Oh, some have poor form and grow too huge for the lots they were mass planted in fifty years ago. Death by silver maple lol.

Some are dirt common clones.

Most are difficult to garden under.

Me, I love maples but try to be careful about not overdoing anything of one genus or whatever. Can't have too many Acers or else when the Chinese Tourquoise Acer Borer makes it my way my yard would be decimated.

Does it look like this?

{{gwi:455254}}

Just to avoid widespread panic, there is no such thing as the Chinese Tourquoise (sic) Acer Borer........as far as we know :-)) This is just a photo of a beetle native to New Guinea.

I like most maples but I like the Asian species best. A lot of variability in foliage shape and color, often other distinctive characteristics (e.g., bark features) and usually a very manageable scale when mature. Also quite easy to plant under.

I love maples, but would select the varieties with care and plant them in appropriate locations.

I understand the monoculture concern. As I've said before, the developer who subdivided the land my parents lived in planted lots of black pine...a local epidemic of beetles came through and killed all of them. Ironically, what replaced them was some maples and Eastern Red Cedar that sprung up along a fence...

The most likely epidemic to threaten maples is the Asian Longhorn Beetle.

I had a neighbor who had a maple tree (I think), and the seeds from it clogged up my gutters on a regular basis.

I do like them but they tend to be more prolific than any other trees here and this creates an imbalance. For example, there are only a few oak trees and others since maples tend to germinate much faster because of all those "helicopters" they produce. Thousands of them. The acorns feed the birds and small wildlife in the dead of winter and I'd prefer them for that reason plus the color of oak leaves in the Fall...

The most likely epidemic to threaten maples is the Asian Longhorn Beetle.

Another good reason to consider the Asian species......they tend to be rather resistant to this pest.

Although Japanese maples etc. can be quite rooty and shady beneath also if "I hate maples" were modified to "I hate large-growing species of maples" that would be more specific to the particular complaints that have been made. The main problem with big-leaf, Norway, silver (apart from the breakage) and sugar maples is that they get big, thereby magnifying their impacts on other plantings around them.

Although it's true you can't grow anything under a Norway maple of any significant size and the species is a terrible weed in North America, regardless.

"Another good reason to consider the Asian species......they tend to be rather resistant to this pest."
Is there any really hardy, large asian maples? Like a substitute for sugar maple, hardy to zone 3-4? There should be, but all you see is those small garden species.

Hardy - yes; large - no. Acer pseudosieboldianum, Korean maple, is hardy to at least zone 4 but not likely to exceed 25'. Acer miyabei should be equally hardy and a bit larger.....perhaps as much as 40'. That might be the best replacement choice for Norway or silver maples in colder areas.

It should be considered that the larger growing the tree, the more likely the roots are to be an issue.........making underplanting more problematic.

OK, ken_adrian has repeatedly let slip he hates maples

==>>> its all about me.. isnt it... lol..

i have a collection of 1650 hosta.. and many other shade plants ...

it is near impossible to grow hosta under maple....

i hate.. hate.. hate.. them ... including a few other trees that are as aggressive with their surface type roots ...

they are fine trees.. in other peoples yards ...

saying i 'let it slip' .. is a bit of an understatement.. lol ... its no real secret.. lol ...

ken

I've never really seen the ability to plant underneath a tree as crucial...if nothing will grow underneath a tree, I figure that means no weeds...bonus. Roots near the surface are kinda pretty to me.

What are the most over-planted varieties? If "weed" maples spring up in coastal Massachusetts, what are they likely to be?

This post was edited by edlincoln on Fri, Oct 17, 14 at 17:02

>Is there any really hardy, large asian maples?The original 'Morton' maple is fairly big.

Here is a link that might be useful: Morton Miyabe Maple �

This post was edited by bboy on Fri, Oct 17, 14 at 17:00

edlincoln,
In case you read somewhere where someone "hates" maples or any other dislike of an entire genus you should do what I do, practice your scrolling technique. Pls don't let someone's limited palette effect your taste in plants.
Japanese Maples are incredible popular in the US as demonstrated by the number of posts about them on the trees forum. They are in scale with the modern residential landscape. We are already seeing posts showing the incredible fall colors of sugar and red maples. The Maple King, J.D. Vertrees wrote about Asian Maples: In addition to the two "bloom" periods or seasons of striking beauty coloration every year, these plants present such a wide range of size possibilities that there can be "a plant for every occasion"
Take a look at this Paperbark Maple from the Winterthur Garden in Delaware and decide for yourself who is right and who to dismiss.
{{gwi:455255}}

The title of this thread was somewhat "tongue in cheek".

The paperbark maples are kind of nice. How is there wind and salt tolerance?

I generally don't like the idea of planting European or Asian maples...while not a purist, I generally prefer to plant natives. I only plant exotics if they are really unique and provide something that I can't get from natives. Apart from the bright red foliage, I don't see most Asian or European maples as being quite unique enough to dissuade me from going native.

As far as shade gardens...I've been trying to get shade plants established underneath a Yew and a couple Norway Spruce. Planting underneath a red maple would be easy by comparison...

I love maples...well, except for the October Glory I planted 3 years ago, under the dappled shade of two large trees and still in late August/early Sept. the leaf edges singe and brown and no hint of October red, or even November. It's not been so glorious for me, yet.

I only plant exotics if they are really unique and provide something that I can't get from natives.

That's pretty much why anyone plants exotics. Native species only can lead to some very boring landscapes.

>Apart from the bright red foliage, I don't see most Asian or European maples as being quite unique enough to dissuade me from going nativePaperbark maple is about as unique as it gets. Most species of maple are native to Asia, therefore the Asian species offer the greatest number of different kinds to choose from. Including the hundreds of cultivars of Japanese maple that have become such a big deal commercially.

gardengal48: Lots of people plant exotics when there are perfectly good native substitutes. (Eg Japanese Black Pine, Norway Maple, Burning Bush) Many people plant exotics because they are what the local Home Depot happens to sell...and a lot of the time that decision is influenced by what is easy to propagate/mass produce.

In theory using the plants of the whole world to fill your pallet should give you more choices and lead to a diverse landscape. In practice, there are a handful of "exotics" that are used to death...and a lot of natives no one ever uses. (American Persimmon, American Beech, Sassafras, Pitch Pine, Black Gum, Beach Plum) The way most people garden, their landscape isn't more interesting or diverse then what can be achieved with natives.

bboy: Maybe I'm not a connoser, but *MOST* of the Asian maples aren't different enough to make me choose them over the native Red Maple or Sugar Maple. I will grant you the paperbark is kind of interesting. I really don't see the point of the Norway Maple...it's way too generic to temp me to plant an invasive, and we have much nicer maples in North America.

This post was edited by edlincoln on Fri, Oct 17, 14 at 19:23

Someone should start producing cultivars of acer circinatum so americans get a native alternative to all those acer palmatum cultivars

OldFixer, you were reading my mind.
{{gwi:335680}}

Yeah for Sam. A picture is worth a thousand trees.

>In practice, there are a handful of "exotics" that are used to death...and a lot of natives no one ever uses. (American Persimmon, American Beech, Sassafras, Pitch Pine, Black Gum, Beach Plum)3 or 4 of those get planted rather often.

>the paperbark is kind of interestingMany have more of a reaction than that and there is not much more interesting you are going to get with a maple tree.

>*MOST* of the Asian maples aren't different enoughThis is simply false, as there are a number of Asian maples belonging to completely different parts of the genus that are planted as ornamental subjects in western gardens, starting with all the Section Palmata species that are so valued, including A. palmatum and its many and highly varied cultivars.

This post was edited by bboy on Fri, Oct 17, 14 at 19:36

edlincoln, I have no idea of your location or the extent of your travels, but all I can surmise from your comments is that you must not have been exposed to the diversity of plant life we enjoy on the west coast. Sure, there is plenty of use of native plants - perhaps more often west coast natives (not all native plants do well equally across the country) - but that is combined with thousands of Asian species as well as countless thousands of other plants originating from all manner of diverse locations across the globe.

"there are a handful of "exotics" that are used to death"........is hardly applicable here. Most of the conifers, broadleaved evergreen shrubs, ornamental grasses and even a fair share of our most popular flowering shrubs and perennials used in gardens and landscapes across the country have their origins outside of North America. Not to mention most of the vegetables we grow as home gardeners.

I don't mean to denigrate the value of native plants but neither should one short change the diversity and gardening opportunites offered by non-native plants.

Huggorm, there's probably a couple dozen culitvars of Acer circinatum on the market, but the species doesn't have the diversity itself to produce the wide range of cultivars like A. palmatum does. But if you don't mind adding a little foreign blood, it can hybridize with A. palmatum or A. japonicum and that could no doubt produce the wider diversity of appearance of Acer palmatum.

>>>>Many have more of a reaction than that and there is not much more interesting you are going to get with a maple tree. Well, I *DID* only see a picture of it.

>>> all I can surmise from your comments is that you must not have been exposed to the diversity of plant life we enjoy on the west coast. Or I've been exposed to a lot of unimaginative gardeners? I'm sure if you put in a little effort you can find plenty of unimaginative gardeners in your area...

Acer capillipes from Asia grew to almost 40 ft. in my garden before I cut it down because it was too big for where it was planted. I have some seedlings in pots waiting for my decision as to where to plant them. It looks a lot like the Snake bark maples.
Here's some pictures from last Fall of my garden, mostly maples.
And a picture of a Acer circinatum, our vine Maple taken yesterday.
Mike
{{gwi:455256}}

And a seed grown Acer palmatum with very red seeds. Not all that uncommon, but a good feature that most don't consider. Rhododendrons are growing under it. Lem's Monarch.
{{gwi:455257}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Fall garden

Although not large growing Acer triflorum is hardy to zone 4 at least and the fall color is as good, and consistent, of any of the selected sugar maples.

Somebody say Acer triflorum?

Had to cut down my Three-Flower Maple - far too boring and one-dimensional...

And these lousy things don't even make good firewood...

hey sam.md ...

if you havent noticed.. i dont bother you with responding to your posts anymore...

so how about you give up the gratuitous attacks on me ... one would think life is to short to waste your time on such ....;

you have a good day.. regardless ...

ken

Or I've been exposed to a lot of unimaginative gardeners? I'm sure if you put in a little effort you can find plenty of unimaginative gardeners in your area...

yeah, there's lots! Which is a good thing, cuz many of them hire me -- I'm a landscape designer and consultant. I encourage them to broaden their horticultural horizons :-)

Did I actually start a fight with this post? As I said, it *WAS* intended as "tongue in cheek".

A certain fellow said he didn't like maples, and I wished to see if his problems with them were something other then the problems I was aware of, and if they were something that would apply to my locations. I also wanted to uncover which kinds of maples were weedy/invasive/drop limbs etc., as all trees sound great in the catalog of an online nursery. Decided to be a bit humorous about it.

bboy
>>>>3 or 4 of those get planted rather often.Out of curiosity, which ones?

I'm still confused on how I can't grow hostas under Silver, Red or Norway maples translates to I hate maples.

I see homes built in the 60s and 70s with a crap load of hostas under all three maple species mentioned above. These plant's root systems behave differently when it comes to different soils types, ie clay vs sand.

Acer is still and always will be the greatest deciduous genus due it great breadth of species which offer varying sizes, habits, fall colors, leaf texture, bark, adaptability and so on.

whaas
>>>>I'm still confused on how I can't grow hostas under Silver, Red or Norway maples translates to I hate maples. It doesn't...that's the joke.

And personally I'm not overly concerned with the ability to grow hostas under anything.

Out of curiosity, which type of soil lets you grow things underneath a maple?

I didn't care much for the brittle, damage-prone, short-lived red maples encroaching everywhere in the oak-hickory-pine forest in VA, but then I transplanted a bunch of native moose-wood maples where they graced the understory near the house w/emerald-green, textured leaves & green-white stems. I didn't hate all maples -- it's a pretty diverse family.

To edlincoln: Sorry, this is not about maples. I have been following your postings and plight about landscaping in the Cape and Island area of the east coast.
Here I have a bit of experience. It is not easy. It should be noted that the whalers returned to their New England homes with all types of foreign plants with the hope they would survive the rigors of salt air and wind. This type of landscaping and plant selection requires trial and error, locating the 'quiet spots' on a property during a raging nor'easter where healthy plant growth can be encouraged and planting young, low stock that can grow and adjust to the wind. The later is very important.

There are lots of tricks to baffle the wind. And some excellent gardening books dealing with your area situation.

Now that I am way off topic, an additional bit of learning for those owning seaside properties where almost nothing will grow despite following all the "rules". That area is covered with sections of unmarked Indian burial sites. It has been my experience, and of others, that very few introduced plants will grow in and around such sites. It occurs to me that this may be your problem and a bit of historical research might be helpful.

I never wanted a maple before, well, maybe a Japanese maple under an oak or 2, but Sugar maple is a nice Maple, I saw one which changed my mind about planting a maple in my yard. Not just fall color but it gets big enough to make lots of shade, and isn't weak wooded as Silver maple is. My neighbors Silver Maple throws branches, and they mysteriously are always on my side of the property line, so when I cut grass I have to heave them back on his property or run over them and risk ruining my blades or tractor.