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kstrong

what is causing this deformation?

15 years ago

Look at this pic (and there are 5 more in the linked album).

This is a plant of Fifi, a new floribunda I got this year as a budded maiden. I don't think this is Rose Rosette Disease for three reasons --

1) we don't have RRD in SoCal

2) this plant came to me last October as a budded maiden plant on seed-grown multiflora from Wisconsin

3) there is no red or purple anywhere on these leaves.

The history is this -- I got the plant as a single bud-eye already grafted to seed-grown multiflora, but the bud-eye had not yet sprouted when it arrived. The multiflora plant to which it was grafted had leaves and looked completely normal, and it grew fine here for most of the winter while I was waiting for the bud eye to "take" and to begin to grow, which it finally did in about February. A few normal leaves grew, but then the one cane began to grow these deformed leaves. I cut off all the deformed leaves down to the first few leaves, which appeared normal. Now that one cane is growing out again with the same deformation. The first few normal leaves, which can be seen in this pic, are from the first growth, and are beginning to die of old age.

{{gwi:309174}}From fifi weird growth

So, if it's not RRD, as I think it's not, what could it be?

Any and all help is appreciated.

Should I keep it and see what happens, or should I dispose of it?

Kathy

Here is a link that might be useful: 5 more pictures here

Comments (12)

  • 15 years ago

    The lack of red does not necessarily eliminate a diagnosis of RRD. I can't say whether your rose has it or not, but it certainly looks odd.

    I had a Hybrid China in my garden this spring that I suspect had RRD, and the symptoms were a whole lot more subtle than I have come to expect. The leaf margins were asymetrical, it had multiple breaks at each node, the internodes were overly thorny and elongated and twisted. I've seen enough RRD to conclude that my rose had it, and it is gone now.

    I'm waiting along with you, to see what others think this is.

  • 15 years ago

    Any kind of herbicide, like Round Up, can cause similar symptoms to RRD. Even if you did not use a herbicide ask around your neighbors to see if they did. I had this happen to me a few years back. My neighbor sprayed all over his yard for poison ivy and the wind carried it over into my yard and roses. (If he'd just clean up the mess behind his garage and keep his hedge in order he wouldn't have poison ivy either!) If that's what it is cut it all off and let the plant regrow. But it can take several years for them to really bounce back after being sprayed.

  • 15 years ago

    Seil -- that was my initial thought too, despite the fact that this 5 gal can was edge to edge with three other cans containing similar plants at similar stages of development from the same source. And that's why I cut off the initial deformed plant material and expected it to just come back okay. Now that it has started to grow again and is showing the same problem, all I can do is wonder.

    Connie -- I just can't believe this would be RRD, given that the rootstock was seed-grown and grew healthily here for the whole winter without showing a single symptom of RRD on the multiflora. It would almost have to show it on the multiflora initially don't you think? Could it just hide in the roots only to show itself on the graft? That would be really weird.

    And there's a part of me that just wants to think maybe this is normal for this variety -- anyone else grow Fifi? There are no foliage pics on HMF.

    Kathy

  • 15 years ago

    The other strange thing was that the first four leaves were proper, showing nothing weird -- then this. And I KNOW we don't have RRD here, or even on this side of the Rockies. I've never seen it amongst my other roses, and they get inspected daily.

  • 15 years ago

    Kathy, I just wanted to add that an Ann Peck article says there have been scattered reports of RRD over the last 50 years in states west of the Rockies, including California. I'm adding the link.

    Have you contacted the vendor?

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ann Peck article

  • 15 years ago

    I just now did that and he said toss it and he will replace next season. So I did that. I don't know what it was, but I have too many rare and unusual roses here to put them at risk of whatever it may have been, not to mention all of my own seedlings.

  • 15 years ago

    Yeah, I know RRD has been observed in wild roses, in NoCal. Very scary.

    There's Round-up Damage, and there's also Rose Spring Dwarf Disease (see link)another problem which seems to be a virus.

    Jeri

    Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Spring Dwarf Disease

  • 15 years ago

    A budded maiden showing this kind of growth tells me the graft is not yet netted. It is very tender and the graft can very easily completely rupture from the rootstock. Pinch it and let it continue to heal and regrow.

  • 15 years ago

    If there is a possibility that it is Rose Spring Dwarf, you are fortunate to have gotten rid of it as this rose virus has been shown to be spread by aphids.
    ----------------------------------------
    A recent Davis full paper concerning Rose Spring Dwarf is available for general viewing:
    http://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1094/PDIS-92-4-0508

    See Table 1 for the results of their aphid spread tests.

    Also, of interest is that it appeared in their virus indexed plantings:
    "In this test, RSDaV was detected in many different rose species and cultivars from the Foundation Rose Collection at FPS. In all, 129 plants in this collection were tested, and 77 were positive for RSDaV. Some of the hybrid rose cultivars tested positive for RSDaV included Queen Elizabeth, China Doll, Heirloom, Lowell Thomas, Jack Frost, New Dawn, Uncle Joe, Bridal White, Butterscotch, and Cynthia. It is interesting that the virus was detected in more than 69 plants in two rows (total number of plants in these rows was 89) of the collection which were planted in the mid 1990s. In all, 162 samples of R. multiflora from the virus indexing rose blocks also were assayed in the spring and RSDaV was found in 94 plants. The majority of RT-PCR-positive R. multiflora plants were symptomatic. Another 40 additional plants from the same virus-indexing blocks were tested in the summer and 6 were positive."

    Here is a link that might be useful: link for above

  • 15 years ago

    I think it's possible for the budeye to have been infected in Wisconsin before grafting. The RRD mite favors leaf axils and budeyes. However, this theory might have trouble accommodating the fact that the first few leaves from the budeye were normal.

  • 15 years ago

    Thank you for throwing it away.
    Renee

  • 15 years ago

    If I had anything that even comes close to looking like that, it goes out to the burn pile, a cup of gas goes on it, one match and poof, it's gone.