Woohoo! I can take care of this one...

Hiya Toni...

Ok the first thing you need to do is realize that bonsai will demand patients of you-- I know, I know, patience *blah!*.

Second you need to decide what you would like to see in the end product. Jade seems to lend itself to pretty much all forms except literati (one of the styles of bonsai that is essentially a tall, whispy-like form/shape) as jade needs rather stout and solid trunks/branches due to their water weight.

Once you have something in mind, you must grow the plant to the size you want it to be. This may involve putting it into a larger pot and letting it grow wild. Port-afra, the type I'm using, grows like a weed in full sun, a balance fert. and lots of water (yes, it loves to drink when its growing, and rarely gets root rot like many other jades).

You have two options with "growing out" your jade:

1) Grow it to get size only trimming back branches as you see fit

2) Grow the base to the size you want, then chop the trunk, leaving branch to turn it upward to a new leader, grow it again to the size you want, and repeating the process until you get the "taper" of the trunk you want. This is time consuming, but will reveal impressive results. I am currently training one of my port afras this way and its turning out nicely.

Jades can be wired but you must be very careful as they can easily be damaged and even break off branches. I always work with my jades when they're completely dry and a little wilted as they are more pliable then. For instructions on how to wire, I suggest checking out a bonsai book from you local library as its is rather detailed.

Be sure to consider the entire plant. You may be able to create beautiful trunk and canopy but the roots at the surface are also considering when forming your masterpiece. Older trees often have old, gnarled spreading roots at the ground surface and can give the idea of great age. Jades-- at least port afras-- in my experience can give very nice lateral roots.

Really, I do suggest you grab a bonsai book and read through it-- it'll give you a great idea of what it'll take. Time is the base ingredient-- but with Jades, a nice bonsai can be formed rather quickly, when compared to cedars or oaks which grow very slowly!

Hope this helps,

Ryan

Pachyforms 2: Bonsai Succulents

Buy it now, you won't regret it!!!

Jo, have to reply to you first..
You said, 'Buy it now, you won't regret it.'
Oh yes I will regret it, hubby will kill me..lol..
I'm sure it's an informative book, but I've been spending a little too much, so for the time being, have to count on GW and the internet for information. But thanks anyway..perhaps some time in the future.
Thanks for the name of the book, too; perhaps the library has it avialable.
I'd rather own a book/s since I tend to add notations and underline. Don't think the library would appreciate lines, remarks, etc..lol

Ryan, Ryan..After reading the first line you typed, 'Whohoo, I can take care of this one,' I bursted out laughing..thanks so much, I needed a chuckle..

I have no idea which shape to go with..what options do I have..I have bonsai wire, but don't know how to use it..lol.
I have an antique bonsai pamphlet..it displays different shapes/styles. Problem is, there aren't any Jade pics to compare..

Oh boy, cutting the trunk..time isn't what worries me, killing the plant is..lol.
I'll have to reread your post. Follow instrucions.
Jade is 5 1/2" tall..btw, I removed plant from its pot last night..dont know how or why the roots are growing like they are. They're 1 1/2" deep, with a flat bottom surface..will this make a difference? Also, the Jade has been in this little 4" clay pot forever. So, roots are completely tight and wound together.
Do I cut into roots to separate?

Also, because roots are so tiny, and flat, would I need to cut back more? It's hard explaining. Maybe I should take a pic of roots..

You said grow the base to the size wanted..are you referring to the trunk? Actually, I'd like a taller trunk..so, should I remove bottom leaves and wait?

Air roots improve the plants' looks. My bonsai Ficus have these roots..Some people suggest removing, while others say stick them in soil..hmm?
BTW, the Ficus was pre-shaped when purchased, I can't take credit for its looks..

About pot size...wouldn't placing plant in a large pot delay growth? Usually, when a plant, any plant, is potted in too large container, instead of growing big like most people assume, roots have to fill in before plant resumes growing..leaves, branches. Or does it work different with bonsai?

I have some info on The Art of Bonsai, I'll browse through a book or two..the only problem is, they discuss plants like Oak, maple, etc. Not house plants.

Thanks for the help. I'll try working it out..
Ryan, I have patience..lol..A must for people who grow plants..Thanks, Toni

Hey, Toni!

I finally got around to re-potting my Port. afra - and I have pics (which I'll sort through tonight). In total, I had seven rooted stems in the pot, and so I selected two of these to grow upright into "tree" forms. The others I loosened from each other, but then just plopped them as a group into one pot. They're all pointed upwards, so I'll be able to separate them this spring and turn them all into little "trees."

I didn't prune the roots, other than tearing them apart ;)
I figure it's warm enough out here in the West for the roots to heal before they rot. And I won't water for a week at least.....or until I notice that the roots are beginning to bite into the new potting medium.

I'm excited after seeing everyone's Port. afras....in a few years, I might have a specimen of my own!

Josh

Toni--

Not sure about the large pot thing being bad. It has been my experience...at least with my trees and port afras, that they grow quickly and BIG in their large pots. Some plants do indeed like to be root bound-- like my amaryllis, but it has been my experience thus far that my port afras prefer room to grow.

About your choice in a "tree" form-- which is purely subjective, but I understand your meaning. Removing lower branches to reveal a trunk is not always advisable. I have not experimented with my port afras yet (they all have their lower branches still)-- but with my apples and olives, I let the lower branches grow without pruning as they help add thickness to the trunk, and quickly. Consider-- if you have no branches in an area, the only way to thicken the area is for a growth cycle to be completed. However, if their is a branch, most plants-- especially trees-- will fortify a branch, trunk union-- so not only will you get a growth cycle's thickness but also the added tissue of the union. This method has yielded a very fat trunk at the base of my crab apple and my regular apple-- I'm using the same method on my port afras.

The best part about jades as bonsai is that they are so forgiving and can be very small or very big.

This port afra is done by a man in Florida-- the tree is several FEET in height and the bases, as you can see, are likely thicker than a person's thigh (ok, thats purely subjective too! lol).

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The thing you must remember though is that jades are very heavy-- the above tree is easily 100's of pounds. Therefore, whatever shape you choose, it will all be for naught if you do not grow the appropriate base (thick enough trunk or branch etc)

My port afras are only two years old and they've grown so fast, you would not recognize them from when they were 1-inch cuttings. One tree is roughly two feet tall...another has a trunk that is several inches in diameter-- in 2 years!

Anyway-- I gatta go and rig up a light for my plants-- they are light hungry.

Ryan

Hey, Ryan! That Port. afra is a masterpiece...and a handful, no doubt...! Thanks for adding the pic. Superb example. I have nothing so nice, but I did take a few quick pics for Toni.

First, I concur with Ryan - to grow a big plant, you need an appropriately big pot. With the proper peat-free potting medium, you needn't worry about root-rot, either.

I know you're probably all sick of seeing my "mother jade" (plain ol' Crassula ovata), but she's the largest I have - and the first cutting I ever rooted. Three or four years old now. Almost one year in this large pot. We've got a long way to go yet, but I'm happy with the progress.

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Josh

Josh-- I have the exact same pot as you! I've never had luck with it though-- odd as it may sound, nothing has "thrived" in that pot. I tend to use unglazed terra pots as my staple.

The port afra posted above is by Jim Smith, I believe-- credit where credit is due!

Josh, ripping roots apart..ouch!
No, I'm not sick of seeing your Jade, it's exciting viewing others' pictures.
What size pot did you use for the Afras? Those you plan on shaping into trees? BTW, how tall do Afras get? For some reason, mini comes to mind, but after seeing Ryans beautiful, gorgeous bonsai, I have no idea.
Josh, what size container is your C ovata in?
Maybe I didn't explain what I wanted to do..I'd like to start a Jade, 'C. ovata,' as a bonsai like Ryans. Why then would it need a big container??? Please explain?
I planned on starting a tree-shaped Jade too, like yours, Josh, but decided to give the second cutting to a woman who's having financial hardships.
Now you guys got me excited; feel like ordering another Afra..lol..Or, I have two green Afras and one variegated. One green is in a dog planter..pot size 1-2". The tree is 10" tall..it looks scarggly. It's never been wired, so hasn't any particular shape..just wild-foliage.
I should snap a pic of that too..lol..Need advice.
Josh, how tall are you going to allow your C. ovata to get before pruning? I've seen pics of huge Jade Trees, taller than 6'. They were huge until the owner whacked them down to nothing..lol..
Josh, when you have time, please snap a pic of your Afras, I want to 'see' how you potted them up. BTW, do you wire?

Ryan, Ryan, Ryan..what can I say..I'm speechless..That tree is 'The Bomb!'
Its weight is over 100 lbs? Is that what you meant? How in the world to you move it? A crane? lol
It's really something.
What do you do about its roots? Do they not need pruning, living in such a tiny pot? If so, how often? BTW, what size is its pot? Height? What about fertilizer? How often and what type? Do Afras flower? If so, what do they look like?

Do you have pics of your fruit trees? Please post if you do. Are you growing fruit as bonsais, too? That has to be tricky..Are they kept in or outdoors? Do they need a cool period to grow? If so, living in a warm climate, how do you manage?

You guys are funny. You forget I live in Il..the state of gloom..many months of cloudy days..
Ryan, you mention 1" cuttings-then, 2'-2 years later. Perhaps I should start using larger containers, but fear rot. Especially, the room C&S's live is kept cool, moreso at night. Seems like cloudy days are endless. Another reason I fear rot. The mediums I mix are well-draining, so there is less chance of rot..
I'm going to send pics..perhaps you two can help out..both Afras need work.
I'm also going to send a pic of a Richardsiana Begonia bonsai started from a baby cutting..it was recently pruned, but starting to grow in..if you guys have any ideas let me know.
Also going to snap a pic of the Jade that's going to be divided in two, one hopefully shaped into bonsai..

Ryan, see how speechless I am since viewing your plant? You should catch me on a talkative day..:) Toni

Toni--

I don't think I made it clear, that tree is not mine-- it belongs to Jim Smith in Florida. He has several huge trees like this and they are amazing. I draw from his trees inspiration for my own!

Regarding your jades, big pots and rotting: I personally will not water my port afras much at all during the darker winter months-- they will grow gangly and ugly--so I restrict their water and allow them to stay in a dormancy. Spring through Fall is prime growing time, though and they chug the drink like a Texas A&M Junior! *snap!*

However, my plants do go under lights in the winter-- they just don't do well when I move them inside so the extra light I believe should help.

Ryan, forgot to ask, what type of lights did you rig up?

Okay, here's a few pics of plants that 'need' work.

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First two pics are of the Jade I want to bonsai.
Next two are green Afras. They need major work. More sun? Pruning? Any suggestions?

Last is of Begonia Richardsiana. The begonia was started as a 5-7" cutting, two years ago. Lowest part of the trunk is a little over an inch. This begonia flowers in spring and summer, veins redden. Cuttings are super easy, root in water or soil.
Anyway, if anyone has advice, please be honest..Toni

Toni -

Not to rain on your fun, but your tree will recover better at the onset of the growing season, in my experience. I know it is exciting to work on a new tree (believe me, I have a hard time waiting, too, and have killed more than my share in over 15 yrs of playing with bonsai) but it will usually increase your odds for success if you wait.

That said, if you wanted to experiment, have fun. But you may also want to hook up with a local bonsai nursery or club - they will usually offer great classes and instruction that will assure you of the results you are seeking for your tree.

Jim Smith is pretty much the pioneer of P. Afra bonsai in the states. My large P. Afra is originally from his nursery. I also picked up a great Adansonia Digitata (baobab) from him a few years back that is doing really well...

Check out his site if you really want to see some crazy P. Afra bonsai...

Here is a link that might be useful: Two of his trees...see more on his site...

That begonia is very cool, btw.

does it flower?

That begonia is very cool, btw.

does it flower?

Ryan, guess we were typing the same time.
Oh, I see..you said, 'this port afra was done by a man in Fl.' Thought you meant you bought the bonsai from Mr. Smith. Bought as in, withdrawing a second mortgage. lol
So, did you complete the drawing? Have a pic?
How large are pots your Afras are in, since you withhold water in winter? Do you use a soil-less mix?

Hi Tom..Yeah, I know it's the wrong time of year, but once you get the urge..know the feeling?
Since you're in MA, you probably understand, the, gotta do something plant-wise, during cold, dark days.
The urge usually strikes a little later in the year, Jan through Feb, but it's hit earlier for some reason. lol
Tom, I have several jades, so, if the experiment doesn't work, there's more in spring.
Also, I promised someone 1/2 the cutting posted above, so it needs to be divided anyway. But thanks for the warning.

BTW, I browsed all 13 pages of Jim Smith's site..Wow..It's amazing what he's accomplised in as little as 9 years. From cuttings yet..Sheesh.
His Bougs are amazing. One is in flower. I wonder if his Bougs are deciduous or evergreen.
Tom, do you have pictures of the two bonsais you got from Mr. Smith? I'd really like seeing them. If you don't mind.
Does Baobab need a cold period in winter?

Thank you..Yep, the begonia flowers from spring through early autumn. Pink/white blooms.
I just gave 7 cuttings to a friend. Perhaps in spring, after pruning, if you're interested, let me know, and I'll ship cuttings for postage. I don't like tossing cuttings so they end up in water. lol. Toni

Hi -

I push my baobabs int dormancy starting now by cutting back on their water until they are getting watered about once a month December and January. Around March, I start upping the frequency again, and they are usually showing signs of waking up.

T

Tom,
What are your temps during dormancy?

Right now I am still hitting 70s during the day, low fifties at night in my grow room. In the dead of winter, I will eke out the mid to upper 60s day, 50 at night.

T

Tom do you keep Baobab on an Enclosed porch? Which room drops to 50 at night?
Do you have any pics before dormancy?
There's a seller on Ebay, I 'might' buy a few plants from him. He has a Baobab plant on his list. But if it requires winter-like weather, I don't have a room that gets that cold..lol..

The Jade is still lying in waiting on the table..lol..Don't know what to do with it...Toni

Toni,
is that the soil your jades are growing in, or is it a peat-pot of some sort??? They look quite healthy, yet that soil appears compact and dark, very peat-based, with particles that are too fine. Whatever you do, please get rid of that soil and pot these jades in a truly fast-draining gritty medium - perlite, small gravel, charcoal, turface, and bark (for your organic component, if you wish).

That said, I'll offer two approaches.

First, take an old bread knife, the type with the serrated blade, and simply slice the root-ball right in half, one clean shot down the middle. Then, loosen up/unravel the roots as you like, and re-pot in the gritty medium mentioned above. Most importantly, Don't water for at least a week: wait for the sliced roots to callus.

The second method is more gentle.
Using a hose or bucket, wash away all of the old soil from the rooted stems. Then, slowly untangle the root-masses from eachother, cutting away crushed or broken roots. Once they're separated, leave them to dry for a time - get rid of the excess water from the soil removal. When the roots are no longer visibly wet, pot each plant in the fast-draining mix that you've prepared ahead of time. Fill the pot to the appropriate height, then spread the roots outward from the trunk and pour on a bit of mix, slowly covering the roots and stabilizing the plant at the same time.

You'll probably need a stone or two to keep the plant from tipping...when the plant becomes stable again, you'll know that the roots have established themselves in the new potting medium. I must repeat: Don't water for at least a week: wait for any roots injured in the process to callus. This is especially important if your light levels have diminished and if your weather's turned foul. However, if you use very gritty soil, you really needn't worry about root-rot.

Josh

I'd like to follow up on Josh's post by mentioning something more about the root system.

Often, you will find bonsai in shallow pots. This isn't as simple as it may seem. The roots must be trained to spread laterally in order to provide not only nutrition but also stability. One method is what I've seen called the tile method. Simply put, you place a til under the root ball, spread the roots over it and plant the roots, tile and all, in a large pot. This will allow the roots to grow and spread laterally over time, giving you a clearly defined area to prune the root mass before placing in a shallow pot. Some people will place a hole(s) in the tile to allow the roots to grow through it-- later chopping them off at the tile. I've done this, somewhat successfully so far, with one of my port afras. My other two have received their tiles this past summer. Having checked my first port afras, tons of roots have grown out around the tile, bringing the plant back to its typical vigor-- and awaiting repotting next year.

Ryan

Hey Josh...which plant are you referring to? The upsidedown Jade?
If so, it's an engima. First, I have no idea where it came from..a friend once sent Hammel Sunset cuttings, so it's possible that's the jade. I surely didn't take cuttings from Jade ovata, too many as it is.

If the Jade is from her cuttings, you guessed it, they were rooted in peat pots, 2-3 yrs ago..I'd have to go through plant journal for exact date.
Cuttings were planted in a strangely shaped clay pot. Besides being rootbound, the roots molded like the inner pot..looks like a cupcake or mushroom. lol
So, if you see peat, it's not from my mix, it's from the peat pot.

Josh, for C&S's, I use...Soil, Cactus soil, Perlite, pebbles, Bark, Charcoal, and a little Gritty Sand.
I admit it..I cannot quit using black soil..Don't use much, but enough to blend in.
In the last 20 yrs, plants rotted 5 times, if that..it wasn't because of soil, it was due to cold..
Before getting new windows, the back room, where, at the time C&S's lived, got cold. Not a little cold, a lot cold..one night it was 23F. 2 thermometers, so I know this number was accurate.
Two plants died because of my stupidity. I watered at night..BIG mistake..lost a Pachy and Sago Palm.
Since new windows have been installed, the room is still chilly, but nowhere as cold as it used to get.
Lesson Learned: Never water at night, no matter how dry soil is.

Josh, I won't 'admit' the number of years I've been growing plants, lol, but started in my teens.
At the time, there wasn't any internet, or plant groups. The only way to learn was by reading, watching tv plant shows and raising a plant/s.
I realize people raise plants different nowadays than they did say 20 yrs ago.
Back then, soil-less mixes were unheard of..in this part of Il anyway. So, I learned by reading and growing.
The only available soil was Hyponex, thick, heavy, black soil.
In the beginning, the first year, I killed plants..Too much, TLC. It was then I figured soil was too wet, so I cut down. Then, I can't recall which book I was reading, it read, soil needs to dry between waterings/sand should be added. So, I bought a bag of sand..BTW, never heard of Perlite back then.
You and a zillion others will disagree, but I truly believe plants require black soil..not pure, of course, but a little..IMO, black soil contains nutrients.
I do admit, cactus and sux need little if any black soil. After figuring this out, cactus soil were availble.
I used Hyponex with quite a bit of sand..gritty sand, but sand..not beach sand. Every so often a cactus or succulent died, but nowhere near as you'd think.
I'm not saying I'm a plant genius, I'm not boasting, (in fact, I've low self-esteem) but considering we live in a cold, dry, cloudy climate, my plants do well, so I can't complain.
As much as I agree plants need Perlite, etc, I also believe the mix should contain some black soil.
Please don't be upset, it's just my opinion. I'd never tell anyone to use it, but when people ask what my mix consist of, I'm honest.
Another thing we're going to disagree about, lol, everytime I've dwelt with cuttings, either to root, or rooted, I always watered soil..I don't use rooting hormones, or wait for stems to callous..lol..Never had problems..Again Josh, everything stated is my opinion, the only way I've cared for plants over the years.
One thing, a debatable topic, is added Superthrive. Or, maybe I have a plant Guardian Angel, lol.

Thanks for advising how to cut roots on Jade. I'm going to do it tonight..chose option one, chopping, like docking a dogs' tail.
I've whacked roots removing offshoots from Bromiliads. Guess it's the same procedure.
Thanks so much for your help, Josh..I hope you're not upset with me for being honest. Toni

Hi Toni -

I keep my subtrop and trop bonsai and my succulents in a sunroom with HID lights over the winter. I can let the temps go anywhwere I want in there. Here are a few pics before I brought all my plants in for the season (now, it is pretty packed in there!):

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And here is a pic of one of my baobabs when it was starting to wake up last spring:

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T

No worries, Toni!
It sounded as though you didn't know where to start. So I thought I'd offer some advice, since I've done this very thing recently. Good luck, by the way. I'm sure you had fun cutting through those roots tonight! Tough love, eh? ;) Oh, and I'm glad those were just peat-pots!!!

I used to think as you do, regarding "black soil" - heck, I even added compost (leaves and all manner of detritus) to my pots. I also added rocks, big rocks sometimes, to the bottom of the pot. Thankfully, I never lost a plant, despite these practices ;)

If we were talking about ferns, I'd recommend a different potting medium entirely - one which would include peat moss, a.k.a. the "black" component in bagged soils.

Instead of watering your plants when you re-pot, you might consider just moistening your potting medium and allowing it to sit, say, over-night. I find this gives the potting medium a bit of adhesion, and also weight, which helps hold the newly-potted plant upright. Crassula ovata don't need to be watered right away....I'd rather a few wrinkled leaves than risk a rotted root...but that's just me...knock on wood!
____________________________

Tom, you have a gorgeous sun room and exquisite plants.
Thank you for offering this glimpse into your realm.

Josh