While I agree with your general sentiments, I don't think one needs to retrench so severely on hybrid teas if one likes them. Mine are mixed in with other plants (roses and non-roses) so that it isn't particularly noticeable that I had to spring-prune them nearly to the ground. They also regrow vigorously, attaining a decent size and bloom before the spring flush is over. I think having them mixed in with other plants is the key to success.

I had grown a few hybrid teas for years, but when I decided to get serious about roses about 5 years ago, I planted mostly shrubs at first--and most of them were David Austins. I've loved watching them mature--lovely shrub shapes and blooms--but after a couple years, I realized how much I missed also having some big fat hybird tea blooms. So I dug another bed where I could include more of them (with some other plants). I've really enjoyed them--but I also really enjoy my shrub roses. Wouldn't want to sacrifice either type. Each has its own distinctive type beauty.

For the record, I have about 20 hybrid teas/grandifloras; about 20 Austins and a few closely related type shrubs; and another 25 assorted hybrid perpetuals, hybrid musks, climbing roses, mini roses, etc. The only reason I don't grow OGRs is because the ones I like tend not to be hardy in my region. Regardless, I love all the different kinds of roses in my gardens.

Kate

Michael, I have had some HT's that I dearly loved but they are gone. I did not kill them. This morning I looked at Careless Love and just wanted to cry. I agree with what you said about the garden looking better. The two exceptions are Quietness and Lafter for me. They do well and are healthy. Life is just too short to grow risky roses. I'm pretty smitten over all of my mosses, teas, chinas, and rugosas.

Carla

Well said. I still have about 15 HTs, but they are ones I really really want. I just added Wildfire, mostly because my husband wanted it (he loves orange) but I still do like the HT bloom form. But now I have many more OGRs, Teas and Austins. And yeah, you have to be patient and let the things grow for a few years before you can tell if it's good or not.

Kate makes a good point about mixing HTs with other plants if you expect to have to prune severely after winter. What I was complaining about is a column of little soldiers all lined up and limping through spring. Some that don't limp, though, are well-established plants of Warm Wishes/Sunset Celebration and Savoy Hotel (cane-hardy here) and Elina (explosively vigorous despite canes being wiped out every year).

Michael - what are your most favorite of your roses that you grow? And do you have any pictures of your most favs?

Carol

Carol, I'd have a hard time picking favorites. The past few years I've been gradually replacing all the roses I'm not wild about, so I really like all my established roses and I'm watching my newcomers develop. This week the best-looking ones are Mme Plantier and Clair Matin, very big, graceful plants that are covered in bloom and wafting fragrance.

I didn't mean to diss hybrid teas in general; I really enjoy the ones I have. But having big, cane-hardy shrubs makes such a difference in the spring garden.

I made the move 7 years ago out of necessity as I couldn't get out and winter protect my tender hybrid teas any more. I agree with you about the spring flush and my hybrid rugosas begin blooming 2-3 weeks before the rest of the roses. I still have a bed of hybrid teas and am willing to put up with the dieback but mine grow to a good size quicker than you indicate yours do.
I've long advocated growing roses suited for the area. My programs emphasize this. I'm getting a pretty large following of people who know I'm about the only source of hardy own root shrub roses in the area.
A garden center where I'm giving a program in June asked me to bring some as they only carry Knock Outs, and hybrid teas.
My hope is to encourage people to grow roses again. So many stopped because they tried the only roses available at the garden centers and big box stores. Now many who said they can't grow roses are successful and trying other types

Michael, You now MUST name the *6 or 8 mostly fragrant HTs* that you'll be retaining in your garden.

Fragrance is the sole criterion?

Michael is right about one thing in particular. Grow the roses that make you happy. And Karl followed up with a good point about being able to adjust when your "can do" isn't able to keep up with your "want to". One of the things I've conceded as I grow older is that if I want roses that appeal to me then I will have to shrink the number of roses I grow. A heart Doctor told me once, "I don't have time for alot of roses, so I've chosen to grow only a few. I grow 10 Hybrid Teas to perfection and that's just right for me."

"One of the things I've conceded as I grow older is that if I want roses that appeal to me then I will have to shrink the number of roses I grow."

Me too, Mary. :) If I get all excited about and get a new rose, out goes an older rose. Keeps life simple and more carefree while still getting the thrill of trying something new.

Debbie

Growing what does well in your zone makes all the difference. A well-grown happy plant is a pleasure to look at, even if it's as common as dirt. A rare exotic struggling to survive is not entrancing, it is depressing.

I grow Austins and HTs because they are spectacular here. Some roses that are reliable and hardy and disease resisant elsewhere (Flower Carpet, Knock Out) are duds here. If I lived somewhere else, I'd grow what has the potential to be spectacular in that climate.

I grow a couple of non-fragrant HTs that do particularly well, Elina and Savoy Hotel, and I'm trying Naga Belle because of the claims about blackspot resistance. Fragrant ones are Chrysler Imperial (x 2), The McCartney, Jadis/Fragrant Memory, Tiffany, Valencia, Warm Wishes. I also have Barcelona and Frederick Mistral, which aren't typical HTs. I'm about to give up on Sweet Surrender. I have only three floribundas, Irish Hope, Blueberry Hill, and Apricot Nectar. Oh, and Mother of Pearl looks like a keeper, but it is hardy, shrubby, and Buck-like, though classed as a grandiflora.

It's really important to plant evergreen behind your roses so they don't look leggy or top heavy only with their bloom. They are not the prettiest plant actually - IMHO, so plant them as though they are perennials... you wouldn't plant a perennial in a stand alone setting would you? maybe you would.

I see many people make this 'mistake'... they have bed afer bed of nakedness with a roses then another rose then another rose. It gets plenty of sun without doing that... don't expect a rose plant to carry the whole look of the bed - it won't, it can't. I love a boxwood hedge with roses in front... HTs look so nice when the tops bloom above the hedge... beautiful...

Don't give up on those HTs. and mine too grow from ground to tall before their first bloom in May or June...

now, I'm not saying how you feel about your choice is wrong... jsut not necessary. But I'm glad you have a deep joy about your rose garden now. That's what counts.

virakech,
I disagree. My beds of nothing but roses are not bed after bed of nakedness and I've seen lots of others over the years where roses do carry the whole look of the bed. Perhaps you're growing the wrong kind of roses?

Michael, I completely understand where you're coming from. It's not just shrub roses versus hybrid teas. There are many classes of older roses and they can vary from 30 foot climbers with large flowers (or small ones) to dainty polyanthas with sprays of small, sweet flowers and everything in between. They climb, they tumble, they spread. They make a beautiful statement in the landscape in addition to some of them having many more flowers in one season than a modern hybrid tea ever could. And then there's the fragrance! That's not to say that modern roses don't have fragrance. I love the fragrance of my Julio Iglesias and it's a beautiful rose and a nice plant as a whole. But a dozen of them will never make a romantic, rich-looking garden as a dozen old roses that include noisettes, teas, chinas, polyanthas, damasks, ramblers, tea climbers, Hybrid Perpetuals and Portlands can, and I'm only naming roses that I can grow in my climate zone. Diversity in roses in a garden is exciting and beautiful, and puts it in a class of its own. But I also have Classic Woman, Yves Piaget, Burgundy Iceberg and Julia Child, and quite a few Austins, so the moderns also have their place. But why limit yourself, especially if your zone is not suitable for hybrid teas and/or floribundas? Why spray poisonous chemicals when you can grow beautiful varieties that don't need it? Okay, I will now climb off my soap box, hope that I haven't offended anyone and hope even more that even one person who reads this will be interested enough to want to explore the complete world of roses. Thank you.

Ingrid

Sometimes a plant can be too happy--last year our Peace opened up its first flush in the rain--so I cut around 8 big blooms and brought them inside. Hopefully the neighbors will get a better show--it about 6 feet tall right now! Folklore is another plant that grows tall quickly--lots of buds at 5 feet.

I've been experimenting with several styles of planting--our big OGRs are single file, but curved around the house, with a backdrop of climbers and rugosas along a chain link fence. At the front of the single file are big HTs, so it looks like it is constantly in bloom if you look at it from the street--you are looking at the row end on.

We just put a fence around a mini bed of 16 small roses around a bird bath that used to be in the main garden--until I realized you couldn't see it anymore, as the plants grew too big.

Our latest bed has lots of HTs, but I've intermixed climbers as well as four 8 ft pillers that hold hanging flower baskets. Instead of the usual rows, I've planted the roses in tight clusters of four, with access space between the clusters. It is really something to see a new bed with mature HTs that quickly fill the space.

HT's have their place in every rose garden. While I prefer shrub roses, I too have a dedicated HT bed interplanted with low perennials and some annuals that is where I sit in the morning and have my coffee.

Michael, I used to get frustrated having to cut them to the ground each year and then baby them back to life but now I think the change in climate has made it much easier to grow modern roses. I used to lose some but I haven't lost or planted a rose in several years. My garden is almost all modern roses and while this last winter was tough they are nearly all doing well. Quite a few are over my head and they have just begun to bloom. This has been a great spring with warm weather, just enough rain and no late frost. I will post pictures again later this week when we get some blooms.

Henryinct, I agree that climate change has made a difference in that much of Eastern zone 6b has actually been zone 7a or 7b for most of the past 20 years. This means that many normal HTs and floribundas are now cane hardy and that winter losses are fewer. Still, I had to cut three to the ground (or nearly) this spring, and one of them is limping along with only a few shoots. Also I doubt that subzero temperatures are gone from my neighborhood forever.

For those of us near the borderline, relative hardiness within the classes of modern bush roses ought to be a factor, but there's not a lot of information available.