I'm in zone 5 (Michigan) and my hardy lilies and goldfish over winter just fine. We do cover the the main pond with a tent and run a bubbler. I think the rule is 24" deep but I am not a pond expert. Someone will be in with details for you. I am sure you would enjoy a shallow pool with waterfalls too as it will attract lots of birds, frogs and other critters and not be as much work.

Toronto girl

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http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ponds/msg051254402017.html

It is my story, from thinking about installing my first pond in May to a completed pond in June. I am in love with it and we did it all ourselves (DH, son in law and myself).

My fish are happy, my water is clear and life is good. We also wanted a garden pond with waterfall, lillies and comets.

It is doable.

I'm in zone 4 (5 on a warmer winter) and I leave my fish and hardy lily out in the pond all winter.

My pond is a preform 2.5' deep, 160 gals, so it isn't a big one. I would prefer to have it about 3-4' deep and would do that if I were making it with a liner.

I have covered it in different ways over the past 5 years. This past winter my fish died I think because the bubbler stopped working (you have to keep a hole open in the ice for them). This coming winter I think I will use a deicer. I may decide to make a greenhouse type cover for it to use with the deicer.

According to the pond store near here and what I have read otherwise, it is more stressful for the fish to be brought in for the winter. However, I have friends that do that and the fish seem fine, so I don't really know the answer to your question about bringing them in for the winter. My lily stays out all winter just fine. Matter of fact this summer is the best it has ever been.

To be honest, a water feature without a pond is much easier to care for, but then you don't have fish and lilies and they do add an element of fun. In the beginning I was so dubious about everything. I thought things to death!!! Really it is much easier than I thought it would be and I just love it.

Personally I say, "Go for it." Do the pond!!!!

Anne

Hi TorontoGirl,
I'm in 5b/6a as well and I installed my pond three years ago. It's a lot of work - I'm still "working" on it in fact, but it's really worth it. :-)

My pond is a little larger than yours, about 7 X 10 and a little over 2500 gallons when you include my stream; it's sixty feet long. I have two koi and two comets (and about 25 babies this year!) and they have overwintered just fine in 32 inches of water. And, we'll probably never have a winter worse than the one we had last year.

In addition, I've done every possible thing wrong. I tried to sledgehammer the ice one year not knowing how bad that can be for the fish. I let it freeze over that year too, multiple times. I didn't use an airstone one year because I read you didn't really need it. Last year, the water level dropped for some unknown reason and I thought for sure they were goners. You name it, I've screwed it up. The happy ending is that the fish have been fine and thrived. I have since learned the error of my ways, much of it on this board. Read up!

I can't answer your plant questions - not my gig.

Good luck!
-Chris

Here is a link that might be useful: My pond album

I can't tell you about overwintering. But, as for fountain or pond? You can do both. And, I'm with Chris - seems like I've done everything wrong - but it is a lot of fun. And the enjoyment from the plants and fish is just so much more than I anticipated.

{{gwi:217404}}

~dianne

Guys, thanks for the advice and encouragement. I'll definitely make a fish pond water feature with a waterfall feature and waterlilies. I still have a lot more research to do to figure out all the specifics.

lisa11310: Its good to know that hardy water lilies can overwinter just fine in the pond! I really don't want to bring water plants or fish indoors if I can avoid it.

pcan: Your pond is lovely, and you made it so quickly! It was inspirational. I'll likely go back and reread the thread several times. I'll definitely build my pond myself. I'm actually using this year to design and collect supplies and will commence building next year.

pashta_2006: Anne, I'm mostly zone 6a with the harsh winters being zone 5b. However, it is wonderful to know that the fish and plants survived winters colder than mine! I'll take your advice and build a pond 3 to 4 feet deep. I'm not entirely sure how you would keep a hole open in the pond ice... more research I guess.

chris_in_ct: Chris, you are making me want a trio of koi to populate my pond! It is good to know that pond life is so resilient. I'm not sure what an airstone is... so yay, more research!

gardengimp: Dianne, I do dearly want a waterfall feature, cascading or otherwise. I'll be sure to incorporate it into my pond design. I do want a more formal looking water feature with crisp lines as opposed to the traditional pond with organic borders. Your pond is gorgeous!

Hi, I am in Edmonton. I winter my fish in the pond which is a bit smaller than what you want with the use of a stock tank heater. I have a small preform spillway that I run all winter and the watercress winters over easily. I leave the fish and plants in the pond and haven't had any issues. I have had parrots feather and water hibiscus winter the last couple years. It is an option if you don't want to move in and out yearly.

The sound and sight of moving water is both relaxing and entrancing. The steady splash of a fountain or the echoing cascade of a waterfall enhances the pleasure of sitting outdoors. A garden pool can be relaxing and romantic at night. Fragrant night-blooming water lilies scent the air while moonlight sparkles on the water's surface and on foam from a fountain or waterfall. There are two basic styles of pool design: for�mal and informal. A formal pool is of a sym�metrical or geometric shape such as a circle, square, rectangle, or oval. An informal pool is irregularly shaped, mimicking nature's own designs.

If I remember correctly, gardengimp's pond continues on the other side of her walk. It is really unusual and quite lovely.

The advice everyone gives is good so I can only add that if you can possibly make it larger, do it. You won't regret it. Somehow larger ponds (within reason) are even easier to maintain since problems are magnified and happen faster in really small ponds.

Of course, coming to this forum will make everything easier and more pleasing.

I vote with the others. Go for the pond. Here you will find all the questions you have, answered by some really awesome people. That is how I got started on mine.

It isn't as hard as you might think, but the hardest part is trying to figure out the language of ponding. What is what, and what is it used for and so on.

As for the airstone question, I am just using 2 airstones from Walmart with a $6 air pump. All I do when the cold weather arrives, is set the airstones with airline tubing in the pond about 6 to 8 inches below the water surface and plug in the little pump, which I have enclosed in a small box to protect from weather. The purpose is to keep a hole open in the ice by using air bubbles and water movement if it freezes. The hole allows gases in the pond to 'escape' which helps the fish get through winter easier.

There are alot of ways to do the same things. I bet everyone has a list of 10 things they would do different if you asked them. Every pond is different and I love mine and love looking at the others for inspiration. I am now in the planning stages of my next pond. It will be awhile before it happens, but the planning is half the fun.