It looks like a bit of sunscald to me.

I've read when moving from a low light situation, you should do so gradually. The leaves aren't badly affected, but after it's had a chance to acclimate to it's new micro-climate, I would remove the sun burnt leaves.

They won't heal, it'll just remain on the leaf like a scar.

You could reduce the intensity of light it's getting by setting it closer to the interior of a bright room and gradually move it to the window over a course of days to weeks.

Good luck with it
=)

Thanks! It is new growth though so I don't think it's from moving it. It's only about a month old or so and I moved the plants in September. We don't get intense sun here this time of year either.

It could be any of a number of issues, but when jades are over-watered, they become very susceptible to a physiological reaction called oedema, which is caused by excessive turgidity (internal water pressure). Water pressure in plants can become so high that cells rupture or the cell contents leak into inter-cellular spaces. Usually oedema is primarily driven by over-watering, but cool temperatures, high humidity levels, low light conditions, or partial defoliation can individually or collectively be secondary contributors. Initially you'll notice wet or weepy areas on the foliage, which gradually turn corky/ scaly/ ridged. If the damage seems more severe on the underside of the leaf, it's probably oedema.

Sunburn (photo-oxidation) is a light-driven chemical reaction that produces an O- free radicle which is very reactive. It oxidizes molecules in exactly the same way the O- radicles in hydrogen peroxide do. The first symptom of sunburn is usually a gray/silver bleached out appearance on the areas of the leaves most exposed to sun, so usually upper leaf surfaces. As the dead tissue ages, it can turn brown, black, or black to brown.

It could also be damage from over-watering not related to Oedema, insect predation, or damage from a high level of dissolved solids (salts) in the soil preventing efficient water uptake. Sometimes, when isolating the problem doesn't look like it's in the cards, a review of how well we're doing at satisfying the plant's cultural needs and adjusting so what we're doing isn't so limiting can pay big dividends.

Al

Thanks Al! I'm wondering if it's too cold? What's the "lowest" temperature that they should go to? The window it's near gets pretty cold. However it's always been on that side of our office. But maybe because it's new leaves/growth? I'll take a look at the underside tomorrow.

They like it warm, so 65-75 or a little warmer is ideal.

The plant will TOLERATE much cooler temps, especially when it's on the dry side, but don't confuse what they tolerate with what they appreciate. A lot of growers, even experienced growers, have trouble keeping those two ideas separated.

The reason I say that is, there is something in plants called the LCP (Light Compensation Point) This is the point at which the food the plant produces through photosynthesis is exactly equal to the amount of carbohydrate the plant uses during respiration. If the plant can't produce the amount of carbohydrate the plant needs to grow and keep its systems orderly, the plant is dying. That doesn't mean it will absolutely die, but it will if the trend isn't reversed.

I said all that so I can say that temperature plays a big part in the plant's ability to efficiently carry on photosynthesis, so the colder the plant is, the less efficient it is at photosynthesis and the more likely it would be to go backward. In essence, when the plant can't make enough energy to satisfy it's own needs, it switches to its reserves - it's stored energy - sort of like our living off stored fat if we stop eating, or switching from a generator to keep our home powered to battery power. When the juice in the batteries (the plant's stored energy reserves) is all used up, the plant has a serious problem, so you as a grower, have a vested interest in making sure the plant can sustain itself.

Al

I have checked my plant(s) this morning and none of them are wet or weepy, nor does there appear to be any damage or "strangeness" to the underside of the leaves. I take all these things as good??

I also checked the soil, and it doesn't appear to be damp for at least the first 1/2-3/4". (I am planning on changing it in the spring to gritty mix.) That being said, I did look at the leaves and they all seem to be VERY plump except for a few new ones. I am going to hold off on watering for a while until I see the plumpness go down quite a bit.

I can't bring these plants home as I have a cat that eats everything. So unfortunately they are stuck here at work in less than ideal conditions, but better than they were in my coworkers office.

Yes - good things, all.

On another thread, I'd mentioned that methods we would probably call conventional growing techniques are often focused more closely on avoiding our killing the plant than they are on providing the plant with the best opportunity to realize its potential. The example used was the ponytail palm and the widespread belief that this plant performs best if it's grown tight (with congested roots). It's less likely to die from root rot if it's grown tight while using a water retentive soil, but the plant itself doesn't like tight roots any more than you would like shoes 4 sizes too small.

That was my lead-in to talk about a couple of things you just mentioned. It's very common to hear the advice that the best way to avoid watering a jade and many other succulents is to wait until they start to lose turgidity (start to go soft). Indeed, that IS a reliable indicator that the plant needs water, but it isn't made manifest until the plant has already suffered the effects of drought stress for some length of time. We KNOW drought stress isn't any better for succulents than it is for sequoias or snapdragons, and because the plant tolerates drought stress reasonably well doesn't mean it likes it. Stress is stress, and from the perspective of growth and vitality - IOW, from the plant's perspective - it's always a negative, even if the grower views it as a positive.

The ideal time to water plants in active growth isn't after they've suffered a period of drought stress, it's before they enter into that stressful period - so before they go all soft and wrinkly.

The only reason you hear that ponytails like tight roots and jades should go soft and wrinkly before watering, is because people take for granted that you will be using a soil that forces you to be safe rather than sorry, or they are just repeating what they heard somewhere else. If your soil holds too much water, the reality of over-potting is an inherent issue, and the risk involved with watering plants growing in a water retentive soil sooner than they need water can compromise root function and cause root rot.

As you mentioned, you plan on changing to a soil that isn't water retentive - one that holds almost all of its water inside of soil particles instead of between them. When you do that, you won't need to worry about how tight you grow your plants or whether it's 'safe' to water your plants before they've endured a measure of drought stress. By moving toward the concept that minimizing the volume of water held between soil particles in favor of more water held within soil particles is a major positive, you'll enjoy a significantly larger margin for grower error, proper watering is easier and your technique less critical, and maintaining precise control over your nutritional supplementation will be very easy. These are areas that impose a lot of limitations on plants, and it's not something that jumps right out at a grower until it's explained and that 'oh yeah, I get it now' moment occurs.

I'm really hoping you end up feeling like your choices have improved your proficiency and increased the amount of satisfaction you enjoy from the plants you nurture. I think that understanding the importance of root health to the o/a health of the organism and understanding how to provide a healthy home for roots with no inherent compromise is the largest step forward a container gardener can take at any one time.

Al

Here is a picture of the plants when I first rescued them from my coworker. She had them in her office with the blinds closed and barely watered them.

I separated and whacked them.

This is them three months later. Just a few weeks ago.

Try an experiment for me, please? Look at each of your plantings in the picture individually, with your eye level half way between the soil line and the top of the plant. Consider the plant's structure - how it's put together. Spin each plant until you think you're looking at the most interesting view of that plant, compare, then choose the plant you think has the potential to be most interesting.

How about any one else reading the thread offering a vote based just on the pictures. Which plant is most appealing?

Al

My favourite is the one I whacked the most. I think it'll be very fun to turn into a little tree.

On a side note, if I view this thread on my phone all the pictures are the right way. On the computer they're sideways sometimes!

Al, I just went back and reread your third post and I have a few questions.

I believe this should be the start of the dormant season for jades should it not? Or are they always producing more leaves? All of mine but my mini are producing new growth still. Should I be watering more since they're actively growing? Should I continue to fertilize while they're still growing too?

I'm definitely a recovering overwaterer so I don't want to kill these poor guys until I can get them into a better draining mix.

Jades don't really go into a predictive dormancy, which is a protective mechanism plants use to survive adverse conditions, like severe cold. The plant doesn't enter a state of innate or predictive dormancy like temperate plants, but it is stimulated by longer nights (technically, it's the longer dark period and not shorter days) to enter a period of quiescence, or quiet rest. The plant still grows (and produces leaves) and uses energy, but at a much slower rate than during the active phase of the growth cycle. During the rest period, it's best for the plant if it's kept where it gets as close to total darkness as possible during the night, though I don't know of anyone who obsesses over that point.

Plants that are actively growing should be watered and fertilized. When the plant's growth has slowed to almost nothing, there is no harm in maintaining normal fertility levels (no one extracts the nutrients from the soil where they naturally occur when the plant goes quiet, but if you're using a soil that doesn't allow you to flush the soil, I would withhold fertilizer for 2 reasons. A) The overall EC/TDS (salt level) of the soil solution can quickly get out-of-hand-high if you're fertilizing and not flushing the soil, and B) The ratio of nutrients (to each other) can quickly become badly skewed if you're not flushing the soil. This is especially true if you're not using a fertilizer whose ratio closely mimics the ratio at which the plant actually uses nutrients. When this occurs, an excess of 1 nutrient can make it difficult to impossible for the plant to take up 1 or more nutrients. We see this most often when growers use high-P fertilizers, thinking it will promote increased production of roots and blooms. Instead, the excess P causes a host of other issues that are not so easy to figure out unless you know what's occurring.

During the winter, I fertilize everything I grow at every watering. Nutrient usage is closely tied to water usage, so it's an efficient way to fertilize. Again, you can only do that if you're flushing the soil when you water. If you can't flush the soil, fertilizing at each watering isn't an option.

The advice to NOT fertilize during the winter is another piece of advice more closely related to not killing the plant than providing a healthy environment. If you're using a water-retentive soil you can't flush, you should probably avoid fertilizing in the winter because of the buildup I mentioned, but with open soils that allow you to water freely, there is no harm in maintaining moderate fertility levels during the plant's quiet period. Until your plants are in a soil you can flush at will, I'd fertilize only sparingly, if at all, from now until spring.

BTW - you asked about watering more, or less. You should water on an as needed basis. Still another convention is that you should never water on a schedule. This too, is a piece of advice that focuses more on sparing the plant from root rot or impaired root function than any other reason. If you're using a soil that doesn't hold water in the pores between soil particles, the reason for not watering on a schedule goes away. As long as you are close to reasonable and don't forget to water, you're golden.

If I remember what thread I'm in, I think we've talked about 4 different fallacies that are common convention in which we trade growth and vitality for what we think is a reduction in the probability we will kill the plant, when all we really needed to do is use a soil that doesn't force these compromises.

Al

Thanks for your quick response. I do have another few questions. What do you mean by flush? My plants are fed by my water cooler at work so there should be no additives (chlorine salt etc) to the soil. Also,if you notice in the pictures there are plastic "plates" under each pot. My grandmother taught me to pick up my plant to see if it was I need of water. Do you recommend this as well? I also watch the moisture level on the "plate" to see if there are any beeds of water.

Flushing the soil is accomplished by pouring enough water through the soil to force accumulating dissolved solids (salts) from things like your tap water and fertilizer solution to go into solution and be flushed from the pot through the drain hole. The practice of flushing the soil when you water is valuable for 2 reasons. A) it helps keep the o/a level of salts at the lowest concentration possible w/o a nutritional deficiency. This desirable because the lower the salt level in the soil solution, the easier it is for the plant to take up water and the nutrients dissolved in that water, and B) flushing the soil is like hitting the fertilizer reset button. Skewed fertilizer ratios force the need for higher salt concentrations to prevent deficiencies (especially if your fertilizer doesn't provide nutrients at the same ratio in which the plant actually USES them) and skewed ratios cause antagonistic deficiencies (too much of 1 nutrient making it hard for the plant to absorb another.

Bottled water may or may not have a lot of dissolved solids in it. 'spring water' can have high concentrations of dissolved solids, as can filtered water, Water filtered by reverse osmosis is usually very low in dissolved solids. I have a meter on the RO water system I bought a few years ago for plants and drinking water, and the filtered water still comes out at 0 ppm, which means nothing dissolved in it after 3 years of use. The only maintenance I've had to do is change 1 inexpensive sediment filter - a 2 minute job. The inexpensive and compact system I use also removes compounds of fluorine and chlorine. It makes about 75 gallons per day, so I can make All I need for a week's worth of plant and drinking water in a few hours while I do other chores or relax.

I figured out a goal to shoot for as we fertilize our containerized plants. Here's what I came up with:

Nutrient Supplementation - Objectivity
Whenever we discuss what is or isn't an appropriate part of the methodology we use to make certain our containerized plants get all the nutrients essential to growth and good health, we would probably first want to be sure our objectives are on target. It's difficult to argue with the idea that our focus as we supply our plants supplemental nutrition should be on ensuring all the nutrients plants normally assimilate from the soil are A) IN the soil and available for uptake at all times, B) in the soil in a favorable ratio - that is to say in a ratio that mimics the ratio at which the plant actually uses the nutrient as closely as possible, C) at a concentration high enough to ensure no nutritional deficiencies, yet still low enough to ensure the plant's ability to take up water and the nutrients dissolved in that water won't be impeded (by a high concentration of solubles in the soil solution).

Unless your sense of how much the weight of a pot has changed, using the 'heft method' to tell whether a plant in the gritty mix needs water won't be all that easy, but since it's so forgiving of practices that would ensure you WERE overwatering if using more water-retentive soils it isn't that critical. It's difficult to over-water plants in a well-made gritty mix.

The 5:1:1 mix lends itself more readily to checking how dry plantings are by hefting them.

Al

Our water cooler is reverse osmosis here so that's a good thing! I am using Schultz's cacti and succulent fertilizer which isn't a 3:1:2 (or whatever Foliage Pro is) so I should maybe look at flushing my soil as you suggest for any nutrients left behind. The leaves sure are a lot greener looking with the fertilizer though!

I have two of the smaller size pots with leaf cuttings in them that I use to gauge if the pot is heavier or lighter. If they're the same weight I tend to water the plants too. We have been getting a lot of sun here lately so the Jades are really enjoying it too.

On a side note, when do you pull off the leaf of the leaf cutting?? When the new growth is big and established?

Here is a photo of my first successful propagating attempt.

The leaf will naturally shrivel away.

Josh

Oh good! Thanks! I thought I might have to pull it off.