Any particular conifer? Things do vary especially depending if it is monoecious or dioecious.

tj

Most conifers are very strongly outcrossing, they won't develop viable seeds if pollinated by their own pollen. So you'll need to get other individuals of the same species, so they can be cross-pollinated.

Resin

about some of my smallest plants producing cones.

==>> whats the answer if he is asking about the viability of seed on dwarf and mini selections???

i thought viable see from such.. was rather rare ...

is it for the same reasons mentioned ... or are there further reasons about why these genetic mutations dont put out viable seed??

ken

Sorry, when I said small, I ment young.
P. abies Pusch of course has been producing three yrs
P. mugo Zundert had cones when I got it,,,,has them now
and 1 yr. in ground,,,,P. resinosa Morel,,only 8" had flowers
All came as 1gal. grafts
Some plant discriptions state,,,matures at such and such feet. any relation
Thread I copied that from was about 15 ft tree,,,don't remember what
ron

it was from gallery side,,,nobody goes there,,ha,,?

i consider maturity a function OF WHEN IT CONES ... as in.. sexual maturity ...

not at some magical height ...

whats that all about ... lol

if i am not mistaken ... w/o looking it up ...pusch is a dwarf ... surely not consistent with the species ....

ken

ditto on maturity thing

pusch is sport or broom from acrocona

dwarf or sport or species,,,,I just thought plants producing
cones ,are producing seeds
what's up with that ?

ron

"==>> whats the answer if he is asking about the viability of seed on dwarf and mini selections???

i thought viable see from such.. was rather rare ... "

Same as for the species. If one dwarf cultivar is growing on its own, or in a multiple planting of the same cultivar, it won't produce viable seed. If it is planted together with different cultivars of the same species, then no reason it shouldn't produce some viable seed.

Resin

Oh! this is a very interesting post. I've been wondering about viable seeds many times.

Resin, how many specimens do you reckon are desirable to have together in order to get good pollination?

==>> Most conifers are very strongly outcrossing

I take that there are exceptions to this rule.. any example?

Ron: From what I read on other sites, some species start producing viable seeds at a certain age, let's say for example 20 years, although they can start producing cones since very young.

raulkender

"Resin, how many specimens do you reckon are desirable to have together in order to get good pollination?"

The more the better; it improves the chances of a good match in pollination time, and wind direction at pollination won't matter so much. To get really good pollination (90%+ viable seed), probably 50-100 or more. But 3 or 4 should give decent enough pollination.

"I take that there are exceptions to this rule.. any example?"

Pinus resinosa and Pinus pinea are two known examples; both have been through 'population bottlenecks' in their recent prehistory and have very limited genetic variation, which forces them to evolve greater self-compatibility. Wollemia is likely another example. Not many others though, it is rare.

Resin

raulkender, and Resin,,thanks for the answers

about brooms,,,if you believe H. Welch,,,they are never fertile,,,today we know that to not be true.
ron

ron ...

thats what i recall ... as most of our mini and dwarf are from brooms ...

not that i recall they are NEVER fertile ...

but that you TRY .... but germination is or can be limited ....

at least 2 people told me to grow them.. if i ever got cones ... and dax was probably one of them ...

never did though ...

also ... if memory serves.. maybe even from resin ... pollen is wind blown ... so the reason you need the big population ... is to insure the wind hits the appropriate receptive plant ... i recall a P abies going bonzo one year... but the days it was drifting pollen.. it was blowing straight off my property ...

i think my question back then.. was how someone could be selling red oak acorns ... with any certainty of the acorn actually being such.. and resin gave that same basic answer... you find an isolated large community ... and hope for the best ... he can either agree or correct my recollection ... as i will defer to him ...

ken

here is the next question:

imagine you have a nice grove of trees, let's say Sequoia sempervirens (just for a example). Then after good cross pollination, you collect 100 seeds from a single cone. You sow them and lucky enough get 10 good healthy trees... then so far these 10 trees come from the same female cone.
After a reasonable amount of years the new grove of 10 trees, isolated from the original one, produce pollen and plenty of seeds, would those seeds be viable? or not because they are equivalent to a single tree self-pollinating?
...

At a guess, you'd get some reduction in viability, but not a lot. The ten siblings share a common seed parent, but (assuming open-pollinated) are likely to have different pollen parents, i.e., are half-brothers. So there'll still be a moderate level of genetic variation.

Resin