meter, then you can tell how acid is the soil and how much resolved fert in the soil. This meter can get expensive.

Mike, you Osmanthus is looking good. The foliage is a nice green. But the leaves are a bit on the spare side. Normally one flush can grow up to 8 leaves in a twig, most of yours are two. Mine has 6 or 8 all the time. Are you giving it enough sun? Or it could be a specific variety, I am not sure. I will post a picture of my Osmanthus recently, it's so bushy. So fare I have the Gold, Silver and Four Seasons variety. In the four seasons, I have FudingZhu, TianXiangTaiGe and RiXiangGui. FudingZhu is my all time favorite. But the RiXiangGui is flourishing for me as well. It's a four seasons, blooms more than 300 days in a year and the flower is gold, which is rare for four season. The fragrance is so much stronger.
Take care.

YT

Yellowthumb,

How did you get your hands on RiXiangGui? I sure would love to have one.

Interesting about having 8 leaves on a twig per flush. I don't recall seeing that many per flush. I thought it may be too hot in full sun during the summer when I was away for a vacation and I had to move it to where everything are irrigated automatically every day. Who knows? I try to give it half day of sun with no afternoon sun during the summer.

Hi Lou,

I got it from ebay, yes, they are hard to get. But I think you could import it from China. Not hard to do if you live in the States.

Here is something I found on the internet regarding how dolomite lime and Micromax affecting container ornamentals with organic mix. The mix they are researching is pine bark and peat moss at the rate of 3:1. Here is the link
http://www.ag.auburn.edu/aaes/communications/publications/ornamentals99/woody/limemicro.html

I am more interested with the azalea case since most of my plants are acid loving.

yellowthumb....Hi!!

That's it..The one I have grows exactly like you described and in FULL sun.. It is healthy and grows fast, but I have heard of other species that perform much better.

The mother tree which is years old looks exactly like this..I actually called the place where I got it and sent a picture, and they said it is the way it grows. It is normal for this species......

I would love to have one that grows like what your explaining, or have..Could you e-mail me privately and tell where I can get one or hook me up?....I remember you telling me of a species that do exactly what yours does, and I have yet to get my hands on one..

Thankyou so much...I will look forward to hearing from you..We have some catching up to do besides...:-)!

mikerno_1@yahoo.com