This is a fairly common native shrub in my area (Temecula, CA). We had a large toyon for many years until we killed it with overwatering while trying to establish some native salvias :-( This tells you that, once the toyon is established, you can mostly ignore it. You might need to prune it eventually. Our neighbor still has three right on the other side of the fence. They are not invasive. We never saw a sprout. They can get pretty big, though. If the Pittosporum was too big, then I can't see that you'll be much happier with a toyon.

How big did your Toyon get? The variety of Pittosporum that my landscaper planted are in excess of 20 feet here, and almost all have a central trunk and no leaves below, making it look like a tree. Had I known this before he planted, I probably wouldn't have agreed. I know if we keep it pruned back it will be more like a bush, but I'm not sure we'll be deciplined enough to routinely prune it! I've read that Toyon's stay around 8-10 feet, perhaps this is wrong? Although you are in Temecula, I wonder it's growth habit in the Bay area. I lived in San Diego for a few years, and am adjusting to the different plants that I can grow here!

Thanks.

I have Toyon in several locations on our property; they were all planted at the same time 12 years ago. The one that gets regular water is probably 10' tall and about that in spread. The ones that don't get the water are much smaller and less dense. None have any "babies", and none have ever been pruned.

A shrub/small tree you might want to consider is Arbustus unedo -- aka Strawberry Tree. It grows slowly, is dense, and, mine has never been pruned and is about 6' all around after 12 years.

I have 3 toyons planted by a prior owner on a slope. They get no summer water at all and are probably 10 ft tall. The birds eat most of the berries around Thxgiving, but whatever is left goes into my xmas decorations (this is the "holly" in Hollywood); I've never had a problem with berry litter. I've let gardeners prune them a couple of times but usually I ignore them and they seem to be happy.

Toyon is native here in the Sierras at 3000 feet. It's a pretty tough plant, not excessively invasive, berries are mealy inside, survives with no water, and always looks attractive. Seems about ideal except the berries are non-edible.

They are native to this very area, where there are many still growing. I get a few seedlings every year, but not many. I get 100x as many palm tree, jacaranda, and xylosma seedlings as I get toyon. Toyon is a nice tough plant that can go without water. It eventually (after decades) forms a beautiful windswept small tree of beautiful sculptural form. There are some very old ones in the area that are really stunning.

Another native shrub to consider is Prunus ilicifolia. It looks like a camellia (without the flowers). It grows quite fast, can be pruned a lot or not at all, and stays its glossy green self without water.

What about Rhamnus californica- Coffeeberry? How would this compare to Toyon? Which grows faster and how big do each get?

Just read about this one.

Thanks.
Barbara

Here in northern California Toyon can easily exceed 10 feet in height, and I planted one about 5 years ago now that is approaching 18 feet in height, and is more tree-like than shrub like at this point. They will also tend to thin out at ground level and concentrate foliage at the top, similar to the Pittosporum over time. If you want them to stay dense at ground level, you will need to shear them to maintain growth to the ground. I would recommend the Prunus illicifolia, Rhamnus californica or Myrica californica as being better, densely foliaged screen shrubs for what you have in mind, but all of them will stay more densely foliaged to the ground if they are pruned/sheared from time to time.

Bahia-

Do you know the growth pattern of Rhamnus californica? We have only part sun, and are in a woodland area, and so the Rhamnus appeals to me. I see such widely differing information of sizes on this one- from 3 ft tall to over 10 feet. We'd like something around 8-12 feet, and fast growing.

Thanks.
Barbara

Gardenspuds: Our toyon was in the vicinity of 8 ft high when we lost it. This January I planted a new one from a 1 gal pot, and it's done almost nothing since then. But I know they grow very well here, so I assume it'll get bigger in time. I planted a Rhamnus californica about the same time that hasn't done much, either. But, again, I know it does well in the wild here.

Toyon.
Heteromeles arbutfolia.
It is an evergreen shrub to small tree. Average height is about 6' to 8' and about
4' to 5' high. Fairly fast growing evergreen shrub. Needs some water when small to get established. Once established, is drought tolerant and really doesn't like summer watering if not for a little if gets too dry. Old plants can reach as much as 15' to 20' tall. Not an invasive shrub. Produces berries in the fall, but birds eat them. The berries are unedble for human consumption. Though some claim if cooked properly can be eaten. Toyon prefers full sun. Good drainage.

The Coffeeberry is another fast growing evergreen shrub to about 6' to 8'.
Likes full sun, but tolerates some shade. Drought tolerant but like Toyon or most small shrubs, needs water until established. Once established, doesn't need much water.

Both shrubs can be pruned into a hedge. I even have a Fremontodendron and a ceanothus pruned tightly into a hedge.

Coffeeberry is wonderful, and you can choose a cultivar based on how large you want it to be. All of them form a neat mound that is at least as wide as it is high. The species can get up to 8-12 ft., depending on where it's planted.
'Eve Case' is 8-10 ft. and grows fast.
'Mound San Bruno' is 5 ft.
'Leatherleaf' is 8 ft., with darker leaves.

Birds eat the berries, and it does plant itself a little, but not nearly as much as most common landscape plants.

I have a few in my San Jose yard. One (the oldest one) is around 10-12'. I keep it trained as a multi-trunk tree with the bottom area pruned. It really is a 4-season interest tree/shrub. It's getting ready to flower now with beautiful white clusters of flowers against dark green leaves. The berries will start as little light green balls and become bright red by winter (Dec.) until the birds strip them in Feb/March.
I have one in the All native front yard that doesn't get much (maybe late August) in the way of supplemental water that is a tall shrub (maybe around 6-7' right now). I have 2 others (I really, really like this shrub/tree). One is trained/being trained as a single trunk tree and the youngest is planted at the base of an invasive self-sowing privet that will one day replace the privet. I wish I had problems with the Toyon self-seeding...
It's a great smallish evergreen tree or shrub.

Pitt tenufolium tends to be less wide. It does put out some seedlings, but it drought-tolerant and quite useful as a screen. You can lop it off at the top and keep it at any height you wish. Toyon responds well to pruning, too, but is not as narrow as the Pittisporum.

Another useful native that can be easily pruned to a screen is the Pacific wax myrtle (Myrica californica).

wanda

We live in Sierra foothills where we have many Toyons on and around our 1/4 acre lot. We love them. We never irrigate, do trim the ones we want to cut back or shape and keep the sprouts trimmed from bottoms of trunks. We've been here for 10 years and have seen no "comers". The robins come when the berries are ripe and we love watching them. All-in-all a great free landscaping with no downside. Plus, all those free Christmas decorations!