Questions? Did the "landscaper" put a bottom drain in the pond? Your pond is similar in size to ours (2000 gal.). What type of filtration system? UV light? How large of pump? What did he charge?

I will get some more specific info for you tomorrow. All I know thus far is that yes, we do have a bottom drain, some sort of biological filter behind the waterfall, a pump, and some sort of light to retard algae growth. I am a little put out because I specified up front that I wanted it 3' deep and we ended up with 23". I also told him that I wanted to put koi in it; now he's saying it won't work well for them. The price for the pond was $4K; this was a line item in the overall landscaping fee for our new home. He has a landscaping business (very reputable) here in Raleigh with his brother and installs lots of ponds. He is supposedly the "go to" person in the company for pond design.

You are right, 23" is too shallow for Koi in N.C. He made money on your project. For a "go to" guy, he didn't "go to", I'm guessing.

I am in SC and Sarassa comets and shubunkins are a good substitute for koi. The Sarassa comets are red and white with long flowing tails. The shubunkins are colorful with blue, gold and white colorations.

Word of mouth is a good way to find healthy fish. You can join your local water garden club. It is a great source of knowledge.

As far as plants, Water iris, pickerel, water celery, rush, water lilles and lotus all do well in your growing zone.

Do you have rocks on the bottom? He may have built the pond 3 feet deep with a bare liner but the rocks make the depth shallower.
If this is the case, you can remove the rocks on the bottom to get more depth out of the pond.

Anyone have any book recommendations?

Zoe:

You better understand exactly how the contractor set up the filtration and plumbing because sometime in the future, you are going to have to fix it, modify it, or add to it and you need to know what kind of maintenance your filter and pump require.

Wellcome to ponding.

Thanks, Kalevi. Right now, we are having discussions with the installer about going back and digging out the pond to the 3' depth that we had asked for. However, this will be complicated as the sides are masonry and the liner will have to be removed/reinstalled and I'm assuming we may then need a larger pump and filter system. This man is the person people in Raleigh go to for pond installations so I don't know why we've had the problems. We told his associates at least 3 times that we wanted a 3' deep pond and it's 23". When all this is resolved, I will post the pump and filter specifications. I do know that we have a UV light and a bottom drain and that the filtration system is located behind the stone waterfall.

I know I will get good advice on this forum. The kitchen, appliance, bathroom, and flooring forums have been invaluable as we've gone through the difficulties of building a new home. I have kept successful indoor aquariums in the past but I know that outdoor pondkeeping is quite different. Sometimes I wonder if we've done the right thing. We have a small yard and our pond is really going to be the focal point.

Anyway, until this is all settled, I was hoping that someone could perhaps steer me toward some good beginner pondkeeping books and/or websites with detailed information.

I'm in Michigan and have had a pond for 7yrs,and it's only 23"s deep. My local zoning states that any water features that are over 24"s deep have to be fenced in and I didn't want a fence. I started out with 7 koi which are our pets,and have 7 more that are offspring. As the offspring get bigger I give them away, keeping my number of inches of fish per gallons of water the same. You can look up calculators for that. As long as you have good filtration, I don't think having koi wouldn't be a problem. 23"s is a lot easeier to walk around in than 3ft, and for growing plant it will be easier since most plants won't tollerate that depth.
I would keep what you have and tell the landscaper to give you some money back, because if he has to tear it all up it's going to cost him a lot of money. [couple grand] Then put that money into getting some good fish and plants.

Patrick,
Isn't the 23" depth a problem for North Carolina? The water would become very warm in the summer months. I would guess it would be very marginal for koi. The winters shouldn't be a problem. But you are right, filtration will make or break this project.

Zoe,
What depth was agreed upon? Was 36" definitely agreed, or was it just casually mentioned? I have been on both sides of this type of situation. I have built three homes for our family, and also was a contractor of a different trade. I know how people can mention all kinds of stuff casually, and then remember only what they want in hindsight. Formal (written) agreements are absolute necessity in a project such as yours. It works for everyone's advantage. Miscommunication is terrible in house building. Everyone communicates differently and their memory is even worse.

It wasn't put in writing but my husband told them initially and mentioned it again 3 more times. This was a case of the hand not knowing what the other hand was doing (Les did the landscaping, Ben does the pond construction, and they weren't communicating well, apparently). They haven't denied that we made the request and were assured it would be that depth. My main concern with the depth is that we have herons nearby and while 3' won't make it heron-proof, it will make it a little harder for them to get my fish than 23". Even if I can't have koi, the 23" will make shubunkins or comets a very easy snack. We paid for a 3' pond.

Also, we will be happy to pay the extra cost of a bigger pump and filter if needed. We won't pay for the redo because they should have dug it out 3' - not our fault.

I think your pond is plenty big for koi, they will grow depending on pond size, filtering, and feeding. My koi didn't go dormant until feb. this year so the mild winters will help. Fish pockets are another option to help them out.

My pond is 24 inchest deep and I have a few koi and they're doing just fine. It's a few feet longer than yours and about as wide. It does get a little warm here, but we make sure the pond has plenty of surface cover to provide shade, and the fish do not seem to be uncomfortable. They swim as normal and come up for food. I do wish I had gone three feet, but I have what I have.

There are a lot of ponders in my area with two foot deep ponds who have had koi for years with no trouble. Three feet is better, no question about that, but two feet is not unacceptable in climates that are not extreme.

However, if you specified 3', I would insist that they honor that request. You certainly paid enough for them to do the job right. But if you're stuck with this one, yes, you can have some koi.

Perrys Water Gardens in Franklin NC and Bonnies Plants in Newton NC have plants and fish for sale. They do not ship their fish though. I have ordered Shubunkins and Comets from Springdale Water Gardens in Va. I have never lost a fish they sent to me and they include extras to make up for any that might not make it. Their shipping is the most reasonable of any I have seen for shipping fish. I would recommend all the above, The plants I had shipped from them were very nice plants. No complaints. Glenda

My pond is 3 1/2 feet deep with no plant shelves and that doesn't deter the herons. It does keep the raccoons out but the not the herons (or the snakes). I have one fish left and won't be restocking - I still love my pond and the wildlife it attracts but have decided that wildlife and domestic fish are not an easy combination.

Gosh, it's been a long time (and a big learning curve) since I started this thread. We never did have the installer redig the pond; I was afraid we would create more problems by messing with the liner (the pond has mortared rock ) re: leaks, etc. His excuse for not going the specified depth was that they hit a large stump (I would have told them to rent a stump grinder if they'd mentioned it) and that I didn't specify a koi pond. But I did clearly specify at least 3' in depth; even they admit that. Oh, I now know that I have a Savio system with the biofalls and skimmer. The bottom drain is only for draining, not recirculating. Not enough filtration and too much water current IMO. My water quality and clarity is great due to all the plants and consistent weekly 10% water changes.

We ended up joining the local koi/watergarden club and bought seven young koi at a club cull sale. They said these would be my "suicide fish" with a new pond, but guess what? They are all still here, growing and healthy. And this in spite of a massive heatwave (100+ temps). My water has been up to 92 degrees each day but the fish seem fine. Probably (definitely eventually) too much fish load for my pond which I now think has no more than 1500 gallons according to my calculations. All of the fish are fairly small (7" and less) at this point. I also have two small shubunkin, one small sarassa, and a large adopted comet. In hindsight, I actually like my goldfish best and they are the most tame. The herons haven't found us yet (knock on wood) but I am resigned to the fact that they will come as we live near a floodplain/greenbelt.

My husband and I decided that we want to add a second pond for the koi (deeper) connected to this pond with some sort of stream. We will add more filtration and a recirculating bottom drain in the 2nd pond and the top pond will function as a bog filter/goldfish pond as I really am enjoying the plants (especially lilies) as much as the fish! We got a bid from this same contractor which was totally out of sight (7'x8') with 4' depth, recirculating bottom drain, bioball filter tank, and dragon filtration for $16K! We just laughed and said no thanks. We are planning on a DIY project this time with lots of advice from experienced club members. We will contract out the digging and rock work and think we can do a much larger pond for way less $$. We are hoping to work on it this fall/winter if we can afford it.

Glenda: you wouldn't know if any of these fish suppliers have Wakin goldfish for sale? I would love to have a couple after we expand our setup but hate to order onlne and have them shipped; I'd much rather see/select them in person. I plan on making a trip to both Bonnie's and the place in Franklin when time allows. I have three children so it's tough to find an open weekend.

I don't remember seeing any Wakins on either of the sites. It's difficult to find Wakins. I found a site in Canada and one out in Washington that have them. I'm still waiting on an answer from Wakinworks in Wa. I'm supposedly on their call list. I have one Wakin and he is orange with black markings, which is very unusual for that kind of fish. I like the red and white ones. They are known to love to eat plants, kinda like Koi. I love my plants and maybe I don't really need any more as the one I have hasn't started eating my plants yet. Glenda

If it was a line item in your contract that it be 3 ft. , I would sue the guy. Please don't put koi in this pond. It's a good idea to check out what someone does before you pay them for the job these days.

The reason for depth in koi ponds is not just for winter or summer temperatures it is for the health of the fish themselves. Swimming up and down exercises different muscles than just back and forth at one level.

Koi in shallow ponds often have atrophied muscles and poor conformation. This is not noticed by the novice but readily apparent to experts.

Depths of 5' or even 6' are common for koi breeders and those who are serious about koi shows.

If anyone is interested, I breed wakins and have a limited number that will be for sale Spring 2008. I can ship within the USA if you are not near MN or are planning a trip here. Write to me at johnmeyer60025@yahoo.com to reserve some wakins.

Hey guys I am new to this forum. I was wondering if any of you guys have built a green house over you pond?
The reason why I am asking because I have loved ponds all my life and my only fear (of owning a pond) is attracting snakes. Also, if you don't mind will you provide some information on the cost and maybe some pictures.Thank you very much.