I've got the windows for a greenhouse. I got them from a guy at the dump who was planning to pay to have them trashed. This year, I built a hoop house out of plastic and pvc pipe. It was 90 degrees in there today. Black dirt and nearly 60 outside and sunny.

I'm still giving this wintersowing thing a try. I've been very disappointed in direct sowing results. So I hope this helps me increase my plant yield. I didn't go too heavy on the seeds either. I don't want my containers to look like my lawn when it comes time to plant out.

And I'll still use the hoop house in the spring to get my annuals and veggies going early.

but you know you started out the way Trudi states in her FAQ's - and you made it your own. Which is the beauty of the process. I am not sure why you would feel you had to add a dig about it not being special - it is the theory that you embraced.

Considering where you live a green house is about the only way to go to get them up and out so you can enjoy them. Most of us do not have a greenhouse and this "process" fufill the need to be productive.

I enjoy doing it the way Mother Nature does with the added bonus of knowing that my seeds are not going to get lost or eaten in my containers. Winter sowing is very special to me. It provided me with over 200 plants last summer that I would not have been able to have otherwise.

It's funny how two different people can interpret a message differently. I don't know that is was a dig. I read "not so special" as to mean there's flexability in the process. We play around with what we learn, find a slightly different way of doing it, and if it works better for us, then do it that new way. Whichever way we wintersow, it sure is a pleasant way to pass the winter cold, excited about what's going to sprout in the spring.

I came across this group three years ago, and was very excited about the process. I tried it and it worked quite well. The one problem I did not like was watering all the little containers in spring.

Neither do I.

It's not too hard to set up a sprinkler on a timer and water all the containers at once during midday when the temps are highest.

WS is all about doing it your own way, however WSing inside is not the method--it's just indoor sowing and won't produce the same roots or hardiness of the seedlings. WS seedlings don't need hardening off.

Madtripper, for your reference the method is descibed by the USDA/NAL Thesaurus as follows:

winter sowing method

Definition

A propagation method used throughout the winter where temperate climate seeds are sown into protective vented containers and placed outdoors to foster a naturally timed, high percentage germination of climate tolerant seedlings.

Hope this helps,

T

Here is a link that might be useful: WS Method terminology from USDA thesaurus

Very concise and accurate definition for the WSing method that is promoted on this forum! And it is a great method indeed! However, I bet there are thousands if not millions of ways to "sow seeds in the winter" and that people have been doing it for millenia. I even sowed grass seed last February, on top of a little snow and before we were expecting more snow. Guess what? That grass germinated great come Spring.

The WSing method has A LOT going for it. I especially love the fact that it is so economical - both in terms of time and money. It uses the water, temperature, and light from Ma nature, which are FREE, can be done using recycled materials, which are also free. I can't imagine how many banks of lights I would need to grow so many seedlings, nor how much electricity would be required, and then you have to water, deal with damping off, or insect pests indoors, etc. Why cold stratify in the fridge? Mother nature will do it for you! And thanks to GW and many generous gardeners, you can obtain seeds for the price of postage.

WSing can be done if you live in an apartment w/balcony, small suburban lot, or 20 acres in the country. It results in greater numbers of seedlings because the seeds/seedlings are protected from critters and extreme weather. And as Tiffy said, it gives us gardening addicts enthusiasts something to do in the dead of winter!

My goal is to grow plants, and whichever way that works is great. The WSing method has been a tremendous enhancement to my gardening. Thanks to Trudi and everybody here on this forum for spreading the word!

Hmm... not that special? I respectfully beg to differ. Perhaps for someone with the advantages you have... a sunroom, it's not that special to you.

For me, what makes it special is that for the first time in my adult life, I can actually germinate a seed! For the first time, I can have a perennial garden that I can afford and be proud of! My neighbors slow down and look before they walk on! My home has curb appeal!

I also think it's special because I am now part of a "growing" community that offers me advice, encouragement and friendship.

Oh, perhaps it's not that special for you, but for me, it's a treasure, it's a gift of hope, beauty, and a spring-time full of gratitude. It's brought color, beauty and life in what used to be a patch of mud. It brought back a wonderment in God's amazing gifts to us, that can only be seen in nature.

Yeah... Winter Sowing is very special, indeed!

We can debate the better method like people do with politics. I prefer sowing inside but have done limited amount of WS. I like sowing inside because I can get a major jump on annual flowers but this is a hobby for me and something to do during the gloomy winter. It's refreshing for me when I come home from work and go into my basement I see green leaves that were once seeds.

We can "debate the better method like people do with politics", but I fail to see how any form of indoor sowing can be called Wintersowing.

The definition of wintersowing, as Trudi posted, is what wintersowing is. any form of starting seeds indoors, regardless of the time, is not wintersowing.

The time, energy, effort and the cost, to start seeds indoors is far to prohibitive to most of us that wintersow our seeds because of the number of seeds we have to start and the number of seedlings we want to have.

There is no possible way most, if not all of us could start our seeds indoors and start more than 100 varieties of seeds.

I for one, wintersow at least 200 or more variety of seeds and have at least 800 containers outside of the seeds by May 1st. No way could I be doing that indoors.

Besides, never having to worry about damping off, hardening off any seedlings is a pleasure to experience, and the seedlings are outside ready to go in the ground. No wasted time in bringing them outside, then inside, then outside again.

I'm also betting that the success rate with wintersowing is far higher than it is with indoor sowing.

I see far more advantages to WS than indoor sowing under lights.

My containers go outside the back door, directly on to the ground, inside a chain link fenced in area.
I use all sizes of containers that are at least 3-4 inches deep, no tonic bottles, no gallon jugs. They do not work well for me.

My hose outlet is right out there and I rarely if ever need to start watering any container before mid May. When I do, the hose is right there and a gentle spray of water takes just a few minutes to do.

I can manage to wait an extra couple of weeks to get my annuals blooming, the pay off in the end is worth the rewards. When the neighbors are pulling out their dead annuals in the fall from indoor starts or purchased plants, mine are still going strong as if it where mid summer.

Besides, knowing all those containers are outside in the snow, putting them outside in the snow, makes the long, cold, snowy winters more tolerable.

Fran

Did you read what I said. I did not say sowing inside was wintersowing. I prefer sowing inside during the winter just like I prefer sowing outdoors in the spring. Everyone has their opinion of how they start their seeds so be it. It's like people growing roses. Some prefer Hybrid teas some rather plant knockouts.

IMO sowing seeds indoors under lights during the winter is technically "winter sowing" or call it "sowing seeds in the winter". Likewise direct sowing seeds, or using a greenhouse, farm machinery, a window sill, etc. to sow. These are not the "winter-sowing method" per the definition above, but there are many different ways to sow seeds during the winter months. And they can all result in plants germinating and growing.

Winter sowing with containers is special to me because it makes sowing seeds easy, and economical, and it makes growing plants from seed available to many more people. You can also get a fairly large volume of seedlings. Actually, too many seedlings is the only negative I can think of about Wsing!! LOL (well that, and it's a little messy looking.)

But there ARE some advantages to sowing indoors under lights and I would do so in special cases. I don't think Mskee would get such huge Yvonne's Salvia plants if she didn't use lights and start them in February. I'm okay with sowing them in containers outside and getting smaller and later Yvonne's salvia. To each their own!

" To each their own " and that's what it's about. How boring the world would be if everyone did the same thing

Another thought,
I have learned so much from WSing,from all of you,why,there are plants out there i have never even heard of,makes me do a little research,keeps my mind young (er) :0), i just found Primula japonica,what a knock out beauty,and guess what,A new garden buddy sent me the seeds.
She did not want a trade,she just sent them to me,now, how sweet is that?
I just planted them yesterday for my solstice planting,and with each seed i put into the soil, i thought of her,and how nice that she gifted me the seed,made them all the more special.

I have never started seed indoors,but to me,it is just that,Starting seed in doors,WSing,is,well,sowing seed in the winter,out side.

I suppose any way you can start seed in a good thing,it's just not, well,WSing.
Is WSing special?
In more ways than can even be expressed,there is more to it than just planting a seed,if you don't get it,you don't get it. :0)
Carol

Yes, Carol, WSing is more than a method, it is a community. It is a community of similar and dissimilar uniting for a common passion in a time where individuality screams loudest. The method of winter sowing, and all it entails, brings me tremendous joy. The sowing of seeds awakens in me a profound sense of hope. In times like these, what two greater gifts than joy and hope? Love? It's here too. That's all.

lisa_nina, I had a similar interpretation. "not so special" = easy, almost foolproof, you don't have to be precise. Plant the seeds and they will grow.

In another sense it really is special. I love it! I would winter sow even if I had no place to plant the babies. It is pure delight for me to see those tiny sprouts emerge and grow in the spring.

If we all wanted to do the same thing there would not be enough milk jugs to go around ") LOL For me winter sowing came into my life at a time where I needed more than just plants, like knowing that there are people out there who just enjoy the simple things, and are so willing to freely share their wisdom, support, pictures, & oh yeah, SEEDS ! big grinns :-) I needed to focus on a joyful thing, like gettin my hands dirty & waiting anxiously to see the first sight of green pop up ") & checking the mail box each day to see that ragged old SASBE tee-hee-hee "). My family has always had a garden, my Granny planted in straight as an arrow rows & only planted by the signs of the moon, & my Grandma, LOL, well her rows were as crooked as a snake, LOL & she said that anytime you can get them in the ground was a good day for plantin, & that you could get more in a crooked row! LOL They both had wonderful gardens ( I think it was all the cow-doo they BOTH used hahah ) I am so thankful to have found this forum & to have met so many wonderful people.
Ya know the old saying different strokes for different folks, At least I know that the ones that sow inside ain't gettin my jugs! hahahaha
jan ")

I am excited about winter sowing because I can grow more than I have room for indoors.

That said, I didnt take the original posters post the way you all did... I think instead of "not special" he might have meant..."not difficult"?

Winter sowing is special to me and the many others that have been on this forum for years now. This will be my 8th season for winter sowing, and this year I won't be doing all that many containers, but thats because my perennial beds are FULL from the many containers I winter sowed in the past 7 years, and I've literally run out of room in my small 1/4 acre yard.

I learned this method of sowing seeds in the winter from Trudi and this group, and have since passed on the method to many, many people. Some like it, some don't but thats all part of individuality. In my very humble opinion, if you want a yard full of perennials (and annuals also) Winter Sowing is the method to use. Happy Holidays all.

Alberta

Last year was my first for WSing and I absolutely loved the process. I sure didn't find it difficult to water the milk jugs in the spring --- I didn't take the lids off until the growth was up to the top. What I did do was make sure the jugs weren't sitting in the sun once the snow thawed.

I always start my tomatoes and peppers indoors but it sure was nice to have room to start everything I want to grow!!! I haven't started yet this winter but plan to after the Christmas rush is over.

Any way you spell 'special' winter sowing is very special.

Jeese... I live in a condo. The only room I have is my patio, that's about 8'X10'. With winter sowing the way I do, I have managed to sow about 46 varieties of perennials so far. I'm not sure how many annuals I'll do. I have taken up less than half my patio with my cold frame, it's 3'X5'. There is no way on earth I could sow that much, with the excellent results I have had in the past, any other way!

There is also no way I could have done that without the Winter Sowing Goddess herself... our very own Trudi! And I couldn't have done it without the support of the members here... both now, and when I passed this way a few years ago. They make this place as special as the process... but that's just my opinion...

Nancy, I had a patio once. It was mostly annuals, but I was able to stuff an amazing amount into that little space.

{{gwi:459023}}

Yup, it sure is amazing what you can fit on a patio/balcony!

PV

Wow Token! That sure is beautiful! It is amazing what you can do on an itty bitty patio! It's one thing that really helps make it a home, when you live in a condo!

I also have a patch of dirt that runs along the length of our unit that I can garden in. It's about 5 feet by 25 feet. The HA wouldn't let me have containers out there though. Picky, picky...

If I had known more about plants, I would have used more perennials and certainly would have winter sown. My patio was direct full sun all year long with no trees or buildings blocking it. I painted the concrete dark brown with some greens and gray mottled over it. I sealed it and it looked aged from day 1. The dark color helped keep the patio warm in winter. In summer, I had a misting irrigation system that I could turn on whenever it got too hot. I loved that little garden. Planted in late April, that was mid June. By July, my salvia was almost 3' tall. If I had known about saving seeds, I would have never purchased another plant. :)

I used a lot of containers too. It was easier with the palms that had to come in during the winter. But they loved the sunlight from the French doors.

I guess what I'm saying is that no one who has a small patch of dirt or concrete should feel that they can't have a nice place to relax and enjoy. Whether it be 20 stories up (pvick) or a 2' wide strip of dirt on three sides.

That is beutiful. Truly a master gardener...Merry christmas Barb

I prefer WS because indoor space is a precious commodity around here.

Planting seeds directly outdoors in the late fall and hoping they come up in the spring is fine if critters don't get them!

I prefer WS because I don't have to worry about lighting, germination, crowded kitchen window sills, damping off, hardening. Those were the reasons I stopped sowing seeds in winter until I came across WS 5 years ago. I have been gardening in winter ever since.
Fun and easy.
Love it.

pitimpinai....

I'll take your list and add small children and pets...

If I can get the plants to germinate, grow and survive all the normal indoor growing hazards, I still have to get them to survive instant total destruction from curious children and nowy animals. ROFL

It's too much hassle.

Madtripper,
I might be reiterating what others have said, but I have to give a big "Yes Winter Sowing is Special!!!" no matter how you do it.

What could be more special where I live-- where winters are very long and sometimes very hard-- than to be able to sow seeds in the dead of winter? And with the small farm house I live in, to be able to do it outdoors and let nature do her thing...doubly wonderful.

I don't have a cold frame, and until my husband gets the hankering to build me one, the milk and juice jugs have turned my flowerless yard into beds and beds of flowers. Considering I regularly killed plants-- indoors and out-- before WSing, that's an accomplishment beyond my wildest dreams!
Accessibility is one of the wonders of this particular method Trudi developed. You can live in an apartment complex on the 10th floor, with limited space on your balcony, and still get the wonder of fresh flowers, and herbs.

Of course our ancestors were experts in extending seasons, and they used the simplest of methods in order to do that. To me, the simplest is always the best. And Trudi's method just perpetuates the beauty of simplicity.

Linda

PS, I use the sweater and blanket zipper bags too, particularly in the Spring when I can tuck things into an area protected from the wind (so they don't get picked up and thrown across the lawn). Love 'em.

Well without starting a flame - I was offended - every year at just about this time of year someone, for no real apparent reason writes a post about how WS is not something new, special, great.... so I checked and since that appeared to be his first post to this forum I am surprised when they say they kinda follow what Trudi puts forth - but it's nothing special. So why post at all unless it is to cause some upheavel?

I should have been clearer in my original post.

1) my sun room is not heated - so the plants get the same cold treatment as they do in the normal winter sowing plan. they just don't get the snow cover which is not required. Without a sun room, you can still use my large containers and normal small pots to make the whole process easier for watering, and do it on your deck.

2) by "not so special" - I meant that the so called 'WS technique' that is discussed is not a mystery nor is it precise. WS your way or my way comes down to a few basic facts. One is that the seeds go through a cold and wet treatment. You can do that in many ways. Second, the seedlings get lots of light right away so they grow 'harder' compared to growing under lights. Thirdly, unlike sowing directly, the seed contact with soil is better and protection from animals is better.

All the talk about soils, covering with snow and pop bottle containers is not really relevant or import to the seeds.

Nor is WS new. People have been WS for a long time. They just did not call it WS, nor did they make a big deal about it. As long as the seeds get a cold treatment, germination is better. that has been done for many ,many years, without a fancy name.

WOW - did I not call that one. the only way to get a troll to leave is ignore them....

MT...outside there is wind, precipitaion and fluctuating temps and a HUGE amount more of light.

Indoors, even without heat, is not The Method and will not produce the same hardy stock.

I'm thinking of winter sowing in a used speedboat, w/0 a motor or seats.

Got the materials, got the seeds, it's got built in drainage, got the idea churning around in my head.....now to find the time.

Couldn't do that in the basement.

Another plus is it is mobile and can be moved forward for better morning sun and back for better protection. Hmmmmm, maybe it wasn't such a bad idea taking it off my neighbors hands.

Madtripper,

I can relate to what you are saying to a certain degree, but you must give some credit to the fact that the method advocated in this forum is one which has been fine tuned so that those of us who have no greenhouses, basement lights, sunrooms, etc. have been enabled to create gardens beyond our expectations.

"Nor is WS new. People have been WS for a long time. They just did not call it WS, nor did they make a big deal about it. As long as the seeds get a cold treatment, germination is better. that has been done for many ,many years, without a fancy name." My mother is an avid gardener at 83 and so are all her friends. Their 'direct sowing method' of wsing in years past always yielded poor results. Yes, you are right that this is a form of winter sowing, but when I showed her and her 14 octogenarians friends how to winter sow as per this forum, I could see light bulbs go on one after the other. Statements like "I wish I had known this 60+ years ago" started flying about like a murder of crows.

You state that "All the talk about soil... is not really relevant to the seed." Have you tried growing seeds in clay soil from your garden or soil from the Dollar Store which turns to a brick at the first opportunity? With new gardeners who have not experienced trying to grow seeds in soil simply taken from their property or poor potting soil it is relevant to talk about what types of soil to use for starting seeds. Actually, it was quite relevant to me in 2001/2002 when I first started winter sowing. I did not know that soil taken from the garden would compact so much in a container that the roots would have difficulty growing. What kind of soil are your seeds in? Something tells me at least a little bit of thought was placed in that purchase.

Every year someone comes on this forum and we have this debate. I'm sure that next year someone else will rise to the occasion. I will admit to having toyed with the idea of doing so in the past myself, but in the end, I look at all the sprouting containers in early summer and at the gardens during the season and realize that there's no possible way I could have done this without THE Winter Sowing Method.

hi wiley,

Some years back there was a person who talked about WSing in her ex's sports coupe. And we've got a member from Amityville who (if I remember right) used to stash his containers in boats ;-)

T

Yeah, Trudi, but that guy with the boats was a weirdo too.

We'll see if that cigar-toking lech monitors us! I suspect he still sneaks in here occasionally to check out our jugs :-0

Karen

Damping off broke my heart FOUR years in a row. Wasted money but most importantly, all that time I spent misting and babying and such.
So glad I came across this forum....

ROFL, Karen! You're probably right ....

PV

LOL Tiff! "Murder of crows"! You, my dear, must listen to the CBC. Group of ducks is a "paddling". A group of jellyfish is a "smuck". But nothing is quite so eloquent as a "murder". Kudos!

That's a horrible expression. I had to google that one as I'd never heard it before. (maybe an oddball Canadian thing?) I conjures up nasty images of the origin of the expression.

Karen

nah, not an oddball Canadian thing, just (I suppose) not used very frequently.

From the "American Society of Crows and Ravens":

"A Âmurder of crows is based on the persistent but fallacious folk tale that crows form tribunals to judge and punish the bad behavior of a member of the flock. If the verdict goes against the defendant, that bird is killed (murdered) by the flock. The basis in fact is probably that occasionally crows will kill a dying crow who doesnÂt belong in their territory or much more commonly feed on carcasses of dead crows. Also, both crows and ravens are associated with battlefields, medieval hospitals, execution sites and cemeteries (because they scavenged on human remains). In England, a tombstone is sometimes called a ravenstone."

PV (with all kinds of obscure stuff crammed in her head)

Quote the Raven, "Nevermore".

when I showed her and her 14 octogenarians friends how to winter sow as per this forum, I could see light bulbs go on one after the other

When I showed my 77 year old father what I had been doing all winter, it was as if a light bulb went off in his head too. He said "That is the greatest idea! It makes so much sense." And he is not a gardener (my mom's the gardener). Just a very smart man. :)

I don't know why some people feel defensive about winter-sowing using Trudi's method. It doesn't mean you can't also sow seeds under lights, direct sow, use a cold frame or greenhouse, sun room, window sill, take cuttings, AND sow seeds using any other method you can think of!

When I googled 'what hardy Annuals to sow in January' entertainment is what I received. So can someone direct me to that list after ROTFL reading the above posts.
I want to WS outside in the elements with a forecast of -23C(-10F) this coming weekend. And I want to WS to my non- heated GH also. And I want to sow to my cold (10-15 degrees C) basement under lights. Any lists out there to satisfy those requirements. The object is to not have to set up lights in the house and use mother nature, mostly.

Sharont, here is a link from the FAQ of this forum. FAQ link is at the top of the forum page in the instructions.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hardy annuals for wintersowing

Wendy,

Yes, I do listen to the CBC. :O) Yet how I know this expression is from having gone to Mount St. Vincent University here in Halifax. In my first year I stayed in residence which happened to be the Motherhouse of the nuns atop a hill. It was an ominous building, quite huge and a bit separated from the campus downhill. In the evenings before the sun would set, the crows would return from their daily voyages and forages to all parts of the municipality to roost in the forests surrounding the building. They still do so to this day and mesmerize many who see this evening event - if they can bear the noise of their story tellings before they fall asleep. Within one week, all new residents would learn of the expression 'murder of crows'.

I did WS winter before last for the first time with very good sucess. I didnt do anything to those jugs. They took care of themselves. And I now have beds full of Perennials.

Last winter I begged for a greenhouse and DH built me a 10x8 leanto GH. I had to go out in the cold and check the temp. and turn the heater up and down and water everyday. when it started getting a little warmer I listened to the weather every morning to know if I needed to turn off heat or open windows and doors before leaving for work at 7am and had to come home and water and close it up and turn the heat back on, etc. It was a lot of work and my plants were not nearly as healty and not as many even survived. this year I am going back to WS!!!
WS is VERY special to ME!

Eeks, I haven't been in this forum in awhile, then I see a this post and must also give accolades to Trudi and her methodology.

Granted, stratification of seeds in not new to the plant kingdom.
The Wsing procedure Trudi promotes is special in the fact that:

1: You may use everyday recycled materials as useful containers.
2: NO fossil fuel is used in this methodology
3: Offers expanded possibilities for individuals who, otherwise would be unable to grow from seed due to space or building limitations or handicaps.
4: Undisputed benifits of the lighting power of natural sunlight, rain water, snow, wind, and temperature variations producing hardy plants without growth regulators.
5: and the most special of all: NOT AN INFOMERCIAL CABLE PROGRAM COSTING MONEY

I have over 25 years of gardening experience under my belt, became a Master Gardener in 1997, yet I found this method a refreshing addition to standard methods for many seed types.

I still use my thermostatically controlled heat/light set up in the basement for some seeds, use the mini greenhouse for others and the sunporch for yet, other seeds. Plus I direct seed.
Winter and Spring sow a majority of seeds,allowing me less stress and reduced operating costs.