Call the Garrett juice information number (which should be on the label) and ask them about this.

Why use such a toxic poison on aphids when much less toxic methods do a good job of control? If Garrett Juice is a "plant food" why would you want to add a toxic poison to it?

lepages, when and if you DO call the company, let us know what they said. It would be helpful to others who might be needing to practice some intelligent pest management.

The Garrett juice hasn't arrived yet (I ordered through the mail) but when it does I will call them. I did read on another board that someone did this and they said it worked very well.

I'm new to organic gardening last year I would have just bought something and spayed it already. I was a little concerned though with the comment from kimmsr, is Neem really toxic poison?

No. Of course, you need to read and follow the directions...just like anything else. Neem probably has less effect on beneficials than Kimmsr's favorite soap home remedy.

The good thing about the Neem is that it has a residual quality and can be effective against chewing and sucking insects for some time. And there's the disease control aspect, too.

So it's effective against chewing and sucking insects for some time, but it's not a poison?

lepages, I also want to say -- and I really, really don't mean to be condescending, or lecture, or do anything except try to help you in your terrific goal of becoming an organic gardener -- that organic gardening is not just a matter of using this organic spray instead of that not-organic spray. Perhaps you could post questions on this forum about what to do about aphids or powdery mildew on such and such a plant, and see how what people's answers are?

lepages, kimmsr is the only person who seems to have that opinion of neem and many of us here have used it.

here is some info on neem that you might find useful:

Wildlife: Azadirachtin is considered relatively non-toxic. Rat oral LD50 of azadirachtin is >5000 mg/kg. However, cold-water extract of fresh neem leaves caused mortality in guinea pigs and rabbits after 4 weeks of feeding trials. This extract produced reversible infertility in rats and mice after 6 weeks (Extoxnet).

Azadirachtin is not likely to accumulate or cause long-term effects (Miller and Uetz 1998). Fish toxicity is moderate and azadirachtin is not expected to kill fish under normal use.

Natural enemies: Azadirachtin has little or no negative effect on adult beneficials. It is reported to be relatively harmless to bees, spiders, ladybeetles, parasitoid wasps, and adult butterflies. The product labels advise not to apply it when honeybees are actively foraging (EPA). In a few trials, negative effects have been noted on immature stages of beneficial species exposed to neem (Qi et al. 2001, Banken and Stark 1997). However, neem products are generally thought to be suitable for inclusion into integrated pest management programs (Lowery and Isman 1994, Ruckin1992).

Other non-target organisms: Considered to be generally non-toxic. Neem leaves added to the soil increased earthworm weight and survival (Extoxnet). However, the effects of neem on many non-target organisms have not been studied, and it seems likely that some may be affected.

Effects on human health: Studies of azadirachtin mutagenicity and acute toxicity have shown that it likely does not pose a significant risk to human health. However, some people have exhibited skin and mucous membrane irritation from neem seed dust (Weinzierl and Henn 1991). Note that most studies have been done on azadirachtin, and may not show the effects of a whole neem product. Neem is used in some commercial human hygiene products.

Efficacy
Neem extracts have been shown to affect over 200 insect species including some species of whiteflies, thrips, leafminers, caterpillars, aphids, scales, beetles, true bugs and mealybugs (Thacker 2002, Copping 2001). Although neem products are labeled for many species, efficacy against them varies greatly.

Besides insects, other pests including mites (Miller and Uetz.1998, Smitley and Davis 2000) and snails (Mostafa and Abdel-Megeed 1996) have been reported susceptible to neem.
A summary of recent field neem efficacy trials on vegetables and fruit commonly grown in the Northeast was compiled for this fact sheet. These university-based trials typically test products with untreated buffer rows and other conditions that may create unusually severe pest pressure. The level of pest control is likely to be higher on completely treated fields in which good programs of cultural controls and other sound pest management tactics have been implemented.

Here is a link that might be useful: neem article

Consider, "USDA-NOP:
Considered a non-synthetic botanical pesticide; its use is regulated. Preventive, cultural, mechanical and physical methods must be first choice for pest control, and conditions for use of a biological material must be documented in the organic system plan (NOP 2000)."
If any product kills an insect it is toxic. A toxic product kills things. If Neem Oil is sprayed around your garden with no regard to what is being sprayed that Neem Oil will not stop and say "Oh! This is a beneficial insect so I won't kill this one." That is what the human is there for, to be sure the poison you use does not contact the beneficial insects. People have used various products from the Azadirachtin tree for centuries for many things, but I doubt that anyone has used the extract from the seeds to brush their teeth, and toxicity of a product depends on the does you are exposed to. Many of the common items we use every day in the appropriate dose would be toxic to us, if you drink too much water you will die from that.

If Neem Oil is sprayed around your garden with no regard to what is being sprayed that Neem Oil will not stop and say "Oh! This is a beneficial insect so I won't kill this one.

Actually it does. It isn't a contact poison like pyrethrins or rotenone, it has to be ingested in order for it to be toxic to insects. As it is an oil it can also be toxic to soft bodied insects the same way other horticultural oils are if they are sprayed directly, but after the initial application it is only toxic to insects that suck/chew on the plant.

By definition that makes the insect a 'pest' as the good bugs don't eat our plants ;-)

While I can agree with avoiding any/all pesticides to the extent possible, when it comes time to try a pesticide it seems to me to make sense to start with those that have low toxicity to the overall environment as well as those that are more targeted against pests instead of broad spectrum killers.

Neem fits both categories.

I think neem is way overrated as a pesticide. It's really only appropriate for insects that go through several instars as they grow, and not for aphids, which are much more easily controlled with soap, if you gotta control them at all. Mostly they're food for beneficials.

Good luck with your garden, LP, and don't sweat the small stuff.

I think neem is way overrated as a pesticide.

Neat opinion, got anything more definitive to add?

planatus, you aren't considering the anti-feedant or the 'smothering' qualities of neem. As well as the anti-fungal effects. But, I agree that aphids are easily controlled with water sprays, if used regularly.

Heck, sprays of water can even help deter powdery mildew from taking over.