I went to a seminar on pruning roses. You can cut them down to a reasonable height for you to take out the dead wood and the branches that are rubbing. If you feel that they won't come back with a huge undertaking of taking them down in height then do it gradually.

First, I'm assuming that you mean your roses are HYBRID Teas, not Tea Roses. Because there is a huge difference.

Second. NOOOOOOO .... PLEASE DO NOT PRUNE THEM TO TWO FEET!!!

This is not something you do in the zone you are in now, where roses are not going to freeze.

In fact, your roses would grow and bloom quite happily with NO pruning. But I think you want them to look more disciplined, right?

So think on this:
REMOVE NO MORE THAN ABOUT A THIRD TO (at most!) A HALF OF THEIR HEIGHT.

But before you even begin to do that, FIRST remove all of the dead growth.
Then, go relax, have a cold drink -- leave for the day, if you want to.

When you come back, think about the form you'd like your plants to have in the spring. Shorten canes to achieve that. BUT DO NOT REMOVE MORE THAN 1/3 THE HEIGHT, TO START WITH! Remember -- You can always cut more off, but you cannot put it back.

Remove crossing growth if it offend you (it does NOT offend the rose).

Under NO circumstances prune your roses to two feet.
A couple of years of that treatment, and you can dig up the dead stumps and plant something else.

For more, check the link below. (And, BTW, I think they recommend pruning too low!)

Jeri in Coastal Ventura County, SoCal

Here is a link that might be useful: OTTO & SONS ROSES CARE GUIDE

Yes, I'm very sure they are Hybrid Tea Roses. This comes directly from the woman who planted them.

On the worst plant, I am not seeing any green at all. It all looks brown. How do I tell what is dead wood? Or is it all dead wood at this point? It bloomed last year.

The canes on the others are VERY small in the upper third, yes no bigger than a pencil. I was worried they wouldn't be strong enough to support the roses, and indeed they really flopped last year. (We moved in during the summer.) I guess they won't miss that!

Jeri, I assume you mean that if I cut them to two feet, I will end up replacing them in two years, but not if I go more incrementally, right? I just want to rejuvenate them, not kill them! I can be patient. I have lots of time (in terms of years) for this project, and would prefer not to replace them. They are lovely in bloom.

Is it true that a bit of epsom salts will encourage basal branching?

Thanks!

MacThayer

Listen to Jeri! She knows her stuff. In cold climates you have to prune harder in the spring because of winter die back but in warm climates that's not necessary. And even in my cold climate I've learned to listen to the rose and I never just summarily hack them down because someone said so. In the spring I cut them back only to where there is viable cane now and not just all of them to an even 18 to 24 inches. My roses leaf out and bloom sooner as a result because they don't have to expend all that energy growing back canes!

To tell if the cane is dead snip about an inch off the top of the cane and look at the inside. If the center is creamy or white the cane is still alive. If the center is tan or brown the wood is dead. Keep clipping off small segments (just above a bud eye on the cane) until you get to that nice creamy/white center. That's where the canes will start to grow from. On the outside of the canes if there is a dark streak down the cane that's usually a sign that that cane is dying. I've left some of those on before because the center looked good but in the end the cane died back to the end of the streak anyway. So now I take them right off.

The upper canes usually are the smallest. If they're stiff they'll probably hold up a bloom just fine. If they're soft, as in very flexible, they won't hold up a bloom. But some roses do that naturally and the blooms do "nod" on them.

If you want to keep them shaped, when you cut blooms to take in or dead head the spent blooms just cut a little longer to get the shape you'd like to keep them at. That's the time to do it because you're cutting anyway. And remember that pruning usually stimulates new growth. So cut deeper than you want it to end up at. But most HTs will naturally want to be between 4 and 6 feet tall. And some of them can get much taller if you let them!

Thank you all! My new goal is to "shape" my rose bushes. I grew up in the North, just moved here, so it shouldn't surprise me that roses are treated differently in this climate.

Thanks again! You've really helped!

MacThayer

Less is more sometimes. Old neglected hyb. teas need the dead wood removed and then look and see what is young and fresh and thick but not just brown and woody. If you have lots of young fresh canes coming from the base then hooray because you can gradually remove an old woody cane as the young ones come up to replace them. Sometimes there aren't any newer canes and if you cut down to old old wood, no new growth will come out of that old brown wood- it just dies back to the ground. If that is the case, you just shorten back the newer wood, not going all the way to the old wood.

If I was a gardener working on someone's neglected roses, I wouldn't want to risk possibly killing them either by trimming them hard. But if you think they are growing well, you could try reducing them them more. A good safe bet is always to fix the soil, feed and make sure there are no weeds, apply a good layer of mulch and water really well. See how they grow. Sometimes new growth will shoot out and then you can remove some older non-productive wood.

I worked on a neighbors plant this way and over the span of 3 years we got it to be very healthy and produce loads of the most fragrant red flowers( I'm guessing Chrysler Imperial but who knows for sure). This bush will never be a perfect specimen. It has two funny looking woody legs and all the bush starts 23" up off the ground. He underplanted with tall annuals so you don't see it. But he loves it and it loves him back for all the care he gives it.
Watch for growth that is from the base and different than the growth up top. Stressed out old roses sometimes send up growth from the roots that is not what is grafted on top. Eventually, it may take over as the top part dies off. A house up for sale on our street had lovely roses. It sat on the market for 2 years while no one watered them. Rootstock growth appeared on half the stressed out plants. If you aren't sure, you can sometimes tell the difference in the flowers when it blooms in spring.

Jeri, I assume you mean that if I cut them to two feet, I will end up replacing them in two years, but not if I go more incrementally, right? I just want to rejuvenate them, not kill them!

*** If you cut them to two feet, even if you do so "incrementally" you will eventually destroy them. Abandon any plan to do that, and let them grow.
Never, EVER plan to remove more than 1/3 to 1/2 of the height of the plant at pruning.

The only people who really need to do that, in a mild climate are those who exhibit roses. They want to achieve very long stems and blooms of size, at the expense of volume of bloom -- but this happens at the expense of the life-span of the plant. It's not for the non-exhibiting mild-climate gardener.

Jeri

I understand Jeri. The whole idea is to remove dead wood, and keep the roses nicely shaped, but NEVER to cut them down to 2 feet, or anywhere near that. So this year's pruning is going to be about 1/3 off the top for this season, keeping a good shape in mind, plus the dead wood. Also amending the soil and properly feeding them, which has not been done in years, and see how that affects the roses. Depending on how that goes, I may or may not be able to take a bit more next season. I'm sure the roses will be "talking" to me by then, and letting me know how much of their canes they are willing to part with!

Thanks so much for your help and concern!

MacThayer

Hi, MacThayer, though I don't grow HT's but rather the original Tea Roses (and other warm climate roses), I am in Zone 9a (the humid Florida one). In this zone EVERYthing grows bigger. I know folks here who grow HTs who in August have rose bushes that are 8' tall. At that time they cut them back (summer prune) to just below shoulder height on a man, and these are the exhibition growers. That works out to about one-third. With mild winters, abundant sun and water, and long, long growing seasons even mini's don't stop growing at 2' in Zone 9a. Things are different down here - real different. All the best to you and your roses, and let us hear from you often with photos!!

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

There are so many views about pruning. A popular idea is to completely take out a few of the the oldest canes when they quit becoming productive as long as a new cane has come along as a replacement. I am trying this method on a few of my plants now. I remove completely the canes older than 4 years and let the new ones grow in. This requires a vigorous rose and one that is not declining due to a virus that is weakening the plant. (some older rose bushes will have this and grow fewer canes a years pass as a result). Of course then my plants grow up to 5 and 6 feet tall and the roses are past where I can see them. I never whack them so low as you often see being done. The plants like being left tall of course and will give more flowers but they will be smaller than if you shorten the bush. I've been shortening some of my HTs since the early 80s and they are still with me so I think they can withstand some trimming as long as they are not virused and are well fed, mulched, watered,etc.

Kitty -- Yes. But you are shortening your roses gradually.

You just don't come in and suddenly whack overgrown roses down short.
Moreover, he probably will do better if he takes his time, and gets to know how these particular roses "want" to grow.

Jeri

Absolutely right. Thank you jerijen for giving me good advice here because I used to cut them all really short regardless of what they were. I have much better plants today and I learned to look at each one as an individal thanks to you and Karl.

Well, the deed is done, and it's nothing like I originally envisioned. I want to thank this forum for making me slow down and LOOK and think before jumping in with both feet. The landscapers sheared off the tops so the roses looked like a hedge -- we're talking flat top here. So I got a ladder, and "shaped" the top, taking the time to cut according to the location of the buds, and now it has what seems to me a much more natural appearance. I didn't remove even a quarter of the growth. I did remove some dead wood -- trimmed inch by inch down to the "creamy" center. That took one cane down to the base, but only one. I did remove an old cane because the canes looked "crowded" and now the canes have the same "density" throughout the bush. The rose seemed to want that. And now I have to go to work on the REAL problem.

The real problem is the soil. The lady who planted these roses sold this house 7 years ago to two lawyers who turned the landscaping over to a landscaping company. And no, the landscaping company doesn't use compost or any kind of fertilizer. They expect the owners to do that, and the former owners didn't. (They didn't take care of a lot of things!) The soil is in bad shape. It needs to be brought up to snuff or it won't grow a healthy rose. That's the bottom line. These roses need to be brought back to health before I can think about doing a lot of pruning. Unhealthy plants won't grow good canes. I'm going to replace what soil I can (being very careful not to disturb the roots), plus compost, plus organic fertilizer. I was thinking of using that Bayer Liquid Fertilizer as the first application, only because as a liquid, it will reach all of the roots (at least in theory). I know "more is not better" when it comes to fertilizer, so I can't just dump a bunch on and expect it to work. The organic stuff will have to work its way down, and thank heaven I at least have worms!

Any other suggestions on how to gently enrich the soil and feed my starving roses?

Many Thanks!

MacThayer

WHEEEE!! Happier roses ahead.

Take things one issue at a time. Kitty moonbeam to her area, and MacThayer to his.

Mac, look to local rose societies for soil composition issues. Failing that, try for local Master Guardeners. I emphasize local, because soil issues, like water issues, are going to be very condition-specific. And where development and "Landscapers" have been at issue, they mess things up.
Of course, the ideal would be a rosarian next door neighbor. But we're never that lucky.

Jeri

There are an awful lot of soil problems that can be corrected by adding a layer of compost to the top of the soil each year, and doing so year after year. It helps to improve sandy soil, clay soil, alkaline soil, and acid soil. While it will not solve all problems, I can't think of any one thing that would make your roses happier.

Rosefolly