note to self: Don't move to maine!! Freaks! (gov't that is!)

This is outrageous. I'd sure be talking to my state reps about it and if nothing could be done, I'd move the heck away from that state!
Lil

Sweet, fancy Moses! That's just crazy. I feel pretty bad for Ly!

I tried doing a search for anything related to illegal ownership of koi in Maine, but they must have it buried.

Everyone is so worried about their koi making it through cold winters, I'm surprised that they could survive and thrive if let loose up there! Let alone the fact that all of the people I've seen post here at GW freak out when they can't find them in their ponds. I can't imagine they'd let them loose in the wild because they got too big. More like sell or give them away to someone who can care for them.

Brenda

Gawd yes... to think wildlife officials in MAINE, of all places, would think koi could thrive in the wild there... GEESH!

Did they become a problem?

I'm guessing they didn't, rather some legislator with an agenda and lots of influence got this law passed, and once passed, state wildlife officers have to enforce it, so they make the best case for it... and what they said is true, assuming the koi can safely overwinter, but how many people are dumping these expensive fish into natural waterways??? I mean, once they get big, they're worth BIG DOLLARS!

But if you think THIS is ridiculous, the state of Tennessee just this summer outlawed SALVIA, i.e. sage... Yes, the ENTIRE GENUS...

I saw on the local news that a story was coming up about Tennessee outlawing a common, longtime, backyard flower. I figured it would be Brugmansia (angel trumpets), since some people smoke the leaves of that for a "high," supposedly (I haven't tried it, nor do I know anyone who has, so I can't really say)... However, when the story came on, it was Salvia... The state's reasoning was that people can smoke the leaves for a high, and some people are growing it and harvesting the leaves for that purpose...

Once again, legislators proved ignorance in the law easily trumps common sense. If one visits a website Erowid.com, which specializes in information about this sort of thing, it talks about this. There is ONE SPECIFIC SPECIES of Salvia called Salvia divinorum, from which the leaves can be dried and smoked, according to Erowid, but even THAT species has to be specially cultivated and processed, according to the website, to produce anything "worth" smoking.

It's likely somebody verging on hysteria with only limited information but LOTS of influence got the Tennessee legislature all riled up on the issue, and most legislators -- particularly STATE legislators -- being only slightly more educated than the average garbage collector -- they just outlawed the entire Genus.

So for the time being, nobody in Tennessee can grow or sell ANY of the Salvia species -- even the perennial bush types, like my beloved "Hot Lips," I guess.

Don't ya just LOVE politicians???
ARGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!

ok, what is wrong with this picture? the are illegal in maine, yet they take them to a pet store? to hold untilthey could be used as evidence? they are illegal yet he could buy them back?

first, sounds like harassment. second, he shouldn't have to buy back his own fish!

i suspect it has to do with the asian carp and being "related."

Well, the urban legend website does not discredit the AP story. I can't believe this. Either the fish are illegal or they are not. And even if they were declared illegal recently, you'd think owners of more than a decade and a half would be grandfathered in so they could keep their pets. And harassing a minority business owner, taking his fish and offering to sell them back to him... just doesn't ring. I'd love an update.

Here is a link that might be useful: snopes.com

On a side note, the only thing I could find about the Salvia issue in TN is that, as of July 1st, only S. divinorum is banned. I couldn't dig up anything that says ALL Salvias are banned.

I have to admit, after hanging out on the Salvia forum for a while, most people's experience in trying to grow S. divinorum is limited. In other words, it's not too difficult to get it to root and establish from cuttings, however, it becomes harder to manage and care as it gets bigger. It rarely flowers or sets seed, and it's not very pretty, anyway. :)

Brenda

"ok, what is wrong with this picture? the are illegal in maine, yet they take them to a pet store? to hold untilthey could be used as evidence? they are illegal yet he could buy them back?"

The pet store the fish were taken to is located in New Hampshire, where koi are not banned. Therefore the guy was able to buy them back. He's keeping them in Massachusetts, so he didn't bring them back to Maine. Still crazy though. Don't know how the store owners could justify making the guy pay for them. They probably got them for nothing...

oooh, thanks for the explanation, autumn! interesting, still...

I don't see how the New Hampshire store owner could justify charging this guy to get his fish back, either -- at least no more than the cost of feeding and keeping them for however long he had them until the guy got there to retrieve them. I'd have a little more ethics than that, and I'd certainly think most people in the pet trade should, since they're supposedly animals lovers if they're in that business.

As for the Asian carp issue, that TRULY IS a nightmare. I saw a story about it on Discovery HD recently, about how they're migrating up the Mississippi and its tributaries and the serious lengths they're going to by running electric current along the bottom of the canal that leads from the Illinois River to Lake Michigan to try to make sure they don't get into the Great Lakes.

An Illinois fisheries biologist was videotaped and interviewed as he drove his boat through the river with outriggers running small electric currents into the water to get the fish to jump out so he could net them, weigh them, estimate their numbers and so forth. Some of them were HUGE and he'd caught one female that had 7 pounds of eggs, alone, in her, yet all he could do was take his stats and put them back (I'd think they'd destroy the ones they caught).

He DID say that unlike the ugly orange carp people fish for in carp lakes around here, these are supposedly good eating fish, and they're trying to encourage people to fish them for food to try to reduce numbers, but that they're so prolific, there's little chance they'll ever be eliminated, as they've pretty much taken over the rivers.

I'd also note they looked NOTHING like koi, and I think the relationship is pretty distant (although I'm guessing if koi and goldfish can interbreed, koi and asian carp probably can, too). These fish were big and ugly, though.

Frankly, in the kind of numbers they exist in the Mississippi and its tributaries, if there's a chance that releasing koi into the wild in ANY stream or river could create such a nuisance, I'm surprised they're not illegal EVERYWHERE. We don't have any Mississippi tributaries here, or in the Northeast, like in Maine, but I think there are just a half dozen major river systems around the country, and if anything that prolific gets released into any of them, it will likely take over the entire system.

Just imagine swimming Kudzu, or for those of you unfamiliar with Kudzu, swiming, water hyacinth that doesn't die when it gets cold.

THAT'S what Asian carp are in American rivers! :(

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/viewpoints/editorials/060728koi.shtml

It's clearly a true story. That NH pet dealer had to find room for and feed 10 large koi. Very possibly he had to set up new digs for them, so I can see his charging Ly to get them back, as animal shelters charge owners to reclaim their stray pets. $700 seems a tad steep though.

I can believe Maine has made koi illegal. There's a big sign on the Maine Turnpike instructing those hauling boats to remove all plant material from their boats and trailers. I suspect koi could do well in Maine's natural waterways in spite of the cold. They suffer in the cold in small, artificial habitats, but in the wild the temperature and water chemistry shifts are much more gradual. Plus there's a steady supply of fresh, clean water. Besides, not all of Maine is frigid. Some of the coastal region is zone 6.

Lots of things are legal in NH that are not legal in surrounding states. I hope it stays that way.

BTW, if those koi were bringing the restauranteer so much luck, how could the troopers come in and confiscate them? I guess they only had power to keep the AC running.

:^)

Sharon

I know that if I had a dog (or 10) for 15 years, and they decided to pass a law stating my dogs were illegal, and they subsequently confiscated them, I would not only be sad but pretty p.o.'d, as well. Especially if I kept them indoors with no chance to be let loose into the wild.

It's pretty ridiculous when laws are used sweepingly and without regard for circumstances. IMO.

Brenda

Well actually, the released/escaped koi do thrive in Maine, and have taken over a few bodies of water. Most notable is Kirby Lake, Belfast Maine. It had to be dredged. Here's a link;

The Bangor Daily News article has a stunning image of a bird in flight with a goldfish from the lake, against a snowy background.