Nick:

There are quite a number of blackberry varieties, with widely varying growth habits. Some need no support, but for others it is essential. We need to know what variety you intend to plant to offer you advice. Your nursery should know the names of the varieties they are selling. If not, look elsewhere. If you want to plant the variety of your local berry farm, ask them what they are growing.

Blackberries normally do not need substantial amounts of chemical fertilizers in ordinary soil (not pure clay and rocks), but can benefit greatly from mulching at least once a year to gradually feed the plants and retain moisture. I use large amounts of stable manure around my trailing thornless Doyle and Triple Crown blackberries, and they are very healthy and productive. Other mulches, such as shredded leaves or even sawdust can also be used. Trailing thornless blackberries are very productive per square foot, but they have long, flexible canes, and I have built strong, permanent support structures for all of them. They are worth the extra trouble.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

jellyman,

Thanks for the response. I'm located in east TX, the recommended variety here are Brazos, Navaho, apache, arapaho, Rosborough, Kiowa(i think) to name a few.

Well thanks, Nick, for the recommended varieties, but what is the one you have decided to plant -- if you have decided?

As far as I know, all the varieties you list are thorny, and I would never again plant a thorny blackberry. I have been down that road, and clearing out the old canes, as well as picking the berries, are chores that are most unpleasant with thorny blackberries -- unless you are interested in donating some blood. Blackberry thorns will go right through a cowhide glove. I used to hate cleaning out the old canes.

Thornless blackberries are just as good, or better, than any thorny variety, and seem more disease resistant in the bargain. If you want a lot of very good blackberries, and I mean a lot, find a source for the Doyle blackberry and plant that. Just build a nice, strong trellis for them. You will never regret it if you like blackberries. Doyle will outproduce any of the varieties you list, and maybe all of them together, and they will do fine in East Texas.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Thanks for the advice jellyman and fruitgirl.

I didnt realize the thorned plants were such a pain, I figured it was a minor inconvenience at most. I guess I will pick the thornless varieties. On which exact varieties, I havent decided. Probably kiowa, apache and navajo. Thats what a local respected nursery here has. They have brazos and rosborough too. But I think they're thorned.

I've seen a lot of references to chill hours. What exactly is a chill hour? Time below 32F?

Fruitgirl, do the thornless ones require trellising?

Kiowa isn't thornless, and it's thorns are actually larger than a lot of other thorny varieties.

There are a lot of other sources for the Arkansas blackberry varieties. If you go to the link I provided, you can read descriptions of all of the varieties from the Arkansas program, and find a list of licensed propagators. I know Indiana Berry has a number of the Arkansas cultivars, and they do mail order.

Apache sometimes gets white drupelets (the individual little "bumps" that make up the blackberry are called drupelets). There's really no known cause, possibly sun exposure and possibly genetic. Anyway, I thought you might want to be informed before you buy.

The thornless ones don't really require a trellis, but harvesting is easier if you have one. The simple one I described will work nicely.

Are you familiar with how to prune/train blackberries? If not, you'll need to find some info on that. I believe NC State has a good publication on-line (it's called something like Growing Blackberries in North Carolina...try googling it).

Chill hours are most simply defined as hours below 45.

Here is a link that might be useful: Arkansas blackberry varieties

Thanks fruitgirl. I'll look into it. The only thing Im familiar with is eating them! ;)

Nick:

Thanks to Fruitgirl for pointing out that not all of the newer Arkansas blackberry varieties you list are thorny. As I said, they were thorny "as far as I know", and I didn't know far enough. Based on my experience, I would definitely avoid the thorny types.

Like many others, I tend to favor and recommend varieties I have planted and that have performed well for me. Hence my enthusiasm for Triple Crown and Doyle which have produced excellent crops for me for nearly ten years. That does not mean at all that some of the Arkansas varieties are not very good. I have heard some complaints of insufficient chill hours to grow TC and Doyle from the Texas Gulf Coast, but not from inland areas. For years, the only nursery selling the (then) patented Doyle was at Wylie, Texas which is located in Northeast Texas.

When you make your final choices of blackberry varieties, you will notice that there are some differences in the height of the canes. However, I think it is fair to say that all blackberries can benefit from some support, even if it is just a wire stretched over the row to tie up the canes. The canes become heavier when laden with fruit, and wind is always a threat. Of course, you can prune blackberry canes down, usually without much loss of crop, and with the very long, trailing types pruning is essential.

One other factor to consider when planting blackberries is disease susceptibility, and you might ask your local pick-your-own planters about that. Years ago, when I grew the old thorny variety Darrow, I had constant problems with crown gall, and what I believe were viral problems on the leaves. The trailing thornless have shown no disease of any kind, and this may also be characteristic of the new varieties from the Univ. of Arkansas.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

I live in central Indiana and have the Doyle Thornless berries. Off of 5 plants I harvested 175 pounds on their 3rd year. It takes a really strong trellis system for support. One reason being is that they produce new canes while last years canes are bearing fruit. They have to be tended to about once a week and tied up to the trellis during the summer. All of the fruiting canes are cut out because they won't bear again.

A couple of thoughts from this new berry grower down here in the deep South. With regards to the thorny varieties if you want LARGE berries and don't mind the thorns, you may want to consider Kiowa and Rosebourgh. The only descriptive word that does them any justice is "honkers". I call my Roseboroughs little pineapples and the Kiowas on average are larger than the Roseboroughs. I also grow a variety of thornless, but for size these two are by far the biggest. With regards to trellising the Doyles, I have two sets of wires strung on my 8 foot spaced posts. One set of 5 wires (one foot apart) runs along the east side of the posts while the other set runs along the west side. This way the floricanes can be productive on one side while the new primocanes can be strapped to the wire set on the other side. This comes in real handy when it comes to pruning out the spent floricanes after harvest plus the new primocanes add some additional afternoon shade during our hot summers. By the way, remember to leave the Doyle floricanes on the trellis for at least 60 days after harvest before you prune them so the residual nutrients can make their way down to the root system to help them make it through the winter. Just some thoughts as I still have a lot to learn about growing berries, but these are a couple of suggestions that have worked for me.

I've read that some of the erect varieties need to be topped off at a certain height. Seems like its usually between 36" and 45", depending on variety. If they arent topped and are instead trellisted, will they produce more berries?

Thanks,

Nick

Nope, they'll produce less fruit if you don't top them. During the growing season, you should top the primocanes (the "new" canes that aren't fruiting) somewhere around 4'. This allows lateral (side) branches to form. During the dormant season, you should remove all of the spent floricanes (the ones that fruited) and shorten the lateral branches to ~18".

You'll have fruit on all of the laterals that develop instead of only along one cane.

Semi-erect varieties should also be tipped, but you can generally let them get a bit higher before doing so.

Trailing varieties are usually not tipped.

Thanks for the info fruitgirl.

When they say a blackberry plant is erect, does that really mean it doesnt need any support at all? Or does it not work that way realistically and needs a support either way?

Thanks.

Nick:

They mean it is erect until it falls over, which it is likely to do if it gets much over 4 feet tall. These are not rigid rules that apply to every plant. Maybe not all of yours would fall over. Most would, if they get a good fruit load and a little wind. That's why Fruitgirl suggested topping them at around four feet.

If you don't want to support them, try it without a support and see how it works out. If they fall over, all doubt will be removed.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

As Don said, it's best to trellis them. All you need are t-posts set a few feet apart (maybe 3-4?) and some bailing twine.

fruitgirl,jellyman,

I appreciate you guys helping me out. For my erect berries (apache and kiowa) Im guessing I just tie the lateral branches to the trellis twine? What do you use to tie the branches to the trellis twine? If you have a picture of your berries trellised that would help. Thanks you guys.

Nick

You don't have to tie the canes to the trellis at all. The bailing twine is simply to support the canes as they may lean over a bit when they're heavy with fruit.

HI everyone,
I planted triple crown last Oct. I put up a trellis and
mulched them. Is there anything that I should do this spring when and if the snow ever leaves.
Jim

Jim
As you may already be seeing at this pointl, just sit back and watch the triple crown become your favorite blackberry plant. The are Aromatic, Large, Juicy and produce very well. You will not be sorry with Triple Crown

Here 30 miles from the Gulf, Doyles are a great big ZERO, three years and NO berries. On top of that the fine gentlemen at the Wylie,Tx nursery lied to me that they would produce here. Even worse was the waste of $20 for a single plant. I'll take roseborough and thorns any day as they produce like crazy, 20 feet of row producing more jelly than I can eat. I'll have to make pancake syrup this year as my freezer is full of mayhaw, blackberry, kumquat marmalade, and muscadine jelly

Here is a link that might be useful: mrtexas

I might be a little late with this post, but I have a section of fence that needs blackberries. I would prefer thornless, but I.m on the coast, so maybe I won't have enough chilling hours. I'm thinking Roseborough, but darn the thorns.

I planted some Triple Crowns for the first time this spring and am a little confused now on how long I should let the canes get. They are doing very well so far but some of the canes have probably reached seven feet. Should I start tipping them when they reach four feet to allow more growth?

Thanks,

Mark

I tip my triple crowns at about chest high. Its at the top of the trellis wire. somewhere around 4 ft.

At 7 feet. I would be tip rooting them to get more plants.

Mine are usually ready to be tipped around the beginning to middle of June. At this point a would tip root them. You will get a few more plants next year.

Back to the original post. My trellis is a simple V trellis. One post on each end and 2 single wires at about 3 feet. spread 2 feet apart Looks just alike a t. You tie the fruiting wood to the wires and it shapes a V. the new growth comes up the middle. Since it doesnt have fruit and they are an erect variety they grown straight up the middle. After harvest cut out the spent wood and tie the new growth to the trellis wires. Repeat. It also saves confusion on which canes get pruned out if you wait to long to prune them out. You prune the ones tied to the wires.

I hope that makes sense.