Five live oaks towering over our house
forty large bags of leaves in three weeks in the spring
have to keep cleaning roof and gutters-have I given serious thought to arborcide ? duhhhh
Be that it may your heading deserves an answer-
We have trees or we live in a bubble.
The choice is not ours as developing countries are making it for us.
I think[sometimes] we should be grateful for what trees are left and it should require permits to remove any.
Down here the developers are bull dozing everything.Won't be long before air quality reflects that.

Guilt.

Our new lot is mostly shaded, lots of grass, azaleas, an area with ground cover where I'll need to pull innumerable maple seedlings each spring, and one sunny spot near the front door where I can grow roses. Why did a roseaholic buy a shaded property? Summers get hotter each year, air conditioning is a big expense, privacy screening is marvelous in a suburban neighborhood, I can use shredded leaves for mulch, etc. I have space for eight to ten roses in the soil and room for a half dozen potted roses and that's okay. As a forty mumble mumble something soccer mom I'm thinking that a few really nice, well cared for roses is the ideal. Your mileage may vary.

This will come under 'Well Duh'.
You have trees so your climbers have someplace to go....

patricia

Trees are beautiful! Just don't have too many planted in
the yard. And plant the right ones for the scale of the
yard. There is nothing like sunlight, dancing through the
leaves of a tree, on a crystal clear afternoon.

Pete is right! "We have tress or we live in a bubble".
Wise words from Pete.

Your air conditioning bills will be hundreds of dollars less, if you have trees to cool the air.
If you were to cut down all your mature trees, the value of your property for resale would decline, and as the underground roots rotted, you'd have subsidence problems all over your yard.
You'd have no windbreak to slow down the cold winter winds from the north and northwest. (Shelterbelt effect.)
The trees do have a limited lifespan; if you were to choose to cut down half of them, the other half might be the ones with unseen trunk rot, insect-pest problems and could be in line to die off.
If someone decides to put a really hideous home/business/highway nearby, you have a chance for noise reduction, visual pollution reduction, some privacy left as long as you have trees.

I like trees. My house was only 9 years old when I bought it and all it had was a pine tree in the front about 5 feet tall and a peach tree in the back about 10 feet tall. I've planted a sugar maple, a crabapple, a honeycrisp apple, and a cherry tree in the back. I'm probably going to plant another peach tree next year since the one we have is dying and maybe sweet cherry. Of course, since most of these are dwarf or semi-dwarf trees they won't interfere with the roses much, and the maple is very slow growing. I think I'd be annoyed by the trees if I had bought a wooded lot, but now that I have almost none I'm not happy either.

Besides all the above stated advantages of having trees, there is the good effect they have in "purifying" the air (reduction of air pollution).

I did have my giant sycamore cut down. It was so big that it was shading most of my back yard (no roses at all!). Would I have taken it down if it had been smaller? Probably not--I hate to cut down trees. However, it was so large that its roots were beginning to invade my sewer line, its large leaves kept ending up in the yard of my neighbor who cursed me soundly every fall, and if it ever fell (struck by lightning or something), it was big enough to take out my entire house. I was kinda scared of that monster-sized tree.

With the tree gone, I could finally grow roses--but it cost me an arm and a leg to have that hugh tree taken out. If you are going to take out a tree, do it before it becomes a monster so that you don't have to go bankrupt. The big, heavy equipment they had to use also screwed up my backyard royally--hugh compacted ruts left, other plants crushed, etc. Took me two years to get the backyard restored to "normal."

In its place, I planted a tree that will only get about 30 ft high--not 130 ft like a sycamore. At the very least, I figure I should plant a tree for every one I take out. At least, I don't feel so guilty when I do that.

Kate

Well i also bought a 47 yr old house with some large trees.
I've planted about 150 roses this year just finished today with 45 of them.Planted 13 trees sunday. I can't grow shade plants, they die. Not enough forest. It's really not an issue here. I've got 6 1/2 acres, the pond and bldgs take some of it and i let the farmer that farms around me use a couple of acres for soybeans so i don't have to mow it. My suggestion is to sell your house and buy one where you can have it all! LOL! Then you'll wish you had a smaller place.

We have 5 hemlocks that someone told me today would have to come down. They were planted way too closely together, which may have been ok when they were small, but they are on top of each other and the roots are encroaching on our creek rock wall.

If you have ever lived with the large large magnolia trees, they drop leaves every, I mean every day all year. Some right in the middle of my hydrangea bed and they can't be raked out or the other perennials would be damaged. Never plant on of those!

When my husband bought this house, it was surrounded by trees.
Set in the remnant of an old avocado orchard, it looked out on citrus and avocado orchards and an old
windrow blocked the view of the house next door.
30+ years later, there are housing tracts where the valley was once all orchards, and the windrow is gone.
We finally planted a pair of young pepper trees to give us back our privacy -- and for their beauty when
the sea breeze blows.
Roses are great -- an we have many of them.
But there is a need and a place for trees.

Jeri

I have two beautiful Maples. I love to look out my bedroom or living room window and see the green leaves. I look forward to this all winter.

Last year the city requested my permission to remove a couple of pine trees from my front yard because of some sidewalk work that needed to be done. I asked them if they could replace the trees with small flowering trees and they agreed! I've prepared a rose bed around the small trees with some plantings already, but will fill in next spring.
{{gwi:47467}}

Trees are great for hammock swinging and climbing.

I enjoy the sound of rustling leaves overhead.

The green light under my honey locusts is almost ethereal

When certain trees bloom, their perfume carries for many feet away. My linden tree is quite literally buzzing with bees when it flowers.

Hang Christmas lights on roses? I don't think so.

And with autumn peaking right now, the blazing orange, yellow and reds are justification enough.

When I bought this lot and built the house on it, there was not a bit of green. I planted the trees first and the roses a few years later. All are growing to plan, but as the trees arch upwards and touch overhead, they diminish the roses' vigor. I remove the roses as they decline. The trees will remain long after the roses and I are gone.

I just had 8 huge cedar trees taken out that were shading my whole back yard. What a mess they were! The crows lived in these trees and they would poop all over everything. They even would push thier young ones out of the nests constantly and I would find dead baby birds all over the place. One dropped right next to me while I was pruning the roses one day, scared the heck out of me. Their cackling each morning would just drive me crazy. I also had a large tree taken out in the front yard, the roots were growing right up under the foundation of the house.

It's not the trees- just the lack of space outside their lovely canopy. But besides a nice shady spot to relax and enjoy the roses, trees also keep us from buying every single rose we hanker after! The lawn keeps disappearing though...

Redsox:

I see we are all able to relate to your quandry in varying degrees. My spin on the situation is that as long as you are planting trees well situated to your space you are good. In our yard there were trees planted but not with forethought. Two birch in the back yard about a foot away from each other, a birch in the front yard that was ill for years but no one bothered removing it, and most recently the lilac and snowball bush that were planted so close together they had almost become one. You might remember the 'after' pic on that one as my husband cut those down about three weeks ago now.

I justify the removal of trees by replacing them with trees that make sense in more logical spots in the yard. I think the more space you have the more trees you need for all the obvious reasons. Just a question of making good choices:)

Kate

I live in Oregon where one can grow trees like weeds. Actually, my husband jokes that if you lay on the ground too long around here, you will sprout an extra arm or leg. Anyway, there about 37 zillion billion trees in this state & we cut down 46 of them last spring. When it was all done it didn't seem like we cut that much. But it let the sun shine on our house & roof & it's so wonderful. Plus it let more sun shine in the area that I grow my roses & flowers in. We need trees, but we also need sun. Both are healthy for us.

One reason I didn't notice mentioned is they act as a windbreak. The wind will drive you insane here. (OK, it is only a short putt for me) Trees and bushes along the west side of property are almost a requirement here. They provide shade in the late afternoon so it is pleasant working with the roses during hot weather too.

digger

I wish I had more trees. I live in a fairly new house which was stripped bare when built. I added about 30 pine trees to extend the wooded strip from my neighbors yards on a steep hill that I wouldn't be planting anything on anyway. Now I have a nice shady spot that the cats love to go and hide.

On the other side and back, we planted 3 cryptomeria and 3 little gem magnolia. I know what you are saying about the magnolia leaves, but they make great mulch. They don't break down as fast as other leaves. I just rake them into the flower beds.

In the front we only have a kwanza cherry tree and a bradford pear. THis year we planted 3 okame cherries, but those are specimin trees. We aren't allowed to have pines in our front yards, but we did put a maple in the front and hopefully soon it will cast some shade on the house.

Trees are beautiful and necessary.

I can't fathom life without trees. Trees are wonderful for so many reasons, check above.

Carla

Trees have their place. I happen to like ornamental trees very much. In fact I'm extremely fond of my Whitespire Birch in the front yard. It is a medium sized multi-trunked tree with gleaming white bark marked by contrasting black triangles. The mint green foliage is lovely in its own right and turns brilliant shades of gold in the autumn. This tree allows dappled sunlight to reach the garden floor, allowing for a wide variety of shade tolerant companion plants to grow near it. It also thrives in my heavy clay soil. Just love it.

B-U-T too many people plant trees without accounting for their mature size. I've said this before and I will say it again,

It is an act of utmost rudeness to plant a tree on or near the property line or in any spot where the tree broughs will cross the line or shade thy neighbors flowers-roses-fruits-herbs-vegetables.

Big oaks and similar sized trees belong on acreage, not small city or surburban lots. People who have big oaks, maples, etc on small lots should be punished with community service. Each morning they will have to get up at 5AM and go rake up the leaves that have fallen in their neighbors yards. They should also have to dig trenches along the property lines, sever invasive roots, then pull said roots out of their neighbors flower beds.

Frankly, I don't think the lazy @!#-$#@$-!@%$%$#-$@$s would survive.

A tree is the most noble creature. Longer lived and peaceful. Provides shade to us, homes to animals and gives us food year after year. We kill them without a thought to build our homes and turn them into paper that we toss into the trash. Why can't we grow hemp instead for disposable goods. It grows so much faster.

If we all planted fruit and nut trees, the hungry could be fed.

Our lust for killing them is partly warming the globe.

Gone are the ancient days, the holy Oaks and Olives. Gone are the Sacred Groves. We don't value our old forests. The humans that followed the herds loved the trees. Fallen wood to make fires was the difference between life and death. Chestnut flour was a staple in ancient Rome. Olive oil was a precious commodity in Greece.

Why don't we value our trees? They are cleaning our air. I would not cut one down unless I had no choice. I could grow so many more roses if I had no shade but the truth is that the roses do better getting only morning sun and then shade from the trees after 2 in the afternoon.

All my trees have names and I hope they will outlive me.

I think the forest is the place where the spirit renews. The air smells better, the wind sings as it passes through the trees. I feel more like a part of the planet there. I think there's a good reason JRR Tolkien put his favorite most highly evolved people, the elves, in the forest.

There's room for us all, trees, roses, people/ animals. Why don't we live and build mostly underground anyway? It gives everything else more space. Imagine a world of tunnels where electric cars never hit a single animal. I am waiting for that day. I pray the forests of old may
return.

I know I get all wound up about these things but I think if we loved trees and forests more, we'd be happier, healthier people in general. And yes, I wish I was an elf.

Molineux, you said it well! I love trees, in the proper setting for them. I am resenting (big time) my neighbors with their (now) huge oaks that will damage my home if blown over, and are starting to shade some roses. These oaks are about 20 feet from the front of their house. Why do they do such stupid things down here?!

Another neighbor has Sycamore trees that make a huge mess. They do try to rake them, but they still get under my thorny rose bushes, and if I don't clean them out every day or two, they start causing disease problems. The leaves are larger than my dinner plates and do not disintegrate. I could make clothing out of them.

It is enough to make me want to hang a for sale sign on my house, except I have personally done a tremendous amount of landscaping and like my house. I guess I never had any business moving into a planned "community". Imagine! I can't even have a couple of chickens in my yard if I want to, but I have to put up with someone else's mess!

I used to have property out in the sticks with no zoning. Lots of trees (away from the house). I sure miss that. The problem was, I had to deal with over 200 inches of snow every winter and no sunshine for weeks on end.

Sandy

Cutting a mature tree may produce some other unintended consequences, some of them making the tree-cuttter wish he/she didn't do it.

One major negative consequence is the vacuum the tree left on the property. The newly opened space causes rapid growth of everything at the ground level or understory that was heretofore prevented from growing large because of the poor sunlight they got. With an open sky, sunlight now floods in where dappled or heavy shade once dominated. The so-called "benefit" of no longer having to rake leaves is more than made up by the much higher maintenance of tending to shrubs, grass, vines, woody weeds, moss, and small trees, etc., in unchecked rampant growth.

The other major unintended consequence is the exposure of other trees to wind where they were once protected by the perimeter tree(s) that is no longer there. In any group of trees (regardless of the number), the perimiter trees get the bulk of the light all along its height and are therefore strong and stout, with many limbs and leaves along the bulk of the trunk. These perimeter trees protect any interior trees from wind, acting as a significant wind break, not just for houses but for the other trees. The interior trees compete for light and send up tall, thin, and largely limb-less trunks; with a canopy of leaves at the top instead of limbs and leaves along the trunk. Removal of the perimeter trees exposes the thinner-trunk, top-heavy interior trees to wind, creating a much higher risk for toppling in moderate or even light storms.

When we moved into our house the backyard was so shaded that I had doubt that I would be able to grow even a few herbs for cooking, veggies and fruit trees that taste nothing if bought in supermarkets. Growing roses were out of the question. As it happened, we moved in four days before hurricane Fran hit this town. By the time Fran moved forward we had zero shade in the backyard and the woods behind our property were decimated. Consequently we started landscaping by ordering a few fruit trees the very same fall. Two apricot trees grew into beautiful shade trees but gave us no apricots. The plum trees are not big but give us a shady spot to sit under the canopy if we have time to rest in the garden. They also give us tasty fruit if we can harvest before the birds eat them all. Two burgundy ornamental plum tree serves as background for the largest rose bed and I think they are an asset and not a hindrance. Beside a few small fruit trees like Japanese persimmons in the front yard we also have a Vitex (chase tree) that produces pale blue flowers all summer and does not grow that big. On the north side a gorgeous Pineapple Guava tree produces the most exquisite flowers in late spring and the tree is a beauty in itself.

All in all, I love my trees and I don't think my yard would be nice and restful without a few trees. I think they are just as important than perennials to complement the roses.

I still have plenty of sun for the roses to grow - except in one area.

But I agree that huge oak trees and sycamores are not in place in a small cookie cutter yard of subdivisions. I love sycamores in the street in the downtown area though.

One can trim the trees to arboriculture standards and let in the sun so that you can have the trees and your roses at the same time. Here is a good link:

http://www.treesaregood.org/

curlydoc, thanks for the info. I'll have to make a suggestion to my next door neighbor with the oaks. I have noticed that a few people have had their oaks thinned out (in a pretty way) so that if we get a huricaine, the wind will flow through them better, lessening the chance of it coming down. However, some of the oaks here develop hollow trunks. Not a good thing in Florida.

This is not one of those cookie cutter subdivisions, as each home is custom built and styled, and we all have a common interest, which happens to be flying. Some people live in horse communities down here, and some in golf communities. I guess there are trade-offs, no matter where you live. My neighbors are all really nice people, and I love trees. It's just that some of the trees that were allowed in here are inappropriate for the setting we are in. They belong where someone has the land to grow them. A tree specialist down here once told me these oaks should be at a minimum 100 feet from a home, because the roots have the potential to destroy the foundations.

That said, I miss having acres of land with a woods not too far from the house. It is peaceful to have that much nature surrounding you, even if the crows did soil my laundry hanging on clothes lines. They liked to eat all the wild berries and then fly over when they knew I had white sheets on the line. Sigh.

Sandy

Molineux:

Can you have a word with my neighbor? About the tree planting thing? In the six years we have lived next door to one another she has NEVER trimmed her trees. Nor does she mow her lawn, weed, etc., but you get the idea.

Every year my husband and I trim as much as is reasonable off the trees that are now pushing down the fence separating our properties. In light of their location at least two should be cut down. Cherry trees should not be planted one foot away from a fence I've learned.

On a less whiny note the birds just love those trees for shelter and food. They are awfully pretty. So for now we continue pruning.

Kate

Molineux your post reminded me of why I originally posted this too. It makes me want to go on a rant. Before we moved over here last year, to the "burbs" more or less, we lived in a Historic District. The homes were 100+ years old and very very closely settled. On one side we had about 2 feet between houses and maybe 10 feet on the other side.

Our next door neighbors had an enormous river birch in the front yard and some enormous type of tree in the backyard. We spent all Spring and Fall cleaning up the leaves from their trees, whirlybirds, those twiny things that fall from trees, etc.

Wouldn't it stand to reason that if you live 10 feet from next door that you would plant a small fruit tree of some sort and not a 30 foot monster? It was ridiculous. Thankfully we moved before I took a rake to their heads.

Unfortunately there are a large number of people who just don't care about anyone else but themselves.

On the other hand, as is the case with my neighbors, I don't think they thought their trees would get like this. My next door neighbor said they were going to get the oaks trimmed, without my saying anything. That was my cue to suggest a tree specialist that knows how to open up the canopy of the oaks so they are less likely to fall down in a hurricaine. I also said it would give my roses some extra light. They love my roses, so she was very understanding.

I'm going to have my husband talk to the one with the Sycamores. They try very, very hard to keep them cleaned up, but they still can't get all the mess in my gutters, roses, etc. I heard through the grapevine the husband would like to remove them. His wife thinks they are beautiful. Yuckkk!!!!! They are about the only tree that I think is ugly. Maybe if my husband has a friendly talk with her husband, maybe we'll get somewhere.

Sandy

And to think, Patrick, there was once a time when I followed your orders to a letter.

I planted 3 Douglas Firs along my border last weekend and will pant more tomorrow.

Why, you ask? Because my #@$^*@#*! neighbor chopped down the wooded area behind my house. Now my view is an open field with erosion. He told me his wife wanted it to be more orderly...

Community Service? Not likely. I plan to put that chain saw where the sun don't shine. And yes, it will be running!

Trees are more pleasing than roses.

There, I said it. And I am not sorry.

Give ``em'' heck,Harry.
Does sorta lose something but I wouldn't want to push my luck.
Trees-TOWERING Trees-thats what we need.

HARRY! And here I thought you were such a GENTLE soul!
I got your back, tho.
Anything in defense of trees. :-)

Jeri

(Who wants to know what is "orderly" about an eroding field.)

Trees are completely useless , they create too much shade for our dear roses... get smaller plastic ones instead. They don´t demand much watering. I love my American Plastic Christmas tree. Nature could not have produced one that looked half as good. And I just spray the pine scent on. I wonder if they spray the plastic flowers on Wisteria Lane in desperate Housewives with Wisteria scent?

Gee Cup,
I thought your neighbors to the South were kind enough to remove most of your trees,a few years back.Sorry they are still a problem.Maybe Finlandia above the AC.would be ideal for your roses?

I'm with Harry! Roses have their place, but trees are so much more in so many ways.

Ah they did a sloppy job ... And they have way too many trees in Finland, even above the AC. It is also way too cold to grow roses there any way. But the salmon fishing is great!!!!

Interesting thread.

Ya know, I like my roses, but they're just ornaments.

Trees are Life Itself.

Why have trees? why have air? or food? or soil? Because we need them. For physical and psychological well being.

Trees keep us humble. I mean TREES. Towering 60-200ft tall trees. Yes, especially in those cookie cutter postage stamp subdivisions!!!!! even more critical there. In any place where trees grow naturally, the biggest thing around should be trees, not buildings. Prairies and deserts are the exceptions as the environment there does not naturally support trees from lack of water.

Trees remind us that we are not the biggest or most important thing around. Trees remind us that we can't always have our way. Trees remind us that there was a past before us, and there will be a future after us. Trees remind us to look UP.

Why have trees? because they came before us. A little sunny space around the house is good, but trees are necessary too.

I am a proud Tree Hugging Dirt Worshiper. Some people find their god in a man-made building. Mine is all around, in his own creation. In roses, and especially in trees and all the other life forms that trees support.

Why have trees? As I contemplated all sorts of evil revenge at 4 a.m. this morning after listening to the CONTINUOUS NON-STOP ALL NIGHT AND ALL SUMMER LONG BARKING of the dog who resides across the creek through the woods,
the only things that kept me from wading across said creek were 1)all the poison ivy hanging on all the said trees; and 2) massive amount of thorny black locust hedge trees. I should clarify....revenge against people for being too lazy and stupid to put dog inside at night, and not revenge against dog. I guess trees are a good thing for keeping me out of jail, but I can always plead sleep-deprived. Seriously. People can be so inconsiderate.

trees - isn't that what hybrid wichurianas (SP?) are for?

All tree-huggers rejoice!

There were too many BIG red Maples (6 of them) in my front yard and narrow west yard. Could barely grow grass there and they were massing for an attack on my roof and gutters. The easy solution would have been to take a couple of the Maples out completely.

Instead, I found a tree-loving guy who just spent the morning raising up high the branch levels and drastically thinning out the really thick (and redundant) growth--nice clean cuts back to the main trunk.

It's amazing. You can actually see my old-fashioned house now with its 5-color trim, light and air can move through those spaces--so light, bright, and airy--and I may be able to grow some half-way decent grass now.

Still can't plant roses out there, but I'm feeling considerably less smothered by Maple trees now. Got enough roses in my sunny backyard to keep me more than busy anyway.

Kate