Rotenone (pyrethrin) is actually more lethal than many synthesized pyrethroids. It's primary advantage/disadvantage is it's not as persistent. This means it doesn't last in the environment as long, so you have to spray more often to get it back in the environment, to kill your pests.

How often you have to spray depends on what you use, and local pest pressure. Since you have problems with OFM, it's likely you'll need season long control (as the moth lays eggs all season). With a synthetic pyrethroid like permethrin, that Don mentions, you can probably spray every couple weeks. With Rotenone, it's going to have to be much more frequently. An alternative is to bag your fruits with footies, which is popular with many on the forum.

olpea, rotenone is not pyrethrin, but the two are sometimes sold as a combo spray. I don't think either rotenone or pyrethrin are strong enough to kill enough moths, and ditto for neem oil. Rotenone is also pretty nasty stuff. The only organic spray that works on moths is spinosad, a virus. I think the home grower version is Monterey Garden Insect Spray.

Scott

Boston is pretty close to my domain and OFM never bothers my peaches after about 20 days after petal fall. It is only the growing shoots that are fed on by this pest later in the season in my experience (many sites, many trees). This causes the flagging of young shoots and reduces growth considerably as well as destorting training.

Never tried it for this pest, but as I recall, BT is said to be affective with persistance- that at least is a poison not toxic to us.

Although peaches started from seed are often close to parent as is the case with many self fertile fruit, for some reason root suckers have often produced trees that produce tiny, slightly off flavored white peaches in my experience. I don't know about the seed sources for common peach rootstocks. What is a Bailey peach for instance- what about Nemaguard? Why don't I know this?

To protect your peaches you probably only need to apply insecticide 3 times if you're using Permethrin, if it is as persistant as Sevin. You can look that up, I'm just too tired.

I only need 2 applications of Imidan, one at petal fall and one 10 to 14 days later to get sound peaches, apples, plums, etc. I recommend Sevin in a tighter 3 round schedule but only use that chemical for Jap beetles myself. I never get a single worm in peaches with my schedule- some of my customers are very squeemish.

For scab and brown rot I recommend Indar, but for a small home grower it is just too expensive. For organic control, Scott is suggesting a product called, I think, Saf-T-Oil, Saf-T something, anyway, although he is only aware of research done in CA with it. I don't need any BR control until about a month before Red Haven's season. Never had blossum blight (early brown rot).

As far as application, you usually only need about an hour of good drying conditions after an application although rain will reduce the length of protection, how much depends on the product and I guess a good sticker can help but for Imidan I'm not sure. It sticks real well without it and the manufacturer doesn't recommend a sticker.

I can't be as picky as Don on my spray timing or I would be 2 weeks into the season before all the trees were covered with a single application.

I have just purchased permethrin(36%) for my peach tree and the directions have no recommended dose per gal for fruit trees. any recommendations??

rstone:

Where did you find permethrin with 36% active ingredient? Is it a liquid concentrate? Permethrin sold on the consumer market at nurseries and bigbox stores is 2.5% active ingredient; 97.5% inert. I mix 1 1/2-2 oz. liquid per gallon in my sprayer. I always figure 1 oz. = 3 level tablespoons if you are using that measure.

You may have somehow got hold of a commercial formulation intended for mixing in very large tanks. If so, and the stuff you have is really 36%, it is close to 15 times stronger than what I use. You can do the math, but it looks as if you will be measuring in fractions of teaspoons, or with an eyedropper if you are using anything like a 2 1/2 gallon - 4 gallon sprayer. For smaller amounts, such as enough to spray one tree, you may literally be talking about drops.

Is it possible that you have misread the label?

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Yes, it did come from a commercial supplier and between my husband and I we fiqured (recommendation for ornamental trees) about 1 oz for 3 gal. The directions have nothing about fruit trees....how often do you use and how long after spraying to hold off picking? We have 6 (home orchard) trees that have (I believe) the dreaded borer. Clear sap oozing from trees and a few peaches. I concentrated my spraying to the trunk and lower branches. Any tips would be appreciated.

Hey Don,
This is Rhonda again (rstone). Just FYI. we are located in eastern NC and probably have about the same weather as you. I appreciate all your great info.

Hi Rhonda: for what it is worth, if it isn't on the label it isn't a legal use, I.E. if peach isn't on the label it can't be used on peach trees. It is a strange situation the EPA has created because there are permethrin sources that are labeled for peach. Mine is something like 12% which is unususlly high for garden center stuff and the reason I snagged it when I came across it. The label states peach and a rate to go with it. My advice is to, at least in the future, always read the entire label before you but any spray materials or you may end up with something you can't or won't use and have a tough time finding a place to properly dispose of it. I've been down that road once with a fungicide and won't do it again.

Michael

Lovely.........have I ruined my trees or the fruit??? or is this just a government thing. Of coarse I purchased on line and when I googled "permethrin-fruit trees" came upon the website.

I planted a Peach tree 2/3 yrs Ago. There is a problem with my Peach Tree when it grow Peaches and they start turn red its look something eat the peaches and it catches sum kind of Jelly. After it catches the Jelly they started felling down from the Tree. Plz i need ur help with that thats stop catching the Jelly and felling down.

Thanks

I did it again. I did not follow your instructions, Jellyman and I wait too late and lost all my peaches, again the clear goo and rotted peaches.
So when am I supposed to start spraying with permethrin? As soon the tree flowers, as soon as I see fruit, in May, how often,
Any brand names.
On the radio the guy suggested, Lime Sulfur in march and april and then a spray of a fruit tree spray something like sporacide or organocide every two weeks.
Next year I wil do the spraying early. By the time I got to spraying the peaches were already gone, mid to late June.
thanks
Len

len1: don't feel too bad about your loss, you are not alone. I learned about Green Fruit Rot (a fungus) the hard way this year and lost about 3/4 of the fruit.

My OFM prevention program is to spray at petal fall (never during bloom, kills the bees) with permethrin and then about 7 - 10 days later with Malathion. Several days later I put footies on the fruits individually and have had no problems since. This strategy has worked for 2 years now. One caveat, while I have never seen any OFM damage on shoots or fruits, it is possible that there have been no OFM to damage my tree. If that is the case, I am in a rare location and am fortunate.

If you do a search here for "footies" you'll find many posts on the subject. Briefly, they are the nylon hosiery that are meant to be worn on your foot and are large enough only for a persons foot. You put one over a small fruit and tie the open end around the stem that the peach is attached to. In time the peach will grow to fill the footie. Apparently, the OFMs egg laying is hindered in some physical way by the footie. Some on this forum have not had success with footies while others like myself have.

About diluting high concentrations: it is much easier done in two or three steps.

For example, you might take three tablespoons of a concentrated liquid and mix it with one cup plus three tablespoons of water making a total of 10 ounces that is 1/10 the original concentration. Your 36% liquid has then been diluted to 3.6%. Now instead of needing to measure about 1/15 of the 1 1/2 to 2 ounces you need to measure 1/1.5, (which is 2/3) of 1 1/2 to 2 ounces. 2/3 of 1 1/2 ounce is, of course, 1 ounce, or three tablespoons. And 2/3 of 2 ounces is 4 tablespoons.

It's easier to do in the metric system. One might mix 36 grams of anhydrous material, for example, with water to make 100 ml. That would be a 36% solution. Every ml of the solution would hold 36/100 grams of the dry chemical, or .36 grams. 10 ml would carry 3.6 grams, 7 ml would carry 7 x .36 = 2.52 grams. So 7 ml of your 36% made up to 100 ml makes (very close to) a 2.5% solution.

A pharmacist can probably provide a needle-less hypodermic syringe which would make this easy. You need to allow for water to rinse clinging chemical into the mix- a surprising amount can stay in the barrel of a graduate or syringe.

From past experience handling strong chemicals I would suggest being very careful. Excellent ventilation, protection against spills, particular care around mucous membranes, no kids or pets, cleanup kit (with hot soapy water and rinse water) at hand, gloves and eye protection, all needed items at hand before opening containers, necessary containers open and ready -get all the ducks in a row before starting. Don't use the kitchen, that kind of common sensical thing. Might even have the label handy in case you actually did end up having to call Poison Control on your way to the emergency room.

Just thoughts for what it's worth.

Good luck,

Mark

Len,

I feel for you. You are trying hard and still not having results. I would recommend Don's advice, early in this thread. Start spraying your peaches early with permethrin, after all the petals fall off flowers. If there is lots of rain, spray your peaches once a week. One inch of rain will generally wash off your insecticide, leaving your peaches vulnerable. If it doesn't rain, you can extend your schedule to 10 days. If you can't get the insects to leave your peaches alone under this regimen, I'd be surprised. Later in the season, you may be able to back off on the sprays.

Harvestman -
You only apply 2 imidan sprays all season?!?!? Do you use footies or any other protection? Or do 2 sprays do the job?

Don and Scott -
What do you think about that for our area?

I'd love to spray less than I do now, but I'd hate to spray less and have zero peaches!

Thanks!
Bart

Bart,

You've hit on a key principle that Hman has reiterated ad infinitum, that is, pest control is very geographical specific. In the desert of CA, two sprays of imidan would probably seem overkill. Here where I am, two sprays would be a joke, and would hardly get you out the gate. It largely depends on temps, rain, and, among other things, how many unsprayed trees are in the locale. Don't assume because Hman can get by with two sprays of Imidan, all areas of the U.S could do the same. I don't think Hman would assume such. Then again, he's a contrarian and generally surprises me.

No wait, I may be a contrarian but it's important that I subdue that trait when considering my own stated positions. People might find me inconsistant if I routinely pointed out the idiocy of my own statements. I guess I could get a second identity and do it- that would actually be fun.

Anyway, of course pest issues vary from region to region and even county to county or neighborhood to neighborhood.

There is no plum curculio west of the Missisippi- that's why God gave you gophers. South of Maryland you get an extra generation of PC and killer OFM.

One thing I will say, you need to take a chance to find out what is the minimum spray you can get away with. Monitoring can help reduce the risk, I guess, but sometimes you just need to risk some fruit. If you don't take chances you don't learn nothing.

Harvestman -
Where are you? Long Island?

I'm in Putnam County NY- most of my business is slightly south of me in Westchester and CT where the millionaires tend to congregate.

Hi All
I am posting again, a year later. I posted a year ago stating that I had a peach tree that gets some peaches but always rot with an oozie goo coming out of them and also shrivel and brown spots.
So its not March, what should I do. Is it too late or should I use a dormant oil spray with copper sulfate? Is that good now for peaches
and when do I spray the permethrin that Jellyman suggested last year, when the flowers drop, how often, any suggested brand or how much pesticide to a sprayer. I hope this year I can finally get some peaches since I have never got one edible peach. Thanks all

One thing this thread has convinced me of is to forget about growing peaches. Nothing personal but if I want pesticide laden peaches, I will just go to waldbaums

Len,

Copper is for leaf curl. If you've not seen any strangely curled leaves (they're obvious) in the past you may be fine without a dormant spray of copper. However, you still have time to do a dormant spray, if you get it on soon.

Oil isn't going to do anything for your pectin bleeding peaches, but you can add some as a sticker for your copper (see label for rate).

OFM has been your big problem. It sounds like you haven't purchased any insecticide yet. Your best choice is either permethrin, or Triazicide Once and Done (liquid formulation). They are both equally effective, however Triazicide is sold at most big box stores, and so can be a little easier for a homeowner to acquire. Permethrin is more likely found at a coop(farm store). However, either one can probably be purchased on-line. Permethrin is just called permethrin, but make sure it's a formulation labeled for fruit trees (I bought some permethrin for termites once, and it was 50% active ingredient which is not what you'd use for your tree.) Read the label, it will tell you exactly how to mix it. Spray your insecticide when all the petals fall off your tree. Then spray again 10 to 14 days later (Spray at 10 days if there has been a lot of rain since your first spray. Spray 14 days later if there hasn't been much rain.)

What you do after that depends on how much risk you want to take with your crop. Hman (an experienced orchardist) lives close to you and gets by with just the two sprays. Scott Smith (another regular on this forum) lives in MD a little farther from you and has to control OFM all season long (He does this by bagging his fruit.) In my locale, OFM is very intense, and I spray all season long. So your pest control depends on the level of your pest pressure. If you've never gotten any fruit, I suspect your pest pressure is pretty intense, and will require an extended spray program.

Olpea
thanks so much
I will either get the permethrin or Traizicide soon and spray as soon as petal fall and then every 14 days. much thanks. I will let you know if I get peaches this year.

Also... Please give your local Extension agent a call...

Here in SC -- The Extension guys have a whole series articles from the University recommending specific spray programs for local pest and fungus problems.... some are even tailored by county/region of the state.

You haven't hit Petal Fall yet -- so now is the time to get prepared.

Thanks

John

Another question.
I got the Triazicide at home depot and I am ready to go. However everyone is afraid to eat the peaches. How toxic is this insecticide. It says it last for months. It also says its safe to eat after 14 days. Where can I get more information on how toxic it is. I know I am very far from organic but I would like to know more about Triazicides safety. I am going to use it because otherwise I will have no peaches. and I am going to use it on my flowers because the beetles defoliate my lilies.
thanks so much
Len

1st... Hman (Alan) has harped on this over and over and over... Organic DOES NOT mean non-toxic... It means not synthetic.... Both Cyanide and Ricin are natural things.. Cyanide is naturally in wild bitter Almonds, and Ricin is naturally in Castor beans... No one will argue these aren't massively poisonous...

Many folks do it because of trying to reduce impact to the surrounding environment...

For example -- I live on a steep hill and have a large creek in my back yard. I can't use several pesticides and Fungicides (Especially Systemics) because of this.. Too much danger from runoff... (Stated *CLEARLY* on the labels.... Read those labels!!!!) This means I gotta find other alternatives.

Those pesticides for "Home Use" are *HEAVILY* tested for toxicity... When they publish that data on the label -- you can be pretty sure it is safe if you follow it. (Imagine their legal liability if people got sick following the *Label* directions...)

Next - You can look up local "Harvest" dates for your specific fruit variety.. and then work backwards to your last spray.

Last, its always a good idea to wash your fruit before eating... Organic or not.

Thanks

John

Has anyone tried using an oriental fruit moth trap? If so, which one(s) and what where the results? Seems like it would be worth a try if you're not inclined to spray -- could be worth a shot even if it cuts down on the population a little bit.

Reading this again I find it somewhat frustrating. Don gives pest control advice that is great in his region but not so much in the northeast. Pest control is regional goddammit!

I believe I have by far the most experience with pest control in the northeast on this forum and after 20 years of fighting pests in many (maybe 100) orchards here (not just one) and working about 340 days a year to get folks harvests I pretty much know what the minimum spray regimen is to reliably get fruit here.

Guess what- up here some folks get peaches with zero sprays! No wonder I succeed most years with only 2 applications of Imidan. If any of the 100 orchards I manage got wormy fruit I would hear about it pronto.

Peaches will often require a funigicide here, particularly when they ripen later than July, but if you can find the residential version of Orbit you'll probably only need 2 sprays, one about July 15 and the next 2 weeks later.

The thing I dread about climate change is ending up with Don's weather and pests. When we become Zone 7, I'm retiring to Canada.

Pest control is more than regional, it's local. Len is clearly having problems with OFM. Clearly she can't grow peaches on a no-spray regimen.

Even near my own locale some lady from NE KS posted here claiming apple crews have picked her 72 apple trees without any spray whatever. Further south where I am, I know that would be a joke. The apples on the trees around here are pig feed. If I get time this summer I may take a few pictures to illustrate.

Len, Triazicide is a pyrethroid, a common class of pesticide. In terms of human health, these are pretty tame pesticides. Ignore the advertising that it lasts for months. That's just what it appears to be, advertising. I can guarantee it won't kill insects after months, which is the target. I would even go so far to say it probably wouldn't even be detectable on the fruit (at any residue) after months in your climate.

Ultimately, it's your decision, but if you are worried, peal your peaches, which is what I do (not for fear of pesticides, but because I hate the skin). And remember, any fruit or produce you buy in the store may have been sprayed by pesticides more severe than Triazicide.

I'm not so sure that every peach with a hole in it that oozes nectar is automatically caused by OFM (or any one thing). It could be caused by any number of sucking insects, such as stink bugs. I would do a little investigation and try to catch the little buggers in the act before beginning an insecticide regimen.

This time I'm with Clint and am surprised, Olpea, by the certainty of your diagnosis. Usually you are the model of analytical discretion and restraint. The man has not identified any OFM larva and hasn't even spoken of flagging of young shoots, which I consider an essential part of an OFM presence, (I get a lot of it without subsequent fruit damage).

Why would someone north of me have more trouble with OFM than me? Problems like this usually increase southward.

By the way the orchards I manage actually run through a pretty good range of weather conditions- from coastal CT to well upstate NY- probably from abou Z 5A to 7B. I'm not suggesting that OFM damage is impossible by any means but the certainty of the diagnosis of Olpea and Don just doesn't seem credible to me.

Well, perhaps I shouldn't have sounded so certain. But the description sounds like OFM. The peaches had spots oozing goo in mid to late June.

It sounds a little late to me to be curculio. That is, IMHO of course :-)

That is not at all late for curculio. I've had worms in my plums well into July that I have ID'd as PC. You spray the adults into June just as they are laying eggs. Don't see OFM damage here before July.

Where he is it is just as likely to be tarnished plant bug damage or stink bugs IMO. I get plenty of catfacing here once the Imidan wears off- usually near hedgerows or weedy areas.

I really appreciate all your thoughtful answers. My tree for the first time is fairly covered with blossoms. I am definitely going ahead with the Triazicide after petal fall, and I will let you know the results mid summer.
They do get covered with a jelly oozing out of them and then the rot and shrivel and it happens to all of them.
thank you all.
maybe this year peaches.
Len

Outstanding thread...thanks for everyone's input.

Not just to make a long thread longer, but no one has mentioned bacterial leaf spot. I've been reading about peach diseases, after seeing reddish-brown spots on leaves on several trees this morning. Not sure that's what I have, the worst is on a Hale Haven, and the leaves are smallish compared to the other trees. I fertilized it last week (thinking nitrogen deficiency), sprayed cover fungicide today. But if this is bacterial I'll need to go shopping for another product.

All my peaches are loaded, have been thinned. Daconil dormant and before petal drop, malathion after fruit set. Also, it's been a dry Spring. Only two half-inch rains this month until last night (got 1 1/4").

Any thoughts or advice about leaf spots?

Bottom and top of leaf.

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Most pictures of xanthamonas pruni infection that I've seen look different than what I have. The picture in the article below is why I think it might be BLS. Hopefully, it's just a nitrogen deficiency or something else that can be corrected.

Anyone ever use oxytetracycline?

Here is a link that might be useful: Bacterial leaf spot

What Happened, help
I sprayed my peach tree this year so far 3 times after petal fall with Triazicide as instructed. and today I saw very small peaches OOZIng again that awful goo. Why did this happen again, I t hought the spray was going tokill the moth larvae. Is it too late. Should I spray weekly?

Len,

It's time to do some more specific diagnosis. There has been a lot speculation on this thread as to what's causing your goo. The speculation comes for lots of experience, but it's speculation, nonetheless. With an accurate diagnosis, one has a much better shot at determining why your spray program is failing.

Take some of these oozing peaches and cut some of them open. Don't just cut them in half, but cut them in slices looking for larva tracks. Try to cut some slices right where you see the oozing, because this could be where a larva penetrated the fruit, and would be the section of the peach easiest to find tracks.

When you see larva tracks, they are easy to recognize because the trails will be different in color (kind of brownish). You may be able to find a larva, but the tracks alone will help confirm an internal larva problem, as opposed to some other things that can cause oozing.

If you do find a larva, note whether or not it has any legs, or is legless.

Lastly, would it be possible for you to post pictures?

thanks, I will see what I can do on Sunday when I where the tree is. and I will get a picture

I have uploaded 9 photos of my peaches to facebook andmake it open to everyone. I hope you view my pictures. You can see the inside of the peache and the goo, and something living inside. I have spray with triazicide about 5 times. thanks much for your help

Here is a link that might be useful: Peach Disease, on Facebook

Len, thats odd. I don't understand the photos because I see no seed. It would help me to see a couple dozen peaches cut up because its hard to tell from just a few. I would say its not moths because the very deformed shape means the damage happened early in its life. If you had looked at the peaches several weeks ago they also would have been deformed. It looks something like sting bug damage. Maybe a curculio could do that, but usually the fruit abort by now if they have curculio damage. So I would guess stink bug or some other sucking insect based on what I see. I get some stink bug damage and its similar but not so severe.

Anyway stink bug is my best guess now. I'm not sure why the triazicide didn't take care of them though.

Scott

No seed? Sounds like a lot of my peaches that were damaged by hard freeze early May. I don't do Facebook, wish you could post here. I have the experience in a climate fairly close to yours.

Here is a link to a photo on this site. I don't remember a hard frost in May but it may have happened.

Here is a link that might be useful: Peach Disease

Len,

I'm sorry you're still getting conflicting advice. Both Scott and Harvestman are both very competent growers.

I think the lack of consensus is a testimony to the difficulty of your problem.

However, my view is that your peaches are suffering from plum curculio, which is what Hman said in the first place.

I know I said earlier, I thought it was oriental fruit moth, but after viewing your pictures, the extreme deformity and what looks like tunneling, I think the problem with these peaches is PC. That's not to say you won't also have OFM (since they are both common pests to stone fruits) but the pictures you posted look to me like PC.

I think the problem with your spray program is the intervals are too long. As a homeowner, a pyrethroid like Triazicide is still a good choice, but it is not foolproof. This season, I sprayed a strong pryrethroid (Mustang Max) at 7 day intervals and still got significant PC damage on plums.

Earlier in this thread, I recommended spraying at 7-10 day intervals, or at 10-14 day intervals. It's difficult to know how much pest pressure you have from a forum thread (and this has been a long thread) but it's apparent now, your pest pressure is pretty extreme. I would spray on a 7 day interval for a month an a half, starting at petal fall.

Make sure your spray is good (i.e. don't store a mixed spray solution to be used later) and make sure your coverage is good (The fuzz on peaches tends to repel the spray, so make sure with your hand sprayer, the spray penetrates the fuzz to wet the skin.)

I'm sorry this has happened again. Is there any fruit on the tree that is clean?

Len, I should say I would not be surprised if it was curculio. The thing that looks like a track I had thought was a deformity. In re-reading what you wrote I see you mention you saw something living, I can't see that in the picture but if its a white worm then the curculio is the likely attacker (it could also be a later fruit moth who found an easy entry point on the deformed peach). My curculio don't deform peaches anything like that, but you could have a different kind of curc or different climate effects.

Scott

I know I had PC pretty bad on apples this year and needed to spray on a 7 day interval with Triazicide. I waited untill day 8 or 9 on one interval and PC was back on them. I did 4 sprays and so far I havent noticed anything else going on with them.

I have orchards here that received no spray without any pc in peaches. In the northeast pc tends to leave peaches alone in many sites where the apples are decimated. This season there will be lots of sound fruit on unsprayed peach trees in the area, I'm pretty sure.

The peaches do look a lot like my frozen ones.

I sprayed about 100 orchards around here with only 2 insecticide sprays at 12 to 14 day intervals. At a couple sites there's some harmless scars but most have 90 percent clean fruit- peaches plums apples apricots pears cherries etc. I used mostly Imidan.

Hello I have a peach tree that I have been growing for about 5 years now, it use to have good fruit on it, last year it didn't bare fruit, this year the peaches came back but most look deformed, but some of them look nice, what I want to know is can you eat the deformed peaches?