I've seen people use an old waterbed mattress heater and mattress (or air mattress used for swimming) containing a small amount of water to create a mat. The heater warms the water and is safe if it gets wet.

I do have several heating mat and one waterbed heating mat (I wish I had more waterbed heating mats, it works VERY well) that I am using under some of my cuttings. But I need to use the real-estate below my plant table which is full of pea gravel. I was hoping one of the options above would work or something similar that is inexpensive that I could snake around in the pea gravel. I need to implement something soon LIKE tomorrow to get my understock on heat hoping it will come out of dormancy within the next couple weeks.

I will then need it to heat up the grafted plants.

Thanks for the information Abciximab.

Hi Lotus . The easiest and most reliable way to heat larger areas of propagating beds is by using horticultural soil heating cables connected to a thermostat. Did some looking around for US suppliers and here is one.
Hope that helps. T.

Here is a link that might be useful: Heating propagating beds

you dont give us any info on your greenhouse.. is it heated also ????

gary gee uses a greenhouse inside the greenhouse ... to trap additional humidity and generate a higher temp ...

i wonder how much additional space you could keep warm .. with the mats you currently have ... if you simply tented them???

make any sense???

ken

Those are really nice cables Tunilla found. Most of what you'll find are 1/8" wide and don't do squat.

You'll need a way to secure the cables in place so they cannot and will not ever touch each other otherwise you'll have a fire on your hands, which is something to consider in the overall picture.

Dax

Covering the heat tape with gravel sounds ok, putting a piece of plastic on top of the gravel and plants on top of the plastic does not sound like the way to go. Ken's idea of tenting over your plants using gravel over existing heating pads sounds better, if that's doable.

These folks in Australia also have some nice stuff,ideas and useful information...see link T.

Here is a link that might be useful: Heating cables on mesh

i would just lay down some batting/insulation .. at least a foot or two around the current set up .. simply so the pots are not on a cold surface.. and then tent it all.. and i bet there would be enough ambient heat to make them all cozy ...

it is the elevated media temp that is important.. not that the pot has to be literally sitting on the heat ....

in fact.. gees .. i believe.. heats the conifer grafts .. simply with 58 degree well water cycled thru a bed of peat moss ... which is a heck of a lot warmer than the ambient MI winter [i realize you are going for warmer than that.. its an example] ... i do NOT think the larger greenhouse is even heated ... but i could be wrong on that ... all i remember is that i was freezing.. and the grafts in the smaller tent were warm ... relatively speaking

many of the solutions offered sound like something you could plan out for next year.. i am thinking more about right now... w/o major construction.. or trying to find bulk sand or pebbles in winter ... in ND .. the piles of that stuff are frozen solid most likely.. eh???

ken

Check this drink-link:

Here is a link that might be useful: DIY Heat Mat

Ken,sometimes it's nice to make plans for something that will take a year to mature before turning into something really useful.
Dax, I like the re-cycled Christmas lights.
There remains of course the good old hot-bed, filled with fresh stable manure ,covered with coal-ashes or just plain soil into wich the pots are plunged ,the whole lot covered with glazed garden frames (+ old carpets or sacking at night to retain heat)... happy days indeed!!!
FWIW my own heated propagating benches (two wich measure 5' X 15' or 1.5 m X 4.5 m if you prefer) are filled with sand to a depth of 4" / 10 cm into wich my heating cables (bought some thirty years ago! ) are burried . They are connected to a thermostat . The sand is covered with thick polyethylene sheeting wich is perforated in some places for drainage and to assure the sand gets a regular dose of water to stay moist. Onto this go the seed trays pots or whatever could benefit from some bottom heat.Works well - only drawback is the weight of the sand wich causes some sagging of the wooden bottoms of the benches.
Another tip : when buying new heating cables , dip the coil in a bucket of warm (not boiling !!) water; the PVC covering then becomes a lot softer wich makes un-coiling and laying out a lot easier!

Thank you all for your ideas. I already have 5 heat mats going but they are all being used right now. I was looking for a quick way to get my understock warmed up and get them to put out new white roots ASAP. I LOVE the christmas lighting idea. I will be building some of those for sure.

Here is a photo of the area I currently have all my understock. I wanted to place the heat in the pea gravel below the plant bench:
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I do like the heating cable that tunilla linked the best. But I can not swing that financially right now.

I do really like the rope lights and will check into that. Do you think for this year, I could just nestle the rope lighting into my pea gravel? I will build the appropriate structure for next year.

Ken, you may be right, I have enough heat and heating mats in that area that it may be warm enough. I just want to ensure I have the BEST chance of getting my grafts to take.

I really appreciate all of your ideas and especially for helping me think outside of the box. I may have to remove some of my seed flats off the mats I have and just use them this year. Let my seeds fend for themselves.

I see no reason why not to string the Christmas lights under the pea gravel 2-3". Of course you'll have to surround the bench with poly that drapes and gathers on the floor or you'll have no humidity and all dead grafts. You need the poly for a chamber within your greenhouse . . .

Watch your temps so you don't cook your grafts. Keep the poly dry on the inside if you have to wipe it off as a morning ritual.

When the buds begin breaking on the understocks spray them with a fungicide and when the new growth occurs, spray them again.

Watch the hard pines for sawfly larvae while they're actively growing and spray if necessary with an insecticide.

Let the understock media be on the lighter side of moist and don't water for two weeks while they're knitting or as long as you can wait to water. Here I don't water
but every 4-6 weeks.

And have no fear!

Dax

you might want to start a new post.. but i thought you needed just enough heat on the understock ... to keep them from going back dormant ... enough heat to be actively growing those white root tips .... and frankly... i thought.. that conifers stared growing roots.. as soon as the soil unfroze.. which surely doesnt mean a 72 degree heating pad is requisite ... [note all the I THOUGHTS]

as i said about gee's .. he was running barely 60ish ... for grafts .... but when i did seeds in the house.. in the great white north.. the real key was after dark .. and maintaining the warmth at night.... 24/7 lets say ...

what if you just laid some insulation down under the bench [any idea how cold the floor gets at night?].. put in the pads you had.. and then staple plastic to the bench legs ... i dont see why it would not heat the whole area..

if its all that open.. you are really wasting a lot of the heat from those pads ... with very little effect on the ambient room temp ...

now.. is your greenhouse really dry-walled... or is that more of a walkout basement... i am so curious ... well its above ground so i guess it isnt a basement.. lol ..

ken

Dax, thank you for the information. I do have the plastic up already. I hung it across the lights above the bench and down along the outside of the benches and have it draped on the floor all around the bench. I will try to get a photo of that and post for you.

Ken, Firs, I'm confused to in what I want with the heating cables...so no wonder why you are confused. I'm taking one problem at a time and right now I need to get my root stock GROWING ASAP. So that is what I'm looking at right now. Then, yes I will need heat for my grafts. I do have heat mats and will pull my seeds off them as I think they will all be sprouted by then.

Also, to help with your curiosity, I am posting several photos of the greenhouse I built. I had an older gentleman help me but it was one of the toughest projects I've undertaken. I bawled like a big ol baby for a few months until I finally finished everything up. No one wanted to help and all I needed was support for the larger beams, once I had the roof done and the sliding glass doors framed in my stress level went down immensely as then I could handle most projects by myself. I put in all the plumbing and electricity by reading EVERYTHING I could find on the web. So far, things are working fine.

I knew an individual who did renovating and he found me all my sliding glass doors for free. I worked a 2nd job for 5+ years to pay for the rest of the material. The walls are pressed wood which I painted several coats of outdoor paint and put valspar over the top of that. Here ya go:

Here is the outside of the greenhouse while I was building it. I put up gutters as you see and they drain out the back and into a network of plastic barrels saving rain water for my plants:

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I got these old cupboards for free from a farmhouse that was falling down. They were in terrible disrepair and I fixed them up, painted them, then sanded the paint and placed dark stain on them to make them look old and stressed. I love them. The sink also came from an old house being torn down. I just had to buy a new faucet. I've since painted the top of the counter with a shiny black paint which makes it look really nice. The chalkboard you see is really cool. I bought chalk paint and painted right on the wall. It took about 5 coats of chalk paint, then I bought molding and framed it like a picture. It works really well keeping track of things or making notes so I don't forget things. If I'm not home I've had pranks played on me with this chalkboard. LOL I won't explain.

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Here is what they looked like before I fixed them up:

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Here is what the sink looked like. My friends were confused and just did not understand how I could be so excited to obtain a free sink even if it looked a little rough. They think I'm a bit tetched in the head. I was elated, actually on cloud nine and could not sleep for a couple nights that is how excited I was with my find...I could just visualize a sparkly clean gorgeous sink for my beloved greenhouse. Get the rubber gloves and cleaning products. LOL..It turned out just like new.

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Oh, the entire walls are insulated to. Here is how I did that:

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Here you can see the greenhouse at the end of one of my gardens:

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Here I am testing the maximum capacity of my greenhouse LOL:

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I purchased 4 egg casings of these praying mantis and had a few friends watch me tend to my plants all summer:

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Oh, I almost forgot. I have a large pond in my greenhouse. It is a little more than 6' deep where I overwinter my koi. This pond does a couple things for me, it keeps my greenhouse very humid AND I believe (not everyone agrees with me) that it also keeps the greenhouse a little warmer.

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Ken, I hope I've curbed your curiosity...you know what they say happens to a curious cat. I don't want that happening to you as I enjoy all your enticing photos. How else do you think I will fill up my yard with great looking conifers?

wow.. i am jealous. .. now i understand how you cope in z4 .. lol ...

you said: I'm confused to in what I want with the heating cables...so no wonder why you are confused. I'm taking one problem at a time and right now I need to get my root stock GROWING ASAP. So that is what I'm looking at right now. Then, yes I will need heat for my grafts. I do have heat mats and will pull my seeds off them as I think they will all be sprouted by then.

===>>> i think you are flailing about.. because you are mixing grafting needs.. with seed needs with rooting needs ...

i see dax answered most of my questions in the post prior to mine ... lol ... would have helped had i read it first ...

and do understand.. i have no experience .. but i can think ...

I THOUGHT... there it is again ... heating cables.. and bottom heat .. and i will yell .... ARE RELATED TO ROOTING HARDWOOD CUTTINGS .... i thought.. [can i start skipping that part] ... it aided in callousing and root FORMATION ... etc ...

if conifers start root growing.. as soon as the soil thaws ... then i dont understand why you have a need to have your understock with heat ... the ambient warmth of your house.. should be more than enough to initiate root growth ... i just dont see why you are fixated on it .... after bringing in dormant understock.. it simply takes a few weeks for the roots to get going.. heat is not going to speed it up ... its genetic

now.. WHATS YOUR HURRY .... peeps here.. graft as late as march.. perhaps you are just fixated ... on HURRY UP.. GET IT DONE ... in regard to grafting ... chill girl ... lol ...

all that place needs is a hot tub.. lol

your 6 foot deep coy pond.. is of course a heat sink, grabbing an holding heat and releasing it back .... and adds heat to the room [and cools in the summer] .... being 6 feet down.. it is nothing more than a geothermal heat pump ... and will never fall below the temp at 6 feet ... check out the link

soooo.. separate your various needs/goals .. whether grafting.. rooting or seed .. and you will get further in defining what you need for which ... it seems like you are trying to provide one solution for too many options .. leading to confusion ...

i would speculate.. now that i have seen the house.. that you do NOT need heat for understock pots ... and only need to add humidity for the grafts afterwards ... am i right dax???? ..

[and to restate what dax said about watering.. you do NOT want the understock pumping excessive water after grafting.. or it will not allow the graft to callous .. there will be too much interior water pressure for tissue knitting]

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Ok Ken, You are right. I have too many things going on at one time.

1. I have tropical seeds using up my valuable heat mats. They will be sprouted and I will then use these mats for my grafted plants. No problem there. I'm good with this.

2. I have heat mats under my cuttings (conifer & shrub & vines). I will not be able to remove these since these cuttings are precious to me and will need heat for a long time.

3. I'm getting scion WOOD NEXT WEEK!!!! Thus my RUSH to get my root stock growing now! I heat my greenhouse to 45 deg. Therefore, at night the heat varies from 43 - 45 deg. During the day...IF it is sunny it gets anywhere from 50 to 75 deg in there. I know I should be chillin' but I am a high energy person and that is why I MULTI TASK myself to confusion. LOL

I want to graft as soon as the scion wood gets here.

Does that help you understand my rush?

Now, I am going to get myself some of these rope lights. That is the BEST idea for right now. I will place the rope lights in my pea gravel and this will help keep the tented area a little warmer. I think I am now at peace with all that I can do. It is up to mother nature how quickly she will get my understock growing.

whew! Next year I will know a little more of what I need and have a more orderly graft season. Ken, I'm a perfectionist and can not handle this confusion very well. LOL

Thank you for staying with me through this. LOL

the xmas rope lights might still be on super sale .... just dont know if they are rated for water.. so be electrically safe ... ground fault and all ...

I MULTI TASK myself to confusion. now.. why cant you just talk/write whomever is sending the scion.. and ask them to delay a few weeks ... crimminey ...

JUST CALL THEM ... OR EMAIL THEM ... its not like they are being sent from mars.. and are already on their way ...

another thought.. inside a tented area .. you can generate a lot of heat.. with a simple light bulb .... i used to tent my florescent fixture right into the tent.. and it alone kept the temp above 80 ... i ran the lights all night for the added heat .. and cycled them off during the day when it was both bright and warm .....

ken

I'm good now. I think I have everything worked out in my head. I'm just getting ready to run into town for the rope lighting.

I can not call him to stop this. He called me this weekend and had them already cut. You see...there is this little problem with snow and if it snows (supposed to soon) all his plants he wanted to send would be buried. Also, I'm very thankful for his generosity. He is one of the kindest people I know. I think it will all work out ok in the end.

I'm ok with it now. Really. I just needed an alternative to expensive heating and I feel like this will be the best route for me this year.

Sounds funny, but I'm really REALLY enjoying this. I just want my grafts to take. Therefore, I will do what it takes to get things moving along. AND...I can hardly WAIT to begin. LOL

I took my stock in this weekend and I think within the next couple weeks I should start seeing growth once I get them on a little heat.

I will take a lot of photos for you Ken. K?

Lotus,

Congratulations on the greenhouse, it looks really beautiful. How long have you had it for?

If you wanted I'll bet you could have a new career building hobby greenhouses for the wealthy and so-inclined.

What scions will you be grafting - do you know what you're receiving this weekend? I also plan to attempt grafting conifers later this winter. But I am ages behind you. I built a 4 ft. cube out of PVC and poly which is in my basement under a 400W HID lamp. As you can imagine, I am (like Ken) somewhat envious of your incredible greenhouse. Anyway, I haven't brought my understock in yet, and don't plan to do so for another 2 wks.

Let us know how it goes.
Alex

then i guess your next post .. would be how long you can hold scion in the fridge ... and if so.. how ...

i seem to recall that that is possible ...

ken

Wow! Love the green-house. Lite bulbs under the pea-gravel on the floor sounds like a bad idea and a possible shock hazard, if I'm understanding it correctly.

I' very impressed with your greenhouse too ! It looks very cozy !
Wondering about the X-mas lighting though. If it's fitted with LED's ,will it generate much warmth??
I remember my very first propagating bench : two 60 Watt ordinary lightbulbs in a wooden crate with a seed tray on top ! Good luck! T.

Looks great. You did a wonderful job and how wonderful to be able to do grafts and things. Won't be long before it's all ready to go. Good luck.
Cher

First, thank you ALL for the very nice comments.

Maple grove, I do know what I am getting for scionwood. I would be more than happy to email you the information offline. I'm glad you are getting involved with grafting also. Have you grafted before? I used to do everything in my house too. I still do a lot in the house but most of it out in my greenhouse. I am very thankful the process of writing up a building plan, making certain I took my time and added everything that I knew I would want with my greenhouse right away AND the building part is over. It was AWFUL. I would NEVER do it again. Good luck in your grafting attempts. I sure do hope you have success.

p.s. I would NEVER build one of these again. Not for anyone including myself. LOL...That is a man's job. I was just so obsessed with gardening I lost track of what building something like this would entail. I had a hard time lifting all the heavy doors, holding up long boards while nailing one end...OI OI OI. Never again. I like the end results MUCH better. LOL

Ken, LOL...I already was given some very good advice on how long I can hold on to my scion wood. I wish it were a bit different circumstances, but I think it is all going to work out now.

Scotjute, I purchased my lights (45' for $15) and I think I will be fine with them. They are outdoor lights and I plugged them in and they give off a LOT of heat. I am so very VERY impressed. The lights are in plastic and all the plugins appear to be well insulated. I have to think of it this way...people place these lights in severe weather such as wind, rain, ice, snow, sun, etc. So, I'm banking on them working for my situation too. I purchased a large roll of plastic sheeting and will place that over the top of the rope lights to eliminate as best I can the constant moisture that may get on the rope light. We shall see what happens.

Tunilla, I plugged the lights in and in no time flat they felt warm. I'm VERY comfortable that this will work. I stuck a thermometer on the lights and it was reading 73 deg. (THANK you Dax for the very inexpensive suggestion)

Cher, thank you very much for the nice compliment. I agree, I'm pretty much ready. Now it is a waiting game to see what will happen. After work tomorrow my understock will be all nice and toasty again and everything will be back to organized chaos. LOL

Update...just checked the thermometer I had on the lights and it reads 114 deg F. Just in case anyone is considering using these same lights.

Dax for president! T.

Tunilla for VP!

Super set up, Ladylotus.

Thanks for the pics and story about the greenhouse, and good luck with the scionwood next week!!

i would like an update from the lotus on her various experiments ...

ken

Greetings Ken,

Things went very well with my setup. I'm making a few changes this year, like getting rid of more of my perennials/annuals and moving into the tree/conifer rooting and grafting a little more extensively this winter.

This summer the weather was terrible and it got so hot that a lot of my grafts and cuttings perished. I'm going to try keeping them in a different area this summer and hope that we don't have that dreaded drought and heat. Also, I plan to pot them up into 1 gallon containers much sooner. I think that would have helped me with the heat this past summer.

This week I will be moving all my understock into the greenhouse. Hopefully I will see white roots a little earlier this year. I've learned through gardening that patience is not one of my virtues. LOL.

A friend is sending me cuttings within the next couple weeks and I can hardly wait to get started rooting them. I did a seminar on conifers early this summer which led to many other seminars throughout the summer where I gave almost all my rooted cuttings away. waaaa now I need to be sure to get more cuttings rooted for myself to fill in my gardens.

I hope all is well with you. Thank you for asking about me.

An option for heating that's been used in zoo/reptile/invertebrate culture for a long time is Flexwatt. It's pretty efficient, comes in different widths, and you can order it exactly to the length you want it. You control it with a rheostat, hook up the wiring for it yourself (they sell little clips/cords if you're not an amateur electrician) and it works quite nicely. Bean Farm sells it, as do a number of other reptile supply companies.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bean Farm

Unprofessional,

That Flexwatt sounds very interesting. I will have to do a little more research on that but OMG I could place those across all my table I built in my greenhouse. Thank you SO much for the information.