I love Elisabeth's China, White Pearl In Red Dragon's Mouth, and PARTICULARLY Bengal Fire. I know they can get upwards of 3.5 ft, but over time, I think they can get bigger than that.

Bengal Fire, I guess, is probably 'Miss Lowe's Variety' (Rosa indica var. 'Miss Lowe' Hort.) It is particularly fine here.

Pink Chinas -- like Old Blush and her kinfolk -- all mildew here for me, so I no longer grow them.

Gloire des Rosomanes, since it's spotless, fragrant, and blooms all year in my area, where most chinas are chronically sick. It also has roots good enough to have made it a popular understock in California, and roses grafted onto it were reported to need about 1/3 less water than usual, because the taproot went so deep. (I totally believe that, mine never looks dry, even in this drought.)

If left unpruned, it will flop across a fairly wide area, but if maintained, grows into a tree kind of like Albas do.

I never think of Ragged Robin (Gloire des Rosomanes) as a China, exactly -- because it's not typical -- but I sure can't disagree with the recommendation.

I have often thought that one could make a hedge of alternating Ragged Robin and Grandmother's Hat, because the habits and foliage are similar, and the colors are congenial.

It's a GREAT rose, and tough as nails.

Many sources insist that Le Vesuve is a china. If it is, it is definitely my favorite china.

Reds - well I have two bushes of one that is either Cramoisi Superior, or Louis Philipe. I can't tell. However, whichever it is it is great - blooms most of the year, gets hardly any care, & no disease. In one place I have a bush which is interwoven with Safrano - the growth habits are similar, both are medium sized (3-4 ft high and wide), not huge, and they look fantastic together.

Jackie

I love ALL my Chinas. I have Miss Lowe's Variety (6'x6' currently, particularly good foliage), Comtesse du Cayla (8' tall x 10'+ wide, great bloomer, got big quickly), Archduke Charles (still very young, but good foliage and exquisite blooms), Cramoisi Superieur (4'x4', expect it to get bigger), look-alikes Ferndale Red China and Korbel Canyon Red China (both too young to get a good idea of size, but I do know that Ferndale is not going to be "short" unless you consider 5' "short", both with clean foliage), and a found Old Blush type (5' x 4', never without a flower).

Edit to add Purpurea (aka Winecup) which is described as a China though not looking particularly like one, leaf/bush-wise, so I forgot to include it. Mine got to 6' x 5' this year, I expect it to grow bigger, and this in a less-than-optimum spot. This one wins the "best foliage" prize over any other rose on the lot. Thick, glossy, gorgeous leaves without a single blemish, brown edge, anything, including this year when the leaves on EVERYTHING looked pretty bad. The flowers really are velvet purple red and come fairly regularly in flushes.

I also have a beloved mystery climbing China with little pink flowers that is almost never out of bloom (15' x 10').

Chinas I have seen, admired, and hope to find a place for some day are Hermosa and White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth. I am also going to grow Mutabilis again, somewhere.

I can't think of a bad one, Kippy!

This post was edited by catspa on Sun, Nov 2, 14 at 19:38

If Le Vesuve and Cels Multiflora are Chinas (and the latter really looks like one) they, along with Mutabilis, would be my favorites. Old Blush would be very nice if it didn't mildew constantly, but that is a fact of life where I live. The red Chinas don't wow me, although I'm sure they're wonderful roses, because I just don't care for red roses. I haven't tried Hermosa, although I keep telling myself I should, but the pictures I've seen of it portray is as a "nice" rose, but not one with a wow factor. I'd like to be convinced by someone that I need this rose because it seems to have so many virtues.

Ingrid

So far, the only China I have that's old enough to bloom is 'White Pearl in Red Dragon's Moth'... I grew it from a cutting I took this summer, and I'm a little in love with the foliage and the blooms. I would not say "strongly fragrant", but the fragrance is delightful.

Having said that, I can't think of any Chinas that I dislike; I have a few that are even younger than my young 'WPIRDM', and am looking forward to seeing them mature and bloom...

Good luck choosing,
Virginia

Virginia -- Some years ago, we had a freeze here that was bad enough to kill some plumerias and burn the other tender plants badly. WPIRDM? That rose bloomed triumphantly right through all the bad weather, and never missed a beat.

It does get raggedy in heat/drought, but it is glorious in winter.

Jeri

Archduke Charles; a "must have" rose.

I agree about Archduke Charles.

In our danker periods, though, some of his blooms don't open well. But I have "Orange Smith" -- probably a slight sport of A.C., with fewer petals (collected on the grave of Civil War veteran, Orange Smith). That one is actually better in MY conditions.

Also forgot that Mr. Bluebird is a China, and a great one at that, until just now responding to your "Ralph Moore" thread over in "Roses", Kippy. Against all odds, it does seem inclined to actually stay a relatively modest size here (maybe under 3' -- I'm so excited). It is also a great color and a good bloomer with clean foliage.

I too forgot about Mr. Bluebird, since it's not sold as a China, and at one time had four. It's wonderful when it's healthy, but three of mine contracted blackspot and never lost it in spite of being cut back and given a chance to clean up their act several times. I suspect the drought might have had something to do with that. The fourth one, on the other side of the house and in a hot position, stayed clean but hasn't bloomed much. I love the color and overall appearance of this rose and only wish it loved my garden more.

Ingrid

Thank you all for the input.

I have Archduke Charles in the area but he is staying short and it seems his leaves are fast to something. Or some hen

I would like to buy a couple of Chinas from Burling WPIRDM is on her list along with a couple others. Good to know they will be taller than AC

From Jeri's comment on pink Chinas, how would LA Vesuve and Mr Bluebird do here? This is the hottest part of the garde. But gets little morning sun being on a west facing slope that faces a pass (pretty constant afternoon breeze). It will hopefully be cooler as the fruit trees grow but still warm.

Thanks

I only had them for one season, so they were both still quite small, but Mutabilis and Archduke Charles were so lovely and bloomed like crazy for me.

Jeri, thanks for the heads-up on WPIRDM. (The attached photo is of the parent plant from which I got my cutting.)

WPIRDM does seem happy with our cooler temps and so does 'Louis Phillippe' who is unfurling new leaves and looking like he's ready to get growing. I was glad to hear from Kim that 'LP' is so fragrant.

Speaking of cooler temps, we actually had a freeze warning last night. In November? I don't think it got much colder than 40, and today was cool, but not cold. But now I've had a 'freeze drill' and so have a better idea of what pots to stash on the back porch overnight, and where to find them in the yard. And back to warm and sunny tomorrow...

Virginia

Cramoisi Superieur, Archduke Charles, Ducher are three of my favorites. Cramoisi gets tall and wide. Ducher is almost 5 ft. and 4 ft wide. Archduke Charles is about 3 ft tall and not very wide.

Sammy

Archduke Charles, Pink Pet and The Green Rose are fantastic rose's in my garden. Archduke Charles and The Green Rose are about 5' tall and 2 1/2' wide. Pink Pet is 3'x3'. All 3 came through last winter without a scratch.

Only just planted Irene Watts. Her blooms are a lovely shade of pink. She seems pretty healthy. Supposedly grows to 2', but I daresay she'll double that. I also got Jean Bach Sisley as a gift (from the nursery) this spring. The first flush of blooms were a glorious fresh pink, but the next flush were a bit raggedy. Comtesse du Cayla I think is a stunner, but the blooms do fry on hot and not-so-hot days. Out of the afternoon sun would be best for her if you get her, I think. I ordered Archduke Charles, but got a poor quality plant, and then one of the dogs broke off it's only stem....I also ordered Le Vesuve, but I'm not sure that is what I've been sent as the blooms are a pale, fleshy pink. Lovely thing though.
And then of course, there's Mutabilis.........

I'm really liking Sophies Perpetual. Thornless, fragrant, and her blooms are somehow cute and exciting at the same time. I'm going to espalier her along a trellis. She's still only a baby but I like her.

I never met a China I didn't like. While we're at it, let's not forget 'Single Pink' and--I'm not quite sure what it's called, it's like a miniature 'Old Blush'--'Roulettii'? 'Pompon de Paris'? 'Single Pink' may itself be a single sport of 'Old Blush'. So, not for those in whose gardens pink Chinas mildew badly, but fine varieties.
Oh, and while I'm at it, the rose I know as 'Odorata' is often classed as a China, and it's delightful as well: fragrant and sturdy.
Melissa

I was just going to say what Melissa said. I can count on Chinas in my garden. I'd like to plant more.

Melissa, I'd almost bet money that "Single Pink China" is a sport from "Old Blush." I suspect that my semi-double "China From Adina" is another sport of OB. (See below)

(And yes, for ME, pink China's mildew. Darnit.)

But other than that, I agree with Melissa and Mendocino. Chinas, for us mild-climate folks, are DEPENDABLE.

See also my newer post on "Ferndale Red China."

Jeri

Kippy, for me a west-facing, windy slope would be the kiss of death for almost any rose, but your solar radiation may not be as harsh as here. Le Vesuve is a tough rose but in my conditions it does need regular and frequent watering to bloom well.

Ingrid

'Le Vesuve,' here, mildewed to astronomical levels.

HOWEVER, it is clean as a whistle in Joyce Demits' Ft. Bragg garden.

The main difference is that her conditions are acidic.
Mine are horribly alkaline.

Jeri

The flowers can be an issue where the heat and sun are intense, but Purpurea's foliage is outstanding and gorgeous. It roots easily and grows perfectly own root. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Purpurea

Its a good thing I have a long area for chinas since so many of the do well

I am trying a different mix for rooting and will test with Archduke Charles and see how well it does.

Any thoughts on Slater's Crimson China?

Or Xiang Fen Lian?

Burling has those in stock with WPIRDM.

Thanks

Kippy do you grow Mutabilis? I think it's one of the perfect roses for So. CA. I have Hermosa and it mixes in beautifully with other old fashioned pinks and always has blooms.

Kitty I do have mutabilis and it is very pretty. I have mine in a different area but will probably add a second in the China/chicken zone. I love the color of the plant too

Hermosa also has the distinction of being a survivor.

It is one of a handful of cultivars that has survived in old cemeteries and deserted gardens in many places.

Jeri

'Mutabilis'. Easy, productive classic with more or less unique visual attributes - the kind of rose that people who don't grow roses grow. Usually seen as a bush, will climb if given a wall. Down there might grow pretty tall, wall or not.

The most impressive Mutabilis I've ever seen (and I ADORE this rose!) was the one used in San Jose to cover the end of a two story apartment building. The space it filled was easily 20' X 20', grown as a climber. It was spectacular! Kim

Kim. I would love to see that building!

It belonged to "nameless'" mother. I have no idea if it's even still there, but he was quite proud of it and made it a point to show it off. That was easily twenty-five years ago. There was also a bed of some of the most vigorous, most heavily virused Double Delight in front of it, I'd ever seen. Kim

..just wanted to add to this thread rather than start another... as I note that my favourite little China has got a mention here....
...I know it as 'Bengal Crimson' but in recent years I've become aware that it has several other names.... I was under the impression that 'Miss Lowe's' was distinct again in being very dwarf..i.e. 2 foot here...
..my plant was a cutting from a group of 3 that I bought originally and grew in my last garden, and they were 4 foot tall and I had them for some years.... they never got taller than that, and not being used to China's, I was amazed one winter that they were in full bloom in January, masses of pink flowers in -5 deg Celsius and covered in snow.... yet didn't bat an eyelid... they then had a break and started re blooming in May when they turned red/crimson colour for the rest of summer...

...I took just one small cutting about 6 inches, transported it in the car wrapped in a little wet tissue and drove some 150 miles in 3 hours to plant it in some quiet corner of my new garden, and there it rooted one winter...

..below here is my little cutting now developed after about 3 years into a 2 foot 6 inches plant and already wanting to grow away.... so it should reach at least 4 foot again here... I'm hoping for a little more in this better soil...
...it doesn't look much now but this rose will be with me until I drop....

If Gruss an Teplitz (Virginia R. Coxe) counts as a China, it is my favourite, as well as my only China. There are few to choose in Sweden. It's prone to blackspot but still always the last rose of summer for me and flowers till November some years.

Chinas are the backbone of my garden, especially in the summer when the Chili-thrips arrive.... I don't spray, and the Chinas bloom away with no sign of thrip damage, or black-spot, they are bullet-proof.... Louis Philippe, Ducher, Spice, Slater's Crimson (Belfield), Cramoisi, several more I can't bring up the names... as for other roses that are bullet-proof, Mrs. BR Cant, Rock Peach, Delizzey, Champney's Pink, lots of the old-timers are reliable standbys, but the China roses are outstanding, with Bermudas right up there....I've gotten rid of any that cause problems....sally

"I've gotten rid of any that cause problems....sally"

*** Just about the best advice in the world. :-)

5 faves from the China rose class
1. Gloire des Rosomanes' I love those wide red blooms with cheerfulness inducing white streaks, plus that spicy scent! yum...
I found a couple blush pink sports on a cane this week. I noticed a couple of white buds on a cane on G. des R. a few days ago and I thought "That's odd" and today one of the buds opened partially and it is a pale blush pink. I was pleased to see that Jeri posted photos of pink sports on a Gloire des Rosomanes on helpmefind.com Jeri, were you ever able to get a stable pink clone from G. des R.?
My sports are paler than the photos, but it could be because its still winter and the buds are newly opening and China roses tend to darken when fully opened. I'll check on it through the next few days to see if the blooms stay blush or darkens.

2. another vote for Le Vesuve, though I think of it as more Tea than China, having the shapely blooms of the first class.
   3. - a red China at the Berkeley Botanical Garden, I think it was named Rosa chinenis ...semperflorens? its a beauty of a red China, and I've often hoped a hip with fertile seeds from it would fall into my open hands. I do enjoy visiting it, and perhaps my appreciation is all the greater for not owning it.
   4. Cramoisi Superieur' I love its' cherry blossom scent.
   5. Archduke Charles
   I wish there were more China roses to choose from their simple blossoms have an artless beauty unique to their class.
   I do love 'Mutabilis' when I see it in others gardens, its just I don't want to give that much room to the plant as it easily grows to be 8'x8' here, and I'd rather have another Tea. If only Mutabilis were about half that size.
   Lux.

If Mutabilis is too large, how abt. Bermuda Kathleen? I love mine, she never stops blooming and is also bullet-proof.....and smaller than M.......LOL, sally