As I recall from regular correspondence with 3 others living and gardening in Ireland blood meal is available as well as cattle and sheep manures and both will work as a substitute.

You could use urea as a source of nitrogen, if that is available.

I'm not sure what a hay bale garden is, but organic fertilizers are made from ground up protein sources. Among them are animal parts and ground grains, seeds, nuts, and beans. I like corn meal, alfalfa, soybean meal, and even used coffee grounds. The animal base materials, fish meal, blood meal and feather meal, are difficult to get the dose right, so I stay away from them.

A starting rate for ground grains is 0.5-1.0 kilograms per 10 square meters. You can go up or down from there. For individual plants I scatter a heaping handful under each one on a monthly basis.

I did hay bale gardening last year.

As an alternative to ammonium nitrate I used urea.

Urea would not be an acceptable organic Nitrogen source.

urine would be a good starting point possibly with a small ammount of chicken manure and for trace elements maybe add some seaweed extract i use SM3.
have you thought about growing spuds under a mulch? it is a great ground clearing methodand you dont have to dig them up you just gently pull the mulch back pick as many as you want and leave to plant growing
good luck
steve

You can crack some chicken eggs mixed into some soil stuck into the bales....about 3 per 8" hole.

Actually, urea is an organic substance.

The only reason it may be rejected by organic gardeners is because it is produced synthetically.

As for whether it is allowed or not, it is indeed allowed in small quantities. The hay bale gardening application calls for small amounts.

Aldan, you mention that you are going to be moving soon. How do you plan to contain the hay bales so that they can be relocated when you change homes? Once you start the process of wetting etc the bales are going to become rather heavy and a bit unmanageable (especially if the strings break.)

Your time window, from your description, sounds rather short. Perhaps you would be better off starting some seed trays which would be ready to transplant when you get to your new home and garden.

I dont plan to do the haybales until I move. That is ine reason I want to give it a go. As it will be so late in the season I will be limited in what I can grow. So I thought I would give it ago this year and then where ever the bales are will be grand for planting nxt year with all the materials.
Thanks for all the help.
Julie

Actually, urea is an organic substance.

Only the urea found as a compound in mammalian urine is an organic substance.

The only reason it may be rejected by organic gardeners is because it is produced synthetically.

BINGO! You can't have it both ways. Organic urea is just one of the compounds found in urine. Only mammals produce urine. Synthetic urea is produced from natural gas. Organic materials are created by animals, plants, insects, or microbes in nature. Synthetic materials, even if they simulate the chemical structure of an organic material, are created artificially. Those are sort of basic definitions.

I might add that not all organic materials are good for you and your yard. Cobra venom, hemlock sap, and castor bean tea come to mind right away. Similarly not all synthetic materials are necessarily bad for the garden. Urea, if used in small quantities or diluted heavily, might be an okay material if you're not squeamish about using natural gas products. But this is an organic forum so I'm definitely not promoting it. Personally I would never use it. There's no need with all the other sources of organic materials.

An organic substitute for ammonium nitrate is Chilean nitrate. It has a high salt content but if you are in a rainy area it should be fine for supplying part of your nitorgen needs. Tom

Growing legumes in rotation is the long-term answer. I mention this because one of the reasons that conventional produce has lower mineral content than organic produce is excess nitrogen. Have a look at Diana Worthington's excellent study. Regards, Peter.

>Only the urea found as a compound in mammalian urine is an organic substance.

Sorry, but this just is not true when it comes to urea. Urea is the only synthetic fertilizer that contains carbon. Therefore, it may be created artificially but the compound is considered an organic compound.

From wikipedia:

'Urea or carbamide is an organic compound with the chemical formula (NH2)2CO.'

The chemically created urea is identical to naturally created urea. Urea used in large amounts (50-0-0) is very effective at providing nitrogen in the short term but easily damages the soil. A much more diluted application, around 3-0-0, helps feed the soil organisms which in turn produce abundant nitrogen for the plant. This is feeding the soil approach vs. feeding the plants. Let the soil do the work, that's how nature designed it. That's why we pee on trees. We are providing small amounts of urea for the soil organisms living on the roots. They only need a little bit to be effective (kind of like eating a small tenderloin vs. a 2lb roast).

The whole organic approach is missing something. Sure, decaying animal and fecal matter may come directly from nature, but does that mean they are that fun to use? I personally find fish emulsion and bat guano disgusting and never want to use them again. Blood and bone meal? Yuck.

There is a liquid fertilizer out there that provides complete plant nutrition in an all-natural formulation. It is non-toxic, non-burning, builds the soil with each application and is safe enough to use around pets and children. It was the first product to receive the EPA's "BioPreferred" designation. You can even take a sip of it. It tastes earthy and clean. It uses a small amount of urea and is currently not certified 'organic' because of this. However, I am fully convinced it is a much healthier approach than putting feces or smelly, fermented animal products on my plants. The "I only use chicken poo and fish goo so it's organic" is misleading.

I wonder why no one answered "gelatin?"

You would need to use warm to hot water to dissolve it.

Urea is illegal here, same as ammonium nitrate, for its potential use in explosives.

(I wasn't searching old posts on this board; I came upon this in a google search on soluble organic nitrogen sources. I was wondering if organic gardeners use the N-spray treatment on fallen leaves to avaoid next years fungus problems. This tactic usually uses urea.)

In chemistry, any compund containing carbon as an element is considered "organic" whatever its source, which is a totally different meaning from the way the word is used in organic farming, where everything must have a natural and not a petrochemical source. Tree leaves, green plants like grass and clover, coffee grounds, and urine are all good sources of nitrogen. Coffee grounds must either be diluted to not "burn" plants, or composted, where some of its nitrogen will be used up by the microbes. Urine can be diluted 1 to 10 parts water. If the urine is from a male mammal,even a man, it will have the added benefit f "marking" the territory, and will help keep rodents and deer away. If you are taking prescription or even some over-the-counter pharmaceuticals, I would hesitate to use your own urine on farming areas, since much of it can be toxic in the food supply.

Surprised no one has pointed out the inherent conflict in your garden design. You propose a nearly sterile substrate, dense hay, then suggest an organic nitrogen source. What microbes will process your urea or blood meal into useable N? They aren't in the hay.

IME, sterile growing systems respond better to chemical ferts and healthy soils respond better to organic amendments. The noted exception to that is compost tea, where the microbes process the organic matter out-of-container into nutrients that can be readily uptaken by roots. This is what I'd suggest, but if you have no time to make compost tea, I think you've designed yourself into a tough situation with your parameters.

Perhaps some people need to spend some time with this primer.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Soil Food Web Primer