Hi momof2,

I'll attempt an answer for your questions - and NO question is dumb!

Adding compost: the soil will not build up and cover your plants because the compost decomposes and the nutrients go to your plants and the bacteria/insects/worms in your beds. That's why it's good to add it twice a year - it's like fertilizing, only better because it also adds organic matter to your soil which helps prevent compaction and erosion.

Moving plants: since you just put your plants in this spot as a "holding bed" last summer, it should be fine to lift them and replant right away. Make sure they are well-watered first and don't leave them out of the ground for any length of time (or pot them and put in the shade if you do).

Hope this helps :)

Balsam

I agree with Balsam. I use two to four inches of compost, usually spring or in the fall, sometimes both. I don't dig it in, I just put it on the top, and make sure you don't bury the crowns of the plants as this could damage the plants. The bugs and worms will do the work for you, so you don't have to dig it in. Since it breaks down and mixes with the soil, it really doesn't build up much.

I would also just pull the plants out and re-do the bed and flatten it...then put the plants back in right away. This way you can add more than just a couple of inches of compost and you can mix it in. Then just replant and your plants will probably be happier for it.

Happy gardening,

Sierra

Ditto on what Sierra said. I also don't mix the compost into the soil, as my garden is small and very tightly planted, so if I tried to fork in compost I would most certainly damage plants roots. So I just spread it as evenly as possible and avoid burying the plants, much as I would do with a mulch. If no rain is forecasted, I give it a shower with the hose and let Nature follow its course.

As for the lifting and replanting, in my climate I would tend to do that until the end of April, at the latest. If I could not complete it by then, I would wait until mid September roughly. I have learnt the hard way that transplanting things when temperatures are high really take a toll on plants, so now I have worked that scheme which seems to work *in my climate*. I understand this may not be the case with yours, and certainly is not the case with Balsam and Sierra, who have a much shorter growing season than I do and probably have rain during Summer, but this rule of thumb works well for me.

Eduarda

Thanks so much ladies for your help. Now that I know it won't build up I will continue adding compost.

As for moving the plants, I wonder if I should wait till they all come up to see what I have before I start digging them up? Some of my purple cone flowers (don't know how to spell echa whatever lol) are just starting to show leaves and so are some of my other plants. Maybe in a couple of weeks I'll have at least leaves on whatever is gonna come up and then I'll move them. Their is only two really bad areas and I think I'll fix them first because the other area has a bunch of seeds in it that I don't want to disturb. Maybe this fall I'll redo that bed. Thanks again!
Meghan

Meghan, I've read several of your posts and I have to say you are such an inspiration to me. I love your questions and your eagerness to learn. You are going to have the most amazing garden this Spring.

Just had to say I'm happy to see you in this forum.

Edna :-)

Edna, that is the nicest thing to say about one of the nicest, most eager gardeners on this forum. Thanks! Isn't it great to know that is what this is all about? Helping each other learn.

Can I just post a follow up question?
What do you do about the compost over the self-sowers or the things I direct sowed? Would the compost bury those seeds?

Edna, that is such a sweet thing to say and it is you all that have been my inspiration! I have learned so much that like I've said before all my friends actually 'think' I know something LOL and come to me for gardening answers. I'm always telling them of the things I learn from here but they never check it out for themselves which is their loss. I have many more qestions so I will keep them coming. Infact 3orangeboys has one of mine so I guess you can kill 2 birds (wish it was my MB!) with one stone! Thank you again and I certainly appreciate it!!
Meghan

Oh one other thing... yesterday I planted several packets of seed in my new beds and we had a torrential downpour last night! I didn't get to cover it with newspaper or pinestraw and now I'm afraid it washed them all away. What should I do?

"What do you do about the compost over the self-sowers or the things I direct sowed? Would the compost bury those seeds?"

Unfortunately, if you have already seeded, then you should wait till these plants have started to grow, the same with self-seeders. Some seeds need light to germinate so they can't be buried. Ammendments should be added and the area prepared before you seed. If these are perennials, wait till fall to add the compost to that area.

" yesterday I planted several packets of seed in my new beds and we had a torrential downpour last night! I didn't get to cover it with newspaper or pinestraw and now I'm afraid it washed them all away. What should I do? "

eeeeeeeeeee, this is a tough one. If you are lucky enough to have planted large seeds, you may be able to see them and find where they are. If not, there are a couple things you can do. Replant, if to many plants sprout up, thin them. Or wait and see if the plants sprout up where ever and transplant. The safest route is to reseed the area though.

Sierra

Well it downpoured again this afternoon! I think to be on the safe side I will reseed. I figure it's better to pull out sprouts if I have too many than to not have enough. The only thing is I planted a packet of heirloom single mix hollyhock seeds and they where almost $3 for the packet! I think they are safe though but it's the smaller seeds that where pretty much on the surface that I think have been washed away.
Meghan

So then, I am a little confused. I am trying to establish a population of annuals that self-sow. Annual poppies being one of them. So they would drop their own seeds, right? In that case, in the fall aren't you in danger of covering those seeds when they drop? Or, do you have to always just supplement your annual seed population with new packets after you have added compost.

I can't remember the post, but at one point there was a lot of discussion about it being easier just to direct sow the annual poppies rather than winter sow because they are so small and do so well just direct sowing. But, perhaps the compost needs of the garden argue for winter sowing them and transplanting when the compost is already down?
I'd love to hear what you all do.

Hi,

In the case of something like annual poppies self-seeding, just wait till the plants are up a bit, then gently add the compost close to but not right on top of the plants. That is what I do, but mostly, I reseed each year to make sure the colours don't all revert back and to ensure lots of plants.

Most annual poppies do not like to be transplanted, so IMHO I don't think its a good idea to winter sow in containers. I have had great success with transplanting from direct sown seed in the garden when they were just young plants though.

You just have to adjust how and when you put the compost on your garden, depending of what you are growing.

Sierra

Okay, now *I'm* confused. Here's the scenario. You have plants that self-sow. If you're supposed to add compost in the fall, when do you add it so as not to smother seeds that sow themselves during the summer/fall? Not ones that you're sowing, but the ones that seed themselves.

I've gotten around it so far by putting down compost in the spring only, after things have sprouted, but I know my flower beds would be better if I could put down compost in the fall. But I also don't want to lose my self-sowing flowers.

So what do you do?

Adding compost is easy. You only need to add compost as a
side dressing on top of the soil to existing flowerbeds two, three or even four times during the growing season.

Sprinkle it around the plants. Experience will teach you how much compost to add. If your soil is very poor, you can add more as needed to keep your soil in top condition, but keep in mind that a little goes a long way.

Never dig it in as this damages their shallow roots. The water they get from irrigation or rain will carry the nutrients they need down through the soil to their roots.

Keep your flowers (annuals or perennials) deadheaded to prevent them from going to seed as this will prolong their blooming and keep them in good form until the end of their growing period - THEN let them go to seed (from mid-August-November, depending upon how long the blooming/growing season is in your area).

In early spring many of the self-sown flowers will come up very early. If you follow the above rule, you will not need to add any compost until April or May, depending upon how early spring comes in your area. I do not thin out my flowers. I let them thin themselves as they do in nature.

The more flowers, the less you need to mulch or stake. I cram my beds full of flowers and try not to let any dirt show between the plants. There is always room for one more flower somewhere.
As for the rain-washed flower seeds, use a leaf rake and gently rake the seeded soil back over the area where you seeded them and then gently spray to settle them. There are tiny leaf rakes you can buy for working around established plants in flower beds and for de-leafing shrubs. They work great for this. (Even a child's toy leaf rake works pretty good in a pinch. You can get them for a buck at any Dollar store right now). This works very well. I have even done this with grass seed with excellent results.

If you have sown several kinds of flowers in one area and worry that now they are all mixed up, just wait until they grow big enough for you to identify them (bedding plant size) and then you can move them around where you want them, according to kind, size and colour, however you desire.

Flowers are very forgiving. Be patient. Give them time to get big enough and you will easily be able to move them where you want them. I've moved some plants over and over until I got them where I liked them and where they liked being.

It takes time to learn how to garden and where to plant flowers in your particular yard and what kinds of flowers do best in each spot, whether you are a beginner novice or long-time gardener, we are constantly learning new things. No two years have weather that are exactly alike and no two gardens are ever exactly alike either.

Most of all, calm down and have fun gardening. Don't make more work out of it than you need to. Enjoy yourself.
Often our mistakes turn out to be wonderful surprises!
~Annie

Thanks so much Annie. I love your tip about deadheading and not letting them go to seed until later in the year. Okay, so I will wait, see what comes up, then add the compost.

I also love to hear that you cram your plants in like that. I always read that you should plant your seedlings with a fair amount of space between. I always wonder how many people follow that rule. I have a very small garden, so I am always trying to get the most in my space.

what I find amazing is how hardy the weeds are that poke their way thru the 4 inches of compost. I am in the process of composting now. I have already put seven 1/2 yards on and now putting on the next 7.I have all kinds of things pushing thier way thru that first composting. like candy tuft and lupines, caledula . i weeded the beds and then put the compost over everything then used a tool and raked it gently off things like the monarda. I was worried about my lychimasia cuz it wasnt even showing signs of life and it is up now. last yr I had nasturtiams self sow themselves under 5-6 inches of compost. I am still very careful but those little guys can be very hardy!

Huh. I wouldn't have thought things would come up through a thick layer of compost (except weeds, of course). I guess I'll just wait till stuff sprouts and see what happens then.

BTW, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not "worried" about it. More curious than anything else. But I still feel that the concepts of "self-sowing" and "adding compost regularly" seem to be defeating each other.

I'm a lousy deadheader, and I'll be the first to admit it [g].

Ok...now I have a question...

I'd like to add compost...dumb question, but I have mulch *nuggets* on top of the beds. Do I add the compost on top of that and add new mulch?

Or, do you remove the nuggets, add compost, and put nuggets back?

thanks!

mmegaera: the concepts of "self-sowing" and "adding compost regularly" do defeat each other if you smother the seed. The 'weeds' that manage to grow up through several inches of compost/mulch are generally perennial weeds that grow from roots. If you mulch/compost heavily over annual weed seeds -- or desireable ornamental seeds -- you will inhibit them from germinating. I have some spaces where I let things self-sow, so I need to be stingy with any top-dressing until after the seedlings are growing strong.

andi956: in my experience, nuggets break down very slowly. Adding compost on top of them would encourage them to break down faster. Some people do remove the nuggets to add compost and then replace the nuggets, but that is labor-intensive. In a similar situation, I would try adding just a small amount of compost, evenly, over the nuggets (perhaps no more than 1/4" to 1/2" thick), then I would gently agitate the area with a garden rake or something -- hoping that the small amount of compost would fall down between/through the nuggets. See if that works, because then you'd get the best of both worlds. :)

Um, what's a ''nugget''? Never heard of the term in this situation before... and I doubt it's gold.

...Don

Andi, are you talking about pine bark nuggets? Those things take forever to break down. If you have access to pine straw (needles) I recommend that instead. It's lighter in weight, softer, easier to work with, and breaks down in a season or two.

I don't add compost to my perennial beds unless I'm planting something new. I do put a layer of pine straw in bare areas to help with moisture retention and keep the beds looking neater. It also slows down the growth of weeds and doesn't infringe on perennials reseeding or spreading.

Believe it or not, we're just a little north of you guys & we don't have access to pine straw-it's a shame, because I know it's a great mulch. I've used the large (silver dollar)pine bark nuggets under my Japanese maples last year-they still haven't broken down, so no need to renew them. I also use pine fines as mulch & to mix w/ other stuff as a potting medium.

This is the first year I've had a supply of homegrown compost & I've been using it to top off all my beds. I'm always adding something, & I have horrible, heavy clay soil. When I start most of the beds, I try to layer them-newspaper, compost, grass, etc. -they aren't noticibly higher than anywhere else, but I think this helps with planting new plants.
I plan to keep doing this, but I'm thinking about putting a dry-stacked stone border around some beds-it seems like I would have to build them up ALOT. Is there an easy way to do this, if you have existing perennials in the bed?

Thanks, everyone.

I guess I've only thought about using mulch to keep in moisture, protect roots, etc. I'd never thought of it as something to add nutrients. In fact, I got the pine bark nuggets (sadly, not gold) because they *wouldn't* break down.

So...am I hearing right that pine straw is better because it *does* break down and therefore adds nutrients?

I will add some compost and stir!

Thanks!

I have tons of oak leaves that I have put in piles to break down, but I think it will take forever and a year to do so. So...what do you use for compost to add to your beds? Do you just have a system going to compost your own? I read about adding compost...I know it's excellent for the garden...but I haven't got a clue of what to use. I have a big pile of mushroom soil...do I just sprinkle that over the beds?

Bama,

Regarding the oak leaves (that's what I have) You can do a couple things. You can run a little tiller over them or you can mix some grass clippings in with them. The tiller (or lawnmower, if you can maneuver it) will give you useable compost right away, the grass clippings/oak leaves mixture will heat up and will be ready in one month. It's awesomely fast if they've sat over the winter in the pile.

Be aware that if your pile is tall, there are a lot of oak leaves in the middle that will look just as good as the day you raked them. :( They repel water. You probably have Live Oaks, and they may be different, but the oak leaves up here are tough and do repel water.

One more thing -- and prissies should stop reading here -- urine will break those leaves down really, really fast. Two weeks max for the top layer. Then repeat. It's a little tricky getting it, but where there's a will, there's a way. I was able to convince my husband that only male urine could be used and that it was best if it could be after a beer or two. LOL!

Lime

andi956: good luck with the 'shakin'. :)

bamateacha: fresh homemade compost excites me as much as pretty flowers. lol! Most oak leaves are notorious for how leathery and slow they are to break down, but they make great compost. The keys to speeding up the process is to break down the leaves first if possible (mow over them, or run them through a shredder). Then you need to add a nitrogen source (aka 'green'), and moisture... and don't let your leave layers be too thick! But you asked "what do you use for compost...":

I've composted for more than 20 years, but it's small-scale and casual. I just use a system of open piles, and because they're small it's a "cold compost" (it never gets really hot). Most of my 'input' is kitchen scraps, coffee grounds (plus what I collect at work), garden waste, fallen leaves, occasional piles of cut grass (if I'm lucky :) and anything that I can beg from my friends. I love getting donations of whole pumpkins and stuff like that.

I'm ecstatic today because a guy at work told me he would bring me two bags of fresh horse manure! I've only been lucky enough to get a small amount once before. I *will* compost it before using it though, because otherwise all the seeds in it will sprout! Trust me, I experienced it. lol!

hahaha! what 'lime' said! I was afraid of shocking someone by saying it, but it's the truth. Nothing breaks down oak leaves faster than urine. You get your nitrogen and liquid all in one. :)

Party: I would be very careful with "fresh" horse patooty. it generally carries a lot of weed seeds that a horses innards don't break down like cows. I usually get aged cow patooty. at least 3 months. I bought a unit 7 1/2 yards from our local forest products and paid 160 dollars for it. then their prices went up because of gas prices. I called our local dairy 3 miles down the road and I paid $84 dollars for the same amount. your local extension service should have a list of dairy and chicken/horse farms that sell that stuff cheap. good luck!
^Tanya

Thanks for all the information. Lime and Party_Music, I will pass on the information to my husband. *wondering how far the neighbors can see into our property* :)

Party...I have a cold compost pile in a rubbermaid composter thingy where I add the coffee grounds, kitchen scraps, grass clippings, etc. It never really fills up so I think it breaks down pretty quickly and just feeds the big ol' jasmine that grows near it. That jasmine is so darn healthy looking.

We bought a shredder/chipper for all the leaves, but running the darn thing plays havoc on our sinuses. :(
I think I'll try the lawn mower idea. I'm too afraid of the tiller after watching my husband wrestle with it. Heck, I was pulling wagon loads of sod a week ago and all of a sudden I wasn't pulling it anymore...it was chasing me! I wound up going to the doctor 3 days later to x-ray my foot for a stress fracture. I'm back in business now though. :) But looking out at all those water oak leaves just depresses me. So much to try and mulch!

bamateacha: I just heard *it* referred to as 'golden showers'. lol! and I know what you mean about how happy/healthy the plants are that grow near an open compost pile.

We used a non-mulching mower to break the oak leaves up, and we found what worked best was to spread the leaves over the lawn in a reasonably even thickness (maybe 4", depending upon the mower height), then mow around the circumference of the circle... slowly decreasing toward the center of the circle. This allows you to run over the chopped leaves several times, and you'll end up with a nice large pile of chopped leaves in one spot.

If you have a mulching mower and bagger attachment, then the process will probably be much easier. :o)

Last summer I had extra bags of (mostly maple) leaves I had shredded, so I experimented with using them as a mulch (maybe 1" thick) in a few different areas. It worked great, and there's no sign of those leaf-bits now.

Don't let all those leaves depress you! you'd be surprised how quickly you'll wish you had MORE!

For the last couple of years I've raked leaves into large black garbage bags, poked holes in the bags and let them simmer for a few months to allow them to decompose naturally.

Since rain fall has been scant, I hose down the bags periodically to allow moisture in. The combination of water, plus the heat generated by the black plastic bags breaks down the leaves nicely.

Also, I frequently pick up the bags and give them a good shake to keep them aerated. These leaves make a nice additive to your soil after a few months of cooking.

Marilyn