Since peat moss is supposed to lower a soils pH what happened since nothing except that peat moss was added to that soil?

If peat is all you added, then there is a very good possibility that a lab error occurred in either the initial or follow up test. It happens far more often than people think.

Before you get sucked into this, kim, wouldn't you really rather admire my pumpkins? I mean I'm as willing to discuss controversial subjects as the next gal, but do you really want to do it on a thread that a real live, true Troll, as it is defined here in the Forum world---has manipulated you into? You are nothing but gratifying his anti-social urges.

I have friends that I met on this forum in 1999. There's a large group of us. At least forty of us call each other 'best friends' now. We travel to each others' homes. We meet each others' families. We've become really fond of each other, care about each other. I've had 11 people I met on Garden Web visit me here in the summer five years in a row---seven of us at a time. A large group just met up in Illinois at a friend's farm. 22 of us all got together in a state park in Maryland three years ago. I go kayaking and camping regularly with my dear friend from here, Hayseedman. Sometimes he makes me go to dances with him. I know five GardenWeb women who have danced with him in four different states.

I've known Franklin since around that same time. All of his posts since 1999 or so begin with some pleasant inquiry, something like this: Would this be good for a strawberry patch? Would this be good in an asparagus patch? Would this improve my soil? Would this be good for rickets?
The opening line of his posts is always: "Hi Folks...would a mix of peatmoss..."

Then, kim, the suckers who debate him get called stupid and urged to go visit the website of the Canadian corporation who benefits from the sale of peat moss. Every. Single. Time.

I've known you for around a decade, too, kim, and while some people may find you rather repetitive and unbending, at least your motives are pure. So, friend, I am begging you, begging you, to admire my pumpkins.

I can't make Photobucket do my bidding any more, but if I could, I'd post some photographs of my HUGE seaweed haul.
I bet lovestogarden doesn't have as much seaweed as I do. :^)

Here is a link that might be useful: trolling for peat 2004

So here I am, popcorn in hand, waiting for the show. The red cape has been waved, the bull has obviously seen it and the air is ripe with expectation. And along comes AP to distract the bull with a come hither bale of hay and shiny trinkets to look at. The cape holder recognizes this tactic and vigorously tries to get the attention back to the duel about to begin but AP flies a banner across the sky "DON'T DO IT!!"

The bull hesitates and the moment is lost.

Can the bull be engaged? Will we see the annual epic battle? Or will the distraction continue?

Stay tuned....

;-)

Lloyd

I wouldn't be here at all, except lovestogarden, with his braggadocio ways, could not be outdone in the "Leaves" thread, pretty much leaving me no place to go. Then I thought, "Hey! Franklin's a good sport who won't mind sharing some space with me."

Well, and then while I was here, I saw kimmsr starting to wallow into the quagmire, and I felt compelled to rescue him and get this thread back to where I hijacked it.

So, seriously? Not one comment about close to 60 pumpkins? Did you hear that I said Five TRUCKloads of seaweed? Not little Brat-sized truckloads, I'm talking Tacoma-loads.

I, (I'm the rodeo clown, is that what you're saying, Lloyd?) saw the bull zeroing in on that damn, eternal, red cape and I hauled a HUGE bouquet of PUMPKINS and waved them under his flaring nostrils.

I'm fond of the bull, and I can't stand seeing him get pricked in the back with that little what do they call that thing that's sole purpose is to set up the bull? Is it called a picador, or did I make that up?

Well not exactly a clown, I can't recall seeing a clown in a bull fight. But you surely got the gist of it. (a few more pictures ought to complete your mission, show your frozen snow blower again, I really enjoy that one for some reason)

I too fell for this a few times whence I was but a waif in the peat/no peat arena. Now I just sit back and watch the show. "Let the games begin" I say.

Lloyd

Did not find a pumpkin--one, But got 22 loads added last week.... (Mack loads).

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.flickr.com/photos/daguvanuh/5221207300

Just to add my 2 pennies worth... It is NOT what is best and or perfect for the optimum soil... To me its what can you find and use to make what you have a little bit better.. Whatever it is it is all good.
I'm extremely blessed to have found this and have the tools to aquire it and now the interest, and finding the knowledge to use it.....much here.
Is it perfect? No. But is it better than my ol'clay? yes. I'm learning, keep posting as it is a tool I enjoy reading..........personalities included.

ÃÂ la Jaws, You're gonna need a bigger tractor.

;-)

Lloyd

"I hauled a HUGE bouquet of PUMPKINS"

My pumpkins are bigger than your pumpkins....neener. (Didn't see you down at pollydaze there AP, that musta hurt.)

dag, it's not fair that you get to do stuff in the winter...I need a seasonal handicap or something. Can I get a ruling from the judges??

The peat/no-peat issue has been around for a while and AP is just trying to apply a tiny "course correction" to the asteroid whilst it's still a long ways off in the hopes that we bypass the cataclysmic collision. Long story, happens every year, can be amusing now that I realize what is going on. I got sucked in a few times.

;-)

Lloyd

daguvanuh, well, we can't all have pumpkins!

For Lloyd's amusement:

{{gwi:289489}}

And many hours of ice chipping later and getting wet up to my waist:

{{gwi:314684}}

annpat,
I did have a comment about your pumpkins in my reply to Franklin, but it got lost.
Anyway your pumpkin photo really makes the case to repost a comment on your pumpkins.
I thoughjt that you might turn into Cinderella with all those pumpkins and when you first glance at your photo, It reminds me of midnight and those sheds could be your coach if you don't look closely!

ps, I for one love the pm in my soil and I buy it by the Cubic yard cheaply...6ü miles away.

Phew! I was beginning to think that I was in a parallel universe and no one could hear me or see my pumpkin pictures! When one has to blow one's own horn too much, the pleasure one receives from the eventual acknowledgment feels somewhat lessened. (But I'll take what I can get.)
Thank you, Wayne.

Anyone else?

annpat
I'm simply overwhelmed with your pumpkin score. heh, heh. Thanks for exposing him, pretty pathetic when a person can't find more productive things to do in life.

Gary

Tiffy, I am surprised your pile is still hot in NS in Nov. Are the Polar bears turning it for you??? My pile is just about froze solid....though the fishing has been good and my pile is getting a tasty treat of fish guts.....and believe it or not, no raccoons. I even left them on top thinking they would get them, save them the trouble of digging and all...but not a peep, so I buried them a couple of days ago. Oh and i don't know whether or not Peat moss is good or bad...but i figured we were all off subject anyway...

Annpat, the only time I get that many pumpkins is when I steal them off my neighbors porches.....though I wish California would break off and fall in to the ocean making Neb a coastal state then I could drive there and get seaweed...SIGH..

Hi Folks...I find it interesting that a liking for and use of PM would draw so many crackpots out of the woodwork. But I'm glad I've been exposed...as one person has said...it takes a big weight off my mind. Just what is it I'm guilty of anyway? Oldmainer

Pumpkins make nice compost. I still have a few melted carcasses in the front of the house, waiting to be scooped up and added to the compost pile.

The slimey pumpkins do clash with the recently added christmas lights.

"Just what is it I'm guilty of anyway?"

You're a troll, dear, you like to stir the pot just to rile people up. People whom you might, after all this time, feel some affiliation with. But that's all right, I'm used to you. And if people come down too hard on you, I'm going to have to find some way to defend you.

Wayne has really hit on something. There is perhaps nothing more beautiful than a lawn full of pumpkins on a late November evening. Throw in a full moon and lovestogarden's little leaf score PALES in comparison, don't y'all think?

And Gary and berry!! What took you guys so long?!

berry! How could your pile be frozen!? In what godforsaken place do you live? You're putting bread in it, aren't you?

Berryman,
I knew someone would doubt a hot pile in NS so I ran for the Kodak...

{{gwi:314685}}

After turning this one, I added another case of rotten bananas, leaves, UCGs, water (hose is froze so had to use the watering can), and other incidentals. No Pumpkins though since Annpat has managed to get all of those. Pile is now resting and undoubtedly heating up again.

Oh, and yes, some bananas were good enough to leave on top for our raccoons. No polars here but we do have coyotes - big ones!

Hi annpat...your right...I visit every now and then to see if PM and it's uses will stir some folks up. I still can't figure out what causes some on the list to get foaming at the mouth about it. The goverment says that one in five folks suffers from some kind or type of mental illness and I believe some of those are here on this list...:-) Anyway...I will tell you that your pumpkins are nice and I hope you haul home many more from the dump. Oldmainer

Well, that was sweet.
I swear, if you were here right now, Franklin, I'd split my latest score with you. Not halfsies, maybe, but something generous. That's how fond I'm feeling tonight.

Annpat,
In the Frigid plains....we should be ice fishing next week...well some have been out already but my Thanksgiving was real good this year so I will wait for the ice to thicken.

Tiffy, did you say Kodak or Kodiak?? I didn't think they were as easily trained as polar bears... My better half is a NS maritimer, born on PEI raised in Truro...when we were engaged and I went to visit the first time, I was terrified that there where polar bears up there....

I did read that NS Coyotes killed a kid not long ago...our Coyotes are much smaller...I love the maritime s, want to retire in Pictou,,,,SIGH again....is there any Walmart garden center openings up there???

Berryman,

I meant the Kodak camera you silly! Much easier to handle than a polar bear.

Our coyotes were bred with wolves some time ago so yes, they are much bigger than elsewhere. One young lady visiting from Toronto was killed by them a year or so ago in the Cape Breton Highlands.

Walmart? I'm sure there's one somewhere around here that could use a greeter!! :O)

Interesting thread but I'm just walkin' on by while admiring AP's pumpkins and Tiffy's steam. Wouldn't *think* of mentioning p_ _ _ m_ _ _ or b_ _ _ _ as such things don't exist on this forum. ;-D

{{gwi:314686}}

I seem to be looking a little peaked, wouldn't you say?
My summer tan is fading away.
Oh well, tomorrow is another day.

signed Scarlet

Annpat, those a beautiful pumpkins, almost glowing in the twilight.

I'm a little torn right now. Torn between a terrible guilt and something else. This is just going to sound like more bragging, but this is the first year that I have gathered almost more seaweed than I know what to do with. I have so much seaweed right now that I'm actually contemplating mulching my entire yard under 6-8 sheets of newspaper, seaweed, pumpkins, and hay. My compost piles are heavy in the seaweed ratio.

So, the other night I'm dining with my mother, brother and sister-in-law and my brother mentions that he might be going to get a last of the season haul of garden seaweed the next day. I say, "If you go, I'll follow you down in my truck and get another haul myself. In fact," says I, "I'm going to make it my mission this winter to single-handedly clean up the Deer Isle Causeway." For whatever reason he didn't call me on Saturday, and Sunday, I hear a truck out front and look to see my brother topping off all my compost piles with forkfuls of seaweed. Just about the time that mortified I am yelling out the door, "Jim. Jim," he's probably realizing that he's walking through excesses of seaweed just to get to my bins. I yell, "No, keep that seaweed. I was just being greedy. I've gathered tons of it," and he said, "Well, I'll just finish off topping off your bins."

So, I'm torn between guilt...and greed. I realized today that the only way I can repay my brother equitably (far more than equitably) is with a begrudging truckload of my precious chicken manure---I obviously can't give him seaweed---and I should shovel it up now and give it to him to add to his compost piles before winter really sets in. I could give him some fairly precious (and hot) leaves/grass clippings, but he might be suspicious of municipal grass.

Oh, there I go again! Sounding so conceited talking about my HUGE FREAKIN' HAULS this fall! Again, forgive me.

Lucky gal, you look like a nice old-fashioned girl. I'm glad to finally be able to put a face to your name.

Don't feel quilty, his efforts are very noble and his benefit is harbored within himself. (Its a man thing).

Back to your pun'kins, ---you did leave a few left in the world for seedstock didn't you?

So, are you saying that it would actually be insulting to my brother if I were to repay his male generosity, his gift of seaweed, with my even more generous gift of manure? I do not want to offend my brother, of course.

Regarding the pumpkins, I never left the state of Maine, if that's what you're worried about.

Annpat,
This may sound silly, but never using seaweed as compost, I was wondering,
Does the seaweed make your compost or soil salty? Does it have any adverse effects?

I read years ago that the salt from seaweed was negligible, but I was surprised to see the sodium numbers that someone mentioned recently on their container of seaweed compost. I've always used seaweed, but not in the quantities that I have this year. I'm going to have a soil test done now if the ground is not too solidly frozen; if not now, next spring. In the past with widespread and quite generous applications, I've never gotten a soil test back mentioning a problem, but I'll be curious next year. I can't see any problems in the garden.

I don't know if I'd buy expensive seaweed products, but it sure is nice having it free nearby.

In an 1857 book titled Gardening For The South it keeps advising adding a lot of salt!

Here is a link that might be useful: Agriculture library

How intriguing, a compost troll! Not the everyday kind of troll that infests internet forums. I don't think peat moss would make a good mulch anyway, it's hydrophobic when it drys out.

Annpat, I've checked and rechecked the thread but can't see a link to your pumpkins. I'm sure they are very admirable! Loyds pumpkins are nice too, and Tiffy's compost looks great!

Dagunaugh, at the risk of looking like an inattentive idiot, what is that black stuff you are tractoring there??

They are Beautiful!

I don't really know how to do a link to my photos, so I embedded the picture. I'll describe it to you:

It's dusk and the air has a tangible color to it as happens at dusk. In the background, two gray sheds, the one on the right a chicken coop, glow blue. In the foreground, the former lawn of my youth (I now live across the street) there are dozens of pumpkins (there are twice that number now) laid about the deeply mulched lawn in an artistic, if braggardly, fashion. "Oh! Look at ME! LOOK at All MY pumpkins, aren't I GREAT!!," they seem to be saying. (Some of the pumpkins have mouths.) In the Nov. dusk, the pumpkins glow a bright orange, matching the square, red glow coming from the chicken coop window. In the right foreground is an ill-conceived planting of hydrangea. It got plowed into a hoop last winter.

Next summer, that lawn and part of the road will be covered with pumpkin vines. I expect to harvest at least 20 pumpkins from it, but my primary motive in mulching that lawn so deeply is just keeping it deep and fertile. That's how I'm managing my un-mown yard now. Deep mulching large areas of it annually. Last year I covered an area all around my vegetable garden with at least a hundred bags of leaves. This summer I covered them with newspaper, seaweed, an old wool blanket and hay, enlarging my 2011 garden greatly. I successfully eliminated a rampant, invasive buttercup in that part of the yard. Before the snow, I was deep mulching an area that I'd lost to blackberries. I cut them down to the ground, covered them with used kitty litter, covered that with newspaper, seaweed, and hay, and I have expectations that I will be able to eliminate the blackberries there. I'm going to build a raised bed and plunk it in the snow there.

And the next time I go to Portsmouth, I'm bringing you, Franklin, a nice big load of seaweed. You can meet me on the interstate.

"Dagunaugh, at the risk of looking like an inattentive idiot, what is that black stuff you are tractoring there??"

No risk in asking a question here.
I get 3 to 7 (mostly) year old compacted leaves from municipal dump. Last few years the collected leaves have gone to landfill. Before that they were stockpiled at a collection point but very few were picked up from local composters.
The collection point just was becoming a dump...as the street sweeper/washer deposited its debris there and the trash intermingled with the decaying leaf piles.
I get it, get it tumbled, moistened, and let it finish composting. Get it screened, cleaned and sell to local landscapers, sports field contractors, and several builders. The litter/trash is bagged and then took to landfill.
Its still a hobby now, kinda something to do when I'm not hauling with my dump truck.
It finishes out like a dump truck load of potting soil to the end user.
The interest I have now is getting raised bed garden plots started and use a lot here at my home..
Let me say this... My local city Public Works director says if you, me, all of us, or anyone would USE this stuff rather than let it become TRASH it would save the city $25K plus per year.. I live in a town of appx 30K people.. There must be thousands of opportunities like this for compost all over the world. Look around and see if your local town needs help with something as this.
My PW director has told me if I could not haul it away (and they load my truck free) they would when they are not busy HAUL it to me...
It is 4 miles to the site and I can get 4, 20 yd loads in 2 hours to here, have them on the ground and then be doing something else.
I could not sell a dimes worth to anyone on this board as about 50 miles is as far as I haul so please do not think I'm soliciting... My POINT is simply people reading this and people that are trying to find product to compost may find it in quanity if you ask.
It has been good for me, its saving the city money now and in the future, and now composting here seems to be of more interest because of the prolonged drought we have been in.

----So my answer to you is semi composted leaves, and my challange to you is see if there is some near you...

Yes, I found the local goldmine.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Brewer dump

You had this one for some time have you not? I hope it is new but I feel you have would have checked this out earlier in your compost CAREER.
Any find is a good find but there is some good stuff out there waiting to get picked up.
Hope this chill (uggg) is finding everyone just board but not uncomfortably cold...

.....make the photobucket picture bigger... can't see what all is there..if you can.

Plants, leaves, pine needles, grass clippings, apples, pears, pumpkins, etc.
Always available.

{{gwi:314687}}

Yes, we all know Franklin's m.o., but I've always found the whole thing entertaining.

Annpat, yes, impressive pumpkins. You just have to expand and augment your bragging picture techinque, like this
{{gwi:265837}}

That sign brags about the yard, the shirt (Steelers-super bowl champions) brags about my team. The picture is a 2-fer.

Karen

Oh! Very nice! Look at you!! Bragging everything up---and with signage! Nice touch.

(I got an award this year, too, which must have killed my neighbors. I got it for not mowing.)

OK, annpat, I gotta hear that. Please, do tell. If they give awards for not mowing, my husband is going to want to relocate to your neighborhood.

Karen

I live in a high, arid desert with alkaline soils. Blueberries grow in acidic swamps at much lower altitudes.

So, of course, I figured that if'n I add enough PM, I can turn a small patch of local dirt into a blueberry growing spot. So I dumped cubic yards of the stuff, stirred it up, planted a dozen bushes.

After 4 years and no growth what so ever, half died, I moved the rest into large pots with acidic potting soils. That didn't work either.

So, all in all, spread out over 8 years and spending I dunno how much money, I'd picked a pint.

People in Maine have like whole big patches of the things that just grow wild. I mean, they rake them even. Like leaves. A natural bounty of blue berries, and here I am with some Charley-Brown-Christmas-tree-like foot high Bonsai plants with 4 berries. One of these days, I'm gonna go for a swap them some fresh cactus leaves for a case of blueberries, using a blow torch to get off the spines.

When a lad, we used to go camping in Idaho, and once camp was set, spend the afternoon eating wild blueberries and watching out for bears. Good times, good times.

I have this for breakfast every day from late June until late September. {{gwi:314688}}

I'm always surprised to hear the conditions that blueberries need in other parts of the country, because my blueberries (and all blueberries in Maine) grow on granite ledges in about six inches of the most powdery, dry, lousy looking, soil, which you can barely penetrate with a shovel. They are never fertilized unless you count the bi-annual burning to the ground they get.

They're tough plants. They get driven on, walked on and mowed with heavy, soil-compacting, equipment. ATVs do them a world of hurt, though.

Karen, I live on a lake. The DEP loves a lake dweller who doesn't groom their property---hence my award. They liked that I mulch, too. The big deal was, though, my lack of mowing, which EVERYONE ('cept me and the DEP) HATES!

Blueberries, whew. I thought it was a bowl of eyeballs.

Karen

HARD BROWN COCONUT SHELLS. I read about the husk and the coir, but I have a steady supply of the HARD BROWN COCONUT SHELLS. IF broken down to chips or crushed, is it beneifical as a mulch or can it be benificial used as a soil amendment???? Please Help.

I get pumpkins after Halloween from a neighbor who grows them for retail sale from their front yard. I don't compost them directly unless they spoil. I prefer to cycle them through the chickens and goats. It makes the egg yolks super deep orange. Even the shark feeding frenzies on TV don't hold a candle to the goats when they smell the pumpkins all chopped up. I have to be very careful not to let them trip me as I wade to the feeders!

Thanks for all the giggles, folks.

Hi Old Mainer,annpat,gardengal48.
I have coffee ground & whole beans mixed in my coffee chaff.
Which I get free from a local plant, they pay a dump truck drive to deliver it to my 5 acre lot. It is cheaper for them to give it to me, then put it in the land field.I was paying someone to haul it for me, a load or two every year. The other people stopped getting it.I have 10 dump truck loads on my land now & will get 2-3 a week until someone starts getting it again. I wish you all where here to get a few truck loads. Sounds like you would know what to do with it. Would chaff work as a mulch on my blueberry bushes? YES, I have put it around all 20 plants & got berries the next spring.
I know this sounds like so much BS. But when I have time I will tahe some photos & try to up load them to you.

Hey, no one answered poor saigee's query about HARD BROWN COCONUT SHELLS. Can one use HARD BROWN COCONUT SHELLS as a mulch or amendment? Would you use HARD BROWN COCONUT SHELLS on a dare? Would you use HARD BROWN COCONUT SHELLS anywhere?

S(e)ussing out the situation,

Rain

As for coconut shells...if they were ground they would be useful. I don't know about chips. It would depend on how long they take to break down. They still might be ok for some kinds of mulching.

annpat, I received 4 boxes labeled Maine blueberries yesterday......182 pounds. Only thing, they are bags of Azomite and phosphorus.