conifers are trees ... and both never really stop growing ...

all have somewhat predictable annual growth rates ... and such can be found by googling the latin names and adding ANNUAL GROWTH RATE after such ...

your base problem is that you want something to grow fast to height.. and then stop ... and that is a non-sequester ... you cant have it both ways ...

if a pine grows one foot per year.. it will stay relatively smallish for decades ...

but something that grows fast .. say 3 to 5 feet per year ... will very quickly grow right past your max height requirements ...

see link for info in this regard ...

as to a lifetime of pruning.. well??? .. thats your call ... you can make YOUR PLANTS into anything YOU WANT ... you dont need our permission ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Try Pinus virginiana

Resin

Thanks for the feedback.

What about Virginia pine would make it any more suitable than any other southern yellow pines? Would it be easier to make it grow out more than up? I have Virginia pines on my property that are definitely taller than what I'd like for this area. They also definitely seem like ugly, junky trees that I normally try to get rid of, but maybe the shape I'm desiring is essentially junky.

Regular pruning isn't something I'd be opposed to, but I'd be curious what a loblolly (or longleaf or...) would look like when pruned aggressively to limit height.

As far as searching Latin names on the internet, I was hoping there might be some Asian or maybe European species I could look into that I'm not yet familiar with. I'm not really familiar with any non-native pines.

There are some deciduous trees I can think of that would pretty well fit my demands for moderate size and fairly fast growth (Chinese chestnut, callery pear, maybe some other fruit trees, maybe some willows, maybe paulownia...), but I want something evergreen and a a pine would be great if there's one that's either naturally comparable or that could be shaped easily enough into a decent form. If I can't find a suitable pine (or possibly other conifer), then I'll probably go with bamboo or a magnolia, but a pine would be great.

Thanks again.

There are dwarf cultivars of Pinus taeda that are actually rather "cute" but I don't think they've been popular at all on the commercial market. IIRC Camforest had them years ago...I mean, back in the JC Raulston era because he was trying to popularize them. Somewhere in a box I have their catalogs going back to 1990 or so. If I enter a time vortex that gives me 72 hour days, I'll try to go find them for you to confirm that...

You can find them at the NCSU arboretum website.

Pinus bungeana might be a good one. Really nice peeling bark. If you are in my area of NC you are welcome to check out my pines. I'm in the Winston-Salem area.

Carl

Japanese Black Pine is small and adaptable. It has a rather irregular shape, so may or may not fit for you.
The only other small pines I can think of are Pinyon Pines, but your area is most likely to wet and humid for them.

"I was hoping there might be some Asian or maybe European species I could look into that I'm not yet familiar with"

"Japanese Black Pine is small and adaptable"

Asian and European pines are in general very susceptible to pine wilt nematode, which doesn't make them a good long-term prospect.

Resin

David, thanks for the letting me know about dwarf loblolly pines and the NCSU arboretum website. I've been to the arboretum there several times, but it's been a long time.

Carl, I'd love to come see your pines and the lacebark, in particular. I'm less than an hour from Winston-Salem (to the west.) I would have e-mailed you directly, but that option didn't seem to be enabled for you, but maybe you can e-mail me.

scotjute, Japanese black pine looks like a potentially very good option. Thanks for mentioning it. I did a web search for it and found a Texas website that led me to another interesting evergreen, Prunus caroliniana. The Japanese black pine is even more interesting to me, though.

> Asian and European pines are in general very susceptible to pine wilt nematode, which doesn't make them a good long-term prospect.

To the extent that would be true, that leads me back to questions about how to manage native southeastern pines for less height. Does anyone have any experience pruning large pine species to affect their shape? I know simply growing pines in the open can have a tremendous height limiting effect, so perhaps I could space the trees in this area further apart, but my objective is to create a shaded area, so I definitely want to close the canopy.

I did plant a P. pinea about 6 years ago and a P. koraiensis about 3 years ago, and they've both survived this little amount of time and seemed healthy.