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misssherryg

Both Quercus Michauxii?

19 years ago

About 7 or 8 years ago I found a big swamp chestnut oak growing at a roadside rest station near here, so the next fall, I went back and picked up a few acorns - they were the typical, big SCO acorns. I planted them, and 2 of them came up and have been growing at a fast pace since then. After the hurricane, I ordered 3 more SCOs, which I planted last fall. The leaves of one of the 7 year old SCOs looks like the leaves on the newly planted ones, also like the leaves on SCOs I've seen growing in woods elsewhere. The leaves of the other 7 year old tree are different, with a deeply lobed area near the top - all the leaves on this tree look the same - all the leaves on the other SCOs have are uniform in shape, all the typical SCO shape.

The leaf on the right is the typical SCO leaf, and the one on the leaf is the atypical one. Could the tree that the left leaf came from be a hybrid? There were lots of other types of oaks growing near the SCO - water oak, pagoda red oak, live oak, a bluff oak (I think) and probably others. Or is this an entirely different type of oak? I can't find a picture of a leaf just like it in my field guides.

{{gwi:346516}}
Sherry

Comments (12)

  • 19 years ago

    Looks like a possible hybrid with Q.lyrata.

  • 19 years ago

    They're both beautiful.... love those big leaf oaks! I'd also love one of those oriental big leaved oaks.

  • 19 years ago

    Agree with ALtreehugger - looks like it could be a hybrid with overcup(Q.lyrata). All the other oak species you mentioned, with the exception of live oak, are members of the red/black oak group, and would not hybridize with Q.michauxii or any other member of the white oak group.

  • 19 years ago

    I thought bluff oak/q. austrina, was a white oak.
    I forgot about post oak/q. stellata - those are everywhere, so there were undoubtedly some of those in the area - post oak is a white oak.
    Anyway, it looks to definitely be a SCO hybrid, with SCO being the "mother" - the question is, "Who's your Daddy?" :)
    Sherry

  • 19 years ago

    sherry,
    you may be right- I'm away from any of my reference materials, and I'm not familiar with Q.austrina. Sure doesn't look like there's any post oak introgression. I'm still voting for an overcup in the woodpile.

  • 19 years ago

    Q.austrina is a white oak, but the the leaves of those usually have smoother edges. Sometimes they are actually mistaken for Q.nigra .I still see Q.lyrata in that leaf because of the more pronounced teeth.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Auburn Hort

  • 19 years ago

    I think y'all are right. I've got two bluff oaks, and the edges really are smooth.
    There are undoubtedly many hybrid oaks in the woods, since there are many different types growing close together - interesting! I guess I could name mine Sherry's oak/q. sherryii - hehehe!
    Sherry

  • 19 years ago

    Sorry, Sherry, it's already been named: Q.x tottenii Melvin.
    But, I might want to hit you up for a cutting of dormant scionwood from 'Sherry's Oak' at some point in the future, to graft into my growing collection of hybrid oaks.

  • 19 years ago

    You'll have to tell me how to take a scionwood cutting or come get it yourself, Lucky - I have no clue how to do it. The tree lost several of its branches on one side when a big tree fell during the hurricane, but it's recovering nicely - it's full of leaves, and it's making plenty of new growth.
    I Googled q. tottenii Melvin, but couldn't find a picture. Anybody know where I could find a picture of q. tottenii Melvin?
    Sherry

  • 19 years ago

    Sherry,
    I can't locate a photo of Totten's Oak - named in honor of Dr. Totten, a botanist at NCSU. As far as I can ascertain with a quick Google search, NC is the only place where Q.x tottenii is confirmed to be present - but anywhere SCO and overcup oak grow in close proximity, it's possible that that hybrid seedlings could occur.
    So far as the scionwood is concerned, I'll just have to try to remember to contact you next Feb. - I'd just need a couple of 6-8" pieces of the previous year's growth with well-formed buds.

  • 19 years ago

    looks like a swamp white oak - is ist white on the under side?

  • 19 years ago

    I went outside and checked the undersides of the leaves, and they're as green as the topsides. I also found a photograph of swamp white oak/q. bicolor leaves, and they don't look like the ones on this tree to me. I found the acorn that grew this oak under a swamp chestnut oak - I'm sure I correctly ID'd the mother oak, since other acorns from the same tree are definitely SCO.
    Can you test DNA on trees?
    Sherry