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nothofagus questions

18 years ago

I have long been intrigued by the Nothofagus species, the "Southern Beeches" native to the Southern Hemisphere.

Would I have any hope of growing one successfully in Maryland? I would presume a deciduous variety might be hardy enough in winter, but I worry more about the hot humid summers being a problem.

Any information on these? I presume a N. antarctica or perhaps a N. pumilio as well might be the ones to try.

Also - a related question - how does one move a plant from one hemisphere to another? I mean the 'first time.' Like the first time an apple tree was planted in New Zealand...the seasons are opposite so if you move a tree in March, when the apple is ready to come out of dormancy in the North, it's now early autumn and totally out of whack - how is this done the first time? I know that from then on they can be cultivated locally, but how's it done that first time?

Comments (18)

  • 18 years ago

    Antarctic beech will surely be your best bet.

  • 18 years ago

    Yep, N. antarctica is the only one with much chance of being winter hardy, but it probably won't like your summer heat at all.

    Resin

  • 18 years ago

    Anyone know the answer to my second question about transporting across hemispheres?

  • 18 years ago

    Yep, N. antarctica is the only one with much chance of being winter hardy, but it probably won't like your summer heat at all.

    Truth be told, I'm not a fan of our summer heat either! Close to 100F today!

  • 18 years ago

    Yes: At first they may be out of sync but most kinds soon get in step. An exception is Grevillea victoriae which blooms in northern cultivation during the same months it would if still back in Australia. Summer there, winter here - a summer-blooming shrub that never made the change to different months when brought to a different hemisphere.

  • 18 years ago

    I'd suspect if moving a plant from the Northern hemisphere to the Southern hemisphere, early December might be best. The plant would be dormant and would most likely have been dormant long enough to be able to break out of dormancy and enjoy the rest of the growing season, which would be late spring to early summer in the Southern hemisphere at that time. But I suspect most plants transported from one hemisphere to the other were done by seed(which can be stored and then planted when appropriate), or were done in modern times when greenhouses can be used to control the climate the plants are in, and thus slowly be adjusted to the outside season.

  • 18 years ago

    A bit earlier than that is better - about October for north-to-south, or April for south-to-north. The Nordic Arboretum Expedition successfully moved young Nothofagus seedlings from Chile to the Faroe Islands in April a few years ago.

    Bboy - "An exception is Grevillea victoriae which blooms in northern cultivation during the same months it would if still back in Australia. Summer there, winter here - a summer-blooming shrub that never made the change to different months when brought to a different hemisphere" - does that still apply to seed-grown plants? If yes, then there must be some other explanation.

    Resin

  • 18 years ago

    I'd think that moving a plant from North to South in October is too early for many(most?) plants. Here most trees and shrubs at least aren't completely dormant until early November and don't begin entering dormancy until very late September. I've moved some North American native trees growing in pots from being outside to cool storage in October and then to a warm growing area in late October only to have them either 1)Respond well, but later on, by about March they fry up and die, or 2)Not respond much until late January and then later fry up and die around June. Then again I didn't do this with a lot of different species and I have noticed some squirrel planted Pin Oaks(Quercus palustris) in pots with tropical plants, which I moved directly from outdoors(well before any frosts) to a warm growing area and they didn't drop their leaves and put out new growth in February apparently none-the-worse. This could be because of their age, or their genetics. I've noticed that often times seedling Oaks sometimes do this even outdoors in the ground(not losing their leaves in winter). It's often proposed that Oaks originated in tropical climates and some species have later become adapted to temperate climates(most Oak species are sub-tropical today) and this behavior could be a hold over from Oak's tropical origins, but who knows for sure.

    It appears many temperate species need a certain amount of dormancy or resting time to remain healthy, while a few others don't appear to be as sensitive. It would be interesting if anyone in the Southern hemisphere knows about or has imported Northern hemisphere plants directly from somewhere in the Northern hemisphere and when they did it. The only ones I know about being brought from the South to the North, have all been done by seed or cuttings which were put in pots in greenhouses where they could control the growing conditions, including temperature.

  • 18 years ago

    I wouldn't think that moving in April would work - the tree (from the S. Hemisphere) wouldn't have had any time to be dormant yet...the only way I see it working is immediately at dormancy, like April, do about two months of cold storage then warm it up in June outdoors in the N. Hemisphere.

  • 18 years ago

    "I wouldn't think that moving in April would work - the tree (from the S. Hemisphere) wouldn't have had any time to be dormant yet"

    Experimental evidence is that is does work, very successfully. And not small sample sizes, either: over 1,000 seedlings of mixed species moved to the Faroe Islands in late April/early May 1975, and 6,500 Nothofagus seedlings moved to the Faroe Islands in mid April 1979, with close to 100% survival. See e.g. S. Ãdum, A 10 year trial with South American trees and shrubs with special regard to the Nothofagus spp., pp.125-156 in Højgaard et al., A century of tree-planting in the Faroe Islands, Føroya Fróðskaparfelag, Tórshavn, 1989.

    Resin

  • 18 years ago

    Do they just burst right back into growth like nothing happened? Is it perhaps the day length that kicks them back?

    I'd imagine as well that seedlings do better at this than mature trees.

  • 18 years ago

    What's a good source for these trees and/or seed? Preferably a North American one just to save shipping cost if nothing else.

  • 18 years ago

    "Do they just burst right back into growth like nothing happened? Is it perhaps the day length that kicks them back?"

    I'd guess yes, but the article doesn't say.

    "What's a good source for these trees and/or seed? Preferably a North American one just to save shipping cost if nothing else"

    I'd think that the big west coast nurseries like forest farm would probably stock an assortment of Nothofagi. They might only sell on a no returns policy, or perhaps even refuse to sell, if they think there's a high risk of failure in your climate.

    Resin

  • 18 years ago

    I'd think that perhaps the study with the Faroe Islands might be somewhat different than if they moved plants from more continental climates to Northern hemisphere continental climates. I'd think that since both the climate of origin as well as the climate in the Faroes is not strongly seasonal(i.e. cool summers, long cool relatively mild winters with only moderate temperature changes from summer to winter, etc.) that the plants are much less reliant on a dormant period than plants from more continental climates. That's just my educated guess, since I can't find any information involving more continental climates or no greenhouses where the climate can be controlled completely or seeds were moved and not plants.

  • 18 years ago

    This link is to a New Zealand Nursery which routinely ships field-grown, bareroot plants, gives all the details. The requirements for quarantine are such that one really has to want the plants desperately.
    I've never seen Nothofagus anywhere in eastern US. As others have said the heat & humidity here have been unbearable over the last week. My suggestion would be forget Nothofagus and choose something suitable for mid-Atlantic.
    Sam

    Here is a link that might be useful: Duncan and Davies

  • 18 years ago

    "I'd think that perhaps the study with the Faroe Islands might be somewhat different than if they moved plants from more continental climates to Northern hemisphere continental climates"

    That could well be true. It would be difficult to test other options though, as there is no continental climate anywhere in the southern hemisphere!

    Resin

  • 18 years ago

    I've never seen Nothofagus anywhere in eastern US.

    Why do you think I want one? ;-)

  • 18 years ago

    Well, a few parts of South Africa and South America (Argentina, Paraguay, interior extreme Southern Brazil) come close to being considered continental climates. Lots of perennials from South Africa do well here in Kansas as perennials(more than you'd think).

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