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jim_w_ny

Soil analysis OK for roses?

18 years ago

pH 6.2 low to medium, Phosphorus high (177#/acre), Potassium high (890 #/acre), Magnesium high (380 #/acre), Calcium high (5,620 #/acre), Aluminum 35 #/acre, Iron 7#/acre (too low??), Manganese 64#/acre, Zinc 68.4 #/acre, organic matter 4.6%, Nitrate (NO3-N #/acre), Salts (Kx100000) 49.

Recommendations: lime 2#/acre, Nitrogen 90-100#/acre, Phosphate 50 #/acre, Potash 50 #/acre. Wondering why since P and K are high why put on more?? Also organic matter seems low but nothing about that. What is typical for good rose soil??

That's it!

Comments (9)

  • 18 years ago

    The pH should work just fine and soluble salts are nice and low so you're off to a good start. You're right, iron is a little low. Consider adding an iron source in the backfill at the manufacturer's label rate.
    Since phosphorus and potassium are already at good levels, you don't need to add them, but a slow release nitrogen source such as Nitroform 38-0-0 or equal should provide some benefit through the establishment period. An organic alternative is feather meal.
    Organic percentage is actually pretty close to where you want it. It wouldn't hurt to add a little more in the backfill. Just be sure not to place organic matter under the root ball. I would do a backfill mix that is about 90% on-site soil to 10% organic material by volume. One option is a nitrogen stable organic amendment such as nitrolized fir shavings. If you use compost for the organic material, the fertilizers I mentioned above may not be necessary depending on the analysis of the compost chosen.
    The reason why the recommendations call for phosphorus and potassium to be added is because recommendations generated by a computer are strictly for entertainment purposes only.

  • 18 years ago

    Comparing my roses with what I see on the GW rose site mine are horrible. I'm wondering what is wrong. Could iron make such a difference? Most responders on the rose site recommend what seems really massive amounts of organic matter. But I'm willing to try anything!

    Thanks Squon... sp?

  • 18 years ago

    Oh I get it, you're roses are already installed and you're trouble shooting. Here's the thing; it's tough to make a diagnosis based on a soil test unless there is something horribly wrong with your soil chemistry that really jumps out. That is particularly true when we don't know what the problem is. When you say "mine are horrible" what does that mean? Horrible in what way?
    Sure, you could use some iron, but I didn't see anything that looks too awful bad in your report. Of course, there are other possible chemical hazards that your data does not address.

  • 18 years ago

    Well, keep in mind that a lot of people on the rose forum aren't in zone 5a. That's pretty cold for many roses - not that it can't be done, but it takes a lot of work to prevent damage to canes in winter. In your zone, you need to be very careful about selecting varieties and may want to consider growing some of the totally hardy once-bloomers. Be sure, too, that you're comparing apples to apples - a rose that isn't a hybrid tea isn't going to look like a hybrid tea.

    Iron could be one issue for you since low iron can prevent uptake of other nutrients. If you're not seeing chlorosis, though, you may not have an iron issue.

    Massive amounts of organic matter - well, yes, you will need that. Find yourself a friendly, nearby horse farm and start shoveling the you-know-what. When I first started amending clay soil, I was absolutely blown away by the amount of OM the soil could consume. I mean truckloads every year, yards and yards of it.

    Most "serious" rose growers also fertilize - a lot. I personally only spread alfalfa pellets in the early spring so I don't have a lot of advice to offer on that. A z5 roser needs to be sure to fertilize only fairly early in the season, even if you expect a fall bloom flush, because of the likelihood of winter damage to late-season cane growth.

    Finally, if you're growing roses that are susceptible to leaf disease and if you're not pretty dedicated to a spray program, the flowers won't be as nice as they could be. This is the other very good reason to choose your roses carefully.

  • 18 years ago

    I saw a picture on GW of the Kores climber Illusion. Mine is several years old and it doesn't look anything like the picture which showed a much more vigorous plant covered with flowers. Rather typical of so many of my roses.

    I'm very conscious of hardiness and I have very few roses that are not hardy in z5.

    I have very little leaf disease.

    I've planted roses said to be great and some times they almost disappeared. You had to look for that one bare cane.

    Now that is mainly "modern" roses. Old roses and rugosas do fine. Some Kordes do likewise.

    I'm thinking it might be some contaminant in my soil. This used to be an old farm and my rose garden is around what used to be old farm buildings. Now mostly torn down. What might they have used that causes a problem and how do you test for such things? And once found how to remove it, them?

    I guess an obvious cure it to do the massive additon of organics such as horse manure and so change the soil by diluting whatever is in my soil!

  • 18 years ago

    There is no reason to add any P or K since you already have too much for optimal growth and applying N at 100 pounds per acre is such a minimal amount that it is probably not necessary either. The level of organic matter, 4.6 percent, is low and more is indicated, that level should be in the 5 to 8 percent range. So organic matter, such as compost, or a shredded leaf mulch, would be a good addition, but I would not add any animal manure which will add to the already too much NPK you already have.

  • 18 years ago

    Well, if the rugosas aren't showing chlorosis, it isn't the iron.

    And if they and the OGRs and some of the Kordes are happy, then the soil must be OK. Are they all grafted onto the same rootstock? Rootstock can make a big difference and I found that multiflora worked best (better than own-root, even) when I lived in z5NY.

    The most likely possible contaminant from a farm building would be kerosene or diesel. I've only ever had home heating oil to clean up and there was no mistaking THAT. If you stuck a trowel in the dirt, the smell was very noticeable. And it would bother all the roses. I have a distant memory of a friend with an old house whose in-ground heating oil tank leaked and the decontamination was very expensive, entailing removal and disposal of a lot of soil. You probably don't want to go looking for that kind of trouble, but there are environmental testing services that test soil samples for contaminants that can detect lead and other heavy metals as well as petroleum products.

    Another possibility around farms is lime because it's often used in stalls, but you know that's not your problem.

    I'm still inclined to suspect the roses.

  • 18 years ago

    There can be a number of reasons plants exhibit signs of chlorosis other than low iron levels. Low Nitrogen, Potassium, Magnesium, Zinc, Sulfur, Boron, Copper, Manganese, and Molybdenum levels can also contibute, or cause, chlorosis.

  • 18 years ago

    Thanks all.

    I'm going to try iron and much more compost and such stuff. And more pruning.

    And I'll look into an evironmental lab to have them check for contaminants.