Software
Houzz Logo Print
donnieappleseed

more fertilizer questions

15 years ago

I feel very weak in my knowledge of soil amendments. A few specific questions:

1. I came across a few links recently that reference people in Maine and Vermont that are restoring and rejuvenating seedling apple trees in wild areas not for human consumption but to increase productivity for wildlife.....this intrigued me. One forester recommended using lime as a fertilizer the first year on these wild apple trees, let it settle in, and then maybe in a year or so use a balanced type fertilizer (like a 16-16-8 or something like that....could reference his exact rec if anyone interested). But anyway, my question is this: does it make sense to use lime to help restore some old apple trees in public spaces? Is there any science behind this?

2. Similarly, gypsum is offered in many places to break up clay soils....and some swear by the stuff....does it really do any good?

3. Finally, Saturday, someone was talking with me about soil amendments on an old orchard I work on that slopes down to a salmon stream.....she was adamant about not having much in the way of nitrogen added to this old orchard as it would hurt the salmon.....this orchard has basically had nothing added to it for years and years....any suggestions welcome to consider and think about

Comments (4)

  • 15 years ago

    donnie:

    Lime can be very helpful in areas with acidic soils, like much of the humid eastern USA. It is generally not needed or helpful in the west where soils tend to be high pH.

    Gypsum, calcium sulfate, may have a place where soils are alkaline with high levels of sodium. The idea is to displace the sodium in the soil with calcium. High sodium levels can ruin soil structure. The clays run together and soil aeration is reduced. High sodium and reduced aeration would be a double whammy for fruit trees.

    Nitrates leaching into streams are potentially bad for salmon. So applying nitrogen to any crop could be a factor worth considering.

  • 15 years ago

    Start out with a soil test for both macro (N-P-K-S) nutrients and micronutrients (nearly all the rest), then fertilize accordingly.

    Using nitrogen on an old orchard that slopes towards a stream is no problem if done with care. After getting a soil test to see what is needed, apply the nitrogen keeping in mind that nitrogen in the stream = wasted money. A little nitrogen runoff won't hurt the fish, but it contributes to moss and algae growth which is not helpful. You just want to make sure that the nitrogen will go into the ground and not wash off on the surface. The ground hopefully has grass or other ground cover that will slow the movement of water so that it soaks into the soil and filters any soil particles out of water that does run off. Several light applications are better than one heavy application as far as the potential to run off into the stream goes.

    Also, have a filter strip between the end of the orchard and stream--a solid grassy area that will slow and clean any runoff water before it enters the stream. Talk to your local Conservation District or Natural Resources Conservation Service office for more details and other ideas. Your taxes are paying them to be there to answer your questions. Don't let your taxes or nitrogen go to waste!

  • 15 years ago

    I agree with most of the good advice preceding and would add not to pay much attention to a random forester. The only nutrient that consistently creates a vigor response for trees in most soils is N and additional P is often not needed at all, at least in the soils in the northeast.

    K becomes an issue when it is being carried out of a site in the form of crop. Presumably animals feeding on the fruit would tend to leave in excrement about what they consumed.

    Soil tests don't really tell you what's needed like a map can direct you where to drive and they aren't in my opinion always essential. In commercial orchards where you need to tweek things to max efficiency, soil tests are used in conjunction with leaf analysis.

    Soil tests probably represent about a third of the total info provided by both tests and this info is only part of the evidence a grower acts on when determining nutritional needs. Observation of apples, foliage and soil take an equal role.

    Cornell does offer a maintanence nutrient management program in their "Pest Management Guidelines for Commercial Tree-Fruit Production" which last I checked can be found on-line. I assume this info is for commercial growers getting satisfactory production and aren't doing test based management.

    I do consider pH adjustment an essential part of fruit tree care and this has to be done in conjunction with analysis.

  • 15 years ago

    It would be tedious if I say "thank you" too many times....
    but I will say this and then be done with it..... that even though I know a few things about this and that........ it is still quite nice to come to a forum that have people who know more about so many of these topics than I do.
    (small note: Seattle soils often acidic, actually...this is why blueberries do well here)