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newhomeowner_2009

Preparing for winter

16 years ago

So we bought three rose bushes (climbers) for our summer house in the Catskills. They came down with black spot, which was a pain, but they've survived.

So now I need to plan for winter, and I understand from a neighbor that what I need to do is to pile about ten inches of earth (after clearing away dead leaves) to protect the roots. I've also read that letting the canes lie on the ground is a good idea.

My questions are these: A) When do I need to do this? and B)Can I do this before it is necessary?

The reason I ask is that I'm supposed to have surgery in early November. For about a month I'll be unable to engage in the requisite physical activity. So I either do this preparation sometime this month or it may be too late. Any thoughts on my dilemma? Thanks.

Comments (23)

  • 16 years ago

    The problem with any winter protection in the northeast is that it holds moisture, and causes fungal problems. So generally, the only thing you want to cover canes with is snow. Even if covering the lower canes did help survival, it's not particularly useful with a climber which has to be cane hardy to climb. This is where the whole idea of growing climbers as shrubs comes from.

    Personally, I'd skip any form of winter protection this year and see what that gets you. If we have a mild winter like this past one, any remotely hardy rose should be fine. If we have a normal winter, and the rose gets a lot of dieback, understand that it will normally get a lot of dieback. Winter protection doesn't do much to change that, and replacing with hardy varieties is usually the thing to do.

  • 16 years ago

    Yeah, and I've a fungal problem in the past too (black spot). That was, and is, a major pain. I hope it will be gone next year but I keep reading that it probably will return no matter what I do.

  • 16 years ago

    Yes, roses in the east tend to get blackspot. We either spray, or choose disease resistant roses that come with local recommendations.

  • 16 years ago

    I have a few climbers with relatively disease free resistance, a couple of which are cane hardy or almost so. Roses do not develope blackspot resistance. They either are or aren't. I have a few that are completely blackspot free right now, without spraying.
    I have some 30 climbers and don't protect any of them. All are hardy to some extent meaning they may die back but will quickly grow back each year.
    Try as I might in past years any attempts to keep climbers from getting dieback each winter failed, until I began buying climbers suited for my zone 5a.
    I buried them, covered the canes with a mound of soil, sawdust, mulch, leaves or compost, and still got dieback or canker or both. Canker meant I had to remove the canker and everything above it to save the remainder of the cane. This most often resulted in losing as much had I simply just did nothing. Tender roses simply died or got so weak after a couple of years, they eventually died. Many had to be pruned so far back each spring, new growth often resulted in a tall shrub rather than a climber.
    If your roses are grafted tender varieties, they may not survive anyway. In cold winter climates, the graft should be buried 4-6 inches deep when planting. Unfortunately, nurseries and garden centers in cold zones sell roses with little regard if they're suited for the area.
    Relax and leave them alone until you recover enough to pile soil or oak leaves high on the base of the bush after the ground freezes. This may not occur until well after your recuperation month.
    The purpose of winter protection is to prevent the freeze/thaw cycle, not keep the ground from freezing.
    What varieties do you have? Knowing that we can tell you if they're hardy or not. If not we can advise replacements and reliable sources for them.

  • 16 years ago

    As Karl said, the variety of climber is very important regarding further advice here. Another thing that would be helpful is knowing where they are planted; for example, are they out in the middle of your yard, or close to your house? My roses in the front of my house require little, if any, protection because they are shielded on 3 sides from brutal winter winds.

    We'd rather see you offer them the right type of protection than take a chance and lose your pretties. :)
    ---Laura

  • 16 years ago

    Remember, these are my neighbors. You pile all that junk on top of roses here, and the January thaws come through and you end up with a sodden mess. We are a lot wetter during the winter than the midwest, and don't tend to stay consistently frozen.

    Freeze-thaw is a fact of life here. (actually, it's a bigger fact of road maintenance) Trying to stop it is like trying to stop the rain.

  • 16 years ago

    Hmmm... well, thanks for the advice. Yes, in the Catskills we do have a January thaw, though where we are in the mountains it wasn't much of a thaw as I recall (this is a summer home, and we were there sporadically during the winter). We got less snow than usual, that's for sure.

    The roses are right up against the house, where there is a sort of built-in trellis that I've been tying 'em to. However, it is on a hill, facing down the hill, so I don't think there's much protection.

    Afraid I don't recall the variety of roses I bought, and since I'm not at the house at the moment I don't have access to the labels that came with the bushes. As for the black spot, I must say that I wasn't thrilled that the garden store sold those bushes to us, as they surely must have known they had black spot. At the time I bought the bushes I didn't even know there was such a thing.

  • 16 years ago

    They may not have had blackspot at the time you bought them. Understand, the blackspot spores are in the air. They settle on leaves and germinate under the right conditions. If this occurs on a rose leaf, you'll get blackspot. To prevent, you must spray a fungicide before the blackspot occurs.
    Or, buy disease resistant varieties. To do that, you have to do your homework to find out which ones are resistant. There are no disease free roses but some are almost so. Garden stores are in the business of selling roses. Unfortunately the roses most people like are the tender hybrid teas that seldom are disease resistant. The average rose buyer, buys their roses based on how they like the bloom form or color and/or fragrance at the time. They seldom read the tag and many never know the variety they have.
    One needs to do some homework prior to rose shopping. Get a book on roses or search on line and be prepared before you go to the garden center.
    Don't feel bad, most of us began this way and read the books after the fact. That's just the way people are!

  • 16 years ago

    When I first started growing roses, I chose our first rose bush because the blooms were red and I liked the name. lol
    So, I was one of those people that read rose books/ rose forums after the fact, as Karl mentions.

    "Don't feel bad, most of us began this way and read the books after the fact. That's just the way people are!"

  • 16 years ago

    Yes, I just liked the way the roses looked. I don't even know offhand what varieties I purchased, as I said.

    But they did have black spot when I bought them. I noticed the black spots pretty much immediately, and only then looked them up.

    So the sense I get is that it's not necessary to pile on dirt, or am I leaping to conclusions?

  • 16 years ago

    You are leaping to conclusions!
    Winter protection is not related to blackspot carry over unless you cover diseased leaves. Blackspot may or may not occur depending mostly on weather conditions. Winter protection depends on how hardy your roses are and whether or not your roses are own root or grafted. Unless planted below the soil surface the graft knob should be covered along with the bottom few inches of cane.
    Like I said, let the soil freeze first, then apply the winter protetion.
    If your surgery is in the first part of November and you'll have to recuperate for 30 days, the soil probably will still not be frozen unless we have a very early hard freeze. Regardless, you'll have time to get them covered before the really bitter cold that comes later. An early snow won't be a problem as snow is a great insulator.

  • 16 years ago

    OK, thanks. I hate to admit it, but I'm not sure I know what a graft knob is. I see that it is defined as the "bud union" from which all canes originate. I imagine (and I'm not at the house now so I'm guessing) that mine would be just above ground.

  • 16 years ago

    Yes, the bud union is the same as a graft knob. Many don't recognize the term "bud union", but do know what the graft knob is. If above or at ground level, make sure they get covered for winter.

  • 16 years ago

    Hello, I'm in the same boat as the original poster. This year, I caught the rose bug and ended up buying so many rose plants. We ended up with the following climbers: Aloha, America, Blaze, Joseph's coat, Collette, Polka, Fourth of July, Lunar Mist and New Dawn. Unless I'm wrong these climbers are hardy varieties, right? What I would like to know is when do I stop watering them? Also, is now the time to stop deadheading? As for winterizing, I was just going to mound the bud union with either soil or mulch and try to secure the canes. I think thatâÂÂs all thatâÂÂs needed, correct? Thank you all ��" This is a great forum.

  • 16 years ago

    Forgot my zone. I am in NJ, 6B

  • 16 years ago

    My experience with winter protection is that it is a complete waste of time. i've tried mounding with leaves. I hadn't tried mounding with dirt, it seems like too much trouble. Either a rose is winter hardy and will spring back or it will be covered in canker by May. There's tons of winter hardy roses out there. Large shrubs/climbers that are both winter hardy and ok with BS (i spray 1/month and most of the leaves are green) for me are:

    Madame de Sombreuil
    Traviata
    James Galway most years it gets no BS
    Field of the Woods
    Abe Darby a little more BS than the others.
    Heritage - some years it gets no BS
    Crocus Rose - a little more BS than the others.

  • 16 years ago

    mindoro, for your next batch of roses, bury the graft union 3" below ground. Yes, even here in NJ, zone 6b (I'm in Monmouth county). I wouldn't mound anything over the graft, read Mad Gallica's post on canker. Then, read it again. It would be worse here. I would secure the canes, especially if your garden is windy.

  • 16 years ago

    In 7a/6b, I wouldn't bother with winter protection.
    Your average winter low for 6b is 0 to minus 5. 7a is 0 to +5. All except really tender varieties will be affected by those temps. Your biggest problem will be ice or heavy snow breaking the canes. That can be avoided by tying them together after cutting them back some.

  • 16 years ago

    You guys rock. This is just the info I needed to read about.

    Can I stop deadheading and watering now?

    Thank you again.

  • 16 years ago

    Stop deadheading in mid September, or now!
    Water up until you can't water anymore. Your roses need to go into winter fully hydrated. All early spring growth comes from food and moisture stored in the canes.
    If your bush goes into winter water starved, your early spring leaf out will suffer.
    This leaf out primes the pump that causes feeder roots to grow, supplying moisture to the new canes and leaves.

  • 16 years ago

    We've had about 5 inches of rain so far in October, and I'd expect New Jersey has had even more. A big problem with a lot of roses here is that the tea blood means they respond much better to drought dormancy than cold dormancy. So all that water just makes them want to grow pretty much no matter how cold it is.

    Rain is also forecast for Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. Just put the hoses away.

  • 16 years ago

    Ditto Mad Gallica. We've had a lot of rain, unless it goes into pure drought conditions, you won't need to water for awhile.

  • 16 years ago

    We've had none for over 2 weeks. It's supposed to come tomorrow. Was so bad that we had a Red Flag warning here on Wednesday. I don't think I've seen a fire hazard in Central Illinois since I was a teenager. And THAT is a long time ago. I exhausted all 4 rain barrels & had to resort to the hose.