Hi Peggy,

I was happy to see your report. I set out Ison's muscadine about 6/7 years ago in my back yard here in Washington, DC (also from EL). It's performed very well for me with disease-free, large, tasty crops and no winter die back. When eating fresh I eat the skins and spit out the seeds. I use the bulk of it to make juice.

I've see a few others on this forum give disparaging reports as to its quality and flavor. I thought these bad reports were due to either people who were not accustomed to the muscadine thick skin, or to comparisons with newer varieties that I had not yet tasted myself. I grew up on my grandmother's vines which were older than the Ison variety, so perhaps that's why I find Ison's quality to be quite satisfactory. I personally wouldn't want the muscadine qualities bred out of it.

Peggy, when did they ripen? and when is typically your last frost. I am in about the same zone as you but in the mountains so I wonder if my growing season is shorter. I am originally from NC too and love scuppernongs

Robert

I've been intrigued reading about the Southern type of grapes -- scuppernongs and such. I know they are a seperate species, and don't grown north of Zone 7 or perhaps the southern parts of Zone 6. And, I believe that the fruits are quite large, and in clusters of only a few grapes. How do they compare, in taste, texture, size, and cultivation, with both European type table grapes (Vitis vinifera cultivars), and with northern, "fox" grapes like Concord and Niagra, which are V. lambrusca (or something like that) cultivars. How are these grapes used -- fresh eating, juice, jelly?

denninmi,
Muscadines have much thicker skins (or hulls as we say in the south) than bunch grapes that some people don't enjoy. They're slipskin, so it's quite easy to break the skin, eat the pulp and spit out the skin and seeds. Personally I like the skin as it has a lot of the flavor and nutrition. Muscadines are a south-east native, so they've developed defenses against bacteria + fungi that love humid and warm climates (I've never needed to spray my vine). One of these defense mechanisms is resveratrol. Bunch grapes have this too, but at much lower levels. Muscadines are used fresh, juice, jelly and sweet wine -- though the pigments in dark muscadines aren't as stable as bunch grapes and will oxidize to a muddy looking color making a less attractive wine.

I would say that a muscadine tastes like a labrusca (Concord, Niagara, etc.), but much smoother, with a dash of apple thrown in. Most of the more modern cultivars are also very sweet.

Gene,
I grew up on muscadines as well. We didn't plant them, they were all wild. Yes, some folks aren't accustomed to a grape with a hull. And then there are the seeds. Like you, I don't mind spitting them out because I love the sweet, sweet taste of the inner fruit. The hull used to make my mouth itch when I was a kid. My 3 yo g'daughter eats the hull and spits out the grape. Go figure.

As has been noted on another thread here, the grapes are at their peak when they lose their gloss. Sometimes it's hard to tell but you soon learn to spot the sweeter ones....and they are O' so good! I've read that they're loaded with anti-oxidants....makes sense. They aren't as bothered by J beetles either...I didn't say that, ok?

Robert, I didn't keep a record of when they started to ripen but it was around mid-Sept. There should still be a few hanging on the vine...I just got home from NC and I'm anxious to check tomorrow. Our 1st frost is anywhere from Oct 15-Oct 30...so far so good. I realize that in some yrs I'm gonna lose some.

I don't know that I'd like them as a wine. I like dry reds. I really enjoyed the fresh grapes and I love them for fresh eating. I would think they'd taste good frozen as well...yum!

Enjoy your muscadines!

I really wished I lived somewhere with a milder climate -- it would be fun to try some of these different things. One of the regional chain stores here in the Midwest was selling packaged grapevines in the spring -- the usual concord and niagra, but they also had 'Thompson Seedless' which obviously DOES NOT GROW in Michigan. I bought one anyway, just to try -- it was only $1.99 -- it has actually lived about 10 years now, but is a stunted dwarf -- it only gets about a foot tall each year, with tiny little leaves, and has never bloomed -- it is sort of a natural bonsai. If I ever move to California or Oregon, I'll take the poor thing with me.

denninmi....

I wish I had seen this thread last fall when it was new. I picked up muscadines a little over a year ago (fruit not plants) at a fruit market on Woodward in Royal Oak. The fruit were bronze (scuppernongs I guess).

I'm actually half tempted to try growing Muscadines, though I don't know where in my yard I could plant them. Maybe I'll come up with a spot after I plant all the other stuff I ordered for this spring that I don't know where I'm going to plant....

~Chills

ok, 45 minutes of research on Muscadines and I'm ready to ask for some practical experience.

Most sources give Muscadine hardiness as zone 7 and above, though these same sources claim certain varieties are more hardy than others. (Nesbitt seems to be one of these hardier varieties) PFAF claims Vitis Roundifolia (isn't that what Muscadines are??) is hardy to zone 5.

Is this a case of the plants will survive zone 5, but chances of ever seeing fruit are slim to nil unless you are in zone 7 or above (or capable of making the plant think its in zone 7 or above...microclimates, etc)?

Is the problem the cold, or the cold-wet or is anyone in zone 6 successfully fruiting Muscadines?

~Chills

I'm in the middle of muscadine territory, maybe 80 miles from where many of the early selections were found in the wild or from seeds from the nearby wild. I've tasted lots of named selections and wild grapes. And I grow Isons and many others, though most have not yet started to bear appreciably yet (maybe this year). Isons is good but simply not the best in every catagory: size, sweetness, aroma (my favorite part about muscadines), cold hardiness. But most great muscadines aren't the very best either, how could they be? Probably it is simply pretty good in all the categories.

BTW: people in colder areas can grow muscadines the same way as they can figs, by leaning them over in the early winter and burying them until late winter.

Chills, one big issue is whether your season is long & warm enough to ripen the fruit. Part of my Ison's vine runs along the side of a brick wall w/southern exposure. The fruit along that section will plump up and ripen sooner the rest. Maybe something like that would help you.

I'm coming to this conversation a few years late. The story of my life, LOL! Anyway, I live in the heart of Muscadine country, SE Georgia and have twelve vines in all. Three of them, Ison, Supreme, and Pam are beginning their third year of production. (They have bloom buds and will be blooming soon that is.) Two other varieties and a second Ison, will enter their first year of production this year. (Yes, I liked Ison enough to get a second vine.)

The reputation of the Ison muscadine is that it's not very cold tolerant in comparison to some others. However it is one of the earliest black varieties to bare fruit, so if you succeed at taking measures to protect it in a colder climate, you have a better chance of actually getting fruits with Ison than you would with say Late Fry which has better cold tolerance but needs a much longer growing season to ripen fruit.

If you like the white muscadines, maybe you should try a brand new one that has just come out called Hall. I don't have this one, but Hall is supposed to be very cold hardy and an early season variety. It's also self fertile like Ison, so you only need one vine. Lane is another new early season self fertile variety that has just come out.

The subject of Lane raises another consideration when picking a muscadine, and that's skin qualities. One of the big improvements in muscadines is the skin. The skin of Ison is not as tough or bitter as some of the older varieties. But the skin of the still newer table varieties such as Supreme, Black Beauty, Late Fry, Lane and a few others is crunchy and sweet. So the lady who mentioned her daughter eating the skins, well, if its from one of the newer varieties such as Supreme, I don't blame her.

Ison is a great muscadine bred expressly to have a lot of the flavor characteristics of wild muscadines. It's really meant for making jam and yes some wines where you have an especially strong "musky" muscadine flavor. As a result, some folks will tend to prefer the flavor of some of the table varieties that aren't so musky.

Most of my vines are on trellises for fruit production. I planted my second Ison to go on a swing arbor. I was impressed with the way Ison has a long lasting two tone red green color phase on it's ripening grapes which I find very attractive. I planted the second vine on the swing arbor for aesthetic reasons on account of that characteristic.

Last comment, someone mentioned the red pigment of black muscadines being unstable. Yes, that's true, but the variety Nobel, has the most stable pigmentation and therefor most commercial red muscadine wines will have at least some Nobel grapes in them. If the wine maker is going for a strong musk flavor, they will do about a 70% Ison and 30% Nobel mix. God bless.

Marcus

I've got two isons, two sweet Jenny's and two ruby crisps. Everything else i have one each.