Hi Ken,

The email which was sent out to over 10,000 gardening enthusiasts across the world is not intended to be seen as spam. Its intent is to raise awareness across the gardening world about the plants that many of us here on this forum enjoy so much.

With the idea that the next time you or someone else here take the time to go on Photobucket and upload your photos of your great plants and share your beautiful garden that maybe in the future you'll see an even greater response from other new conifer fans. Also, there is an opt-out that will remove your email if you choose.

Thanks
Steve

YES! I attributed it to someone getting emails from GW. Now I know I'm not the only one. My inbox has been 100% spam free until today.

Thanks for bringing it up. I'll write a complaint and maybe we all should.

Dax

Where you get this information Steve? How did my email get chosen?

Dax

I was trying to figure out where it came from too. I figured ti was one of the many nurseries that I have signed up for communications from, but I wasn't familiar with the nursery.

At the bottom it mentions wholesalers, is it a public nursery, or for wholesalers only? What good is sending out advertising if they are wholesalers ONLY.

I understand that we are all plant ppl, but I think GW should have a place where we can say "Yes" please give my address to related businesses that I may be interested in OR "NO" Do NOT give my address out! They could have and should have gone about this in a more professional manner.

Eliot

Steve,

What happened to the conifer garden that was going great guns.

Give us and update...Any thoughts about about later additions...what lived and of course were there any fatalities.

Dave

Dave,

Thanks for asking Dave, It's been tough to judge plant performance based on this year's weather in TN. The weather has been really mild and rainfall abundant, not exactly typical for our summers. The garden is about 1/2 done, with over 100 plants added this year and only two fatalities. All of my Abies are doing well, most not on Abies firma rootstock, but again the weather has been very forgiving.

The current look is half browned out grass and plants on the other side but here's the best photo currently available that give a little perspective.

You're lucky Steve . . . I'd be happy as hell to walk around a place with such nicer sized specimens. It's tight.

I guess I wasn't used to spam. My tolerant level was comprised without giving it much thought. Never once have I seen spam.

I guess I am still sort of mad about it. Sure I read it to the very end but if one guy does it who says he's not going to give the information to another person?? I didn't see anything about that.

Well, I'll have to think about this.

------ Yeah, still take care man

Dax

Dax,

I am sure Russell's Nursery e-mail (which I did not recieve) was not intended as SPAM (but not sure what else you would call an e-mail that came unsolicited) and they would drop you from their list if asked. BUT...they are a top notch operation, run by really good people....maybe they are trying to udjust & change to a nursery market that really is in bad shape currently...I don't know.
But their new website is quite impressive, in paticular when you compare it to their old one...they know their stuff (contact T. Buckholtz or L. Stanley if you need to confirm they exist....conifer geeks in OR know who they are).

Schmoo

Ken, did this email actually come through GW, or did you get it because you're an ACS member? I'll add a vote for Russel's -- wonderful family with a terrific, well-reputed nursery, and very active in the Western Region ACS.

I just had an interesting conversation with Jared, an account representative from Russel Nursery. He confirmed everything that I had suspected since this started this morning, and in fact told me a lot more than he was supposed to I'm certain before he realized that I was on a fishing expedition for information.

Russel is in fact a WHOLESALE ONLY nursery. Jared told me in no uncertain terms that they WILL NOT sell direct to me. So IMHO there is no reason for them to be soliciting us, the retail customer, since they refuse to sell to us direct! The list of "10,000 gardening enthusiast" who were spammed this morning were NOT compiled by Russel Nursery, but by an outside individual. That outside individual is also the same person who is advertising for them on his personal website/blog/whatever else he has on there where he talks about his "Gardening Years" and shows many great pics of the $50,000 garden in which he put in this spring and summer at drastically reduced prices. Jared also told me that much of his stock came from them, Russel Nurseries specifically! He may have a legit business that he can use to purchase direct, OR there may be a sense of favoritism going on there. I really don't care one way or the other... That's not why I'm upset. It because he has taken or stolen my email address and sold it for personal gain.

I figured that since my information was stolen, sold or traded for personal profit, and then made public that it was my duty to make this sneakily obtained information public as well. If you have any questions please call Russel Nursery @ 503-678-2536 and ask for Jared. He was a great help.

This was not done for any personal profit, only enlightenment for the "10,000 Gardening Enthusiast's" who are as upset about being taken advantage of like me.

If you were unable to decipher the double speak and still wondering who sold off our email address for personal profit or gain please email me.

Eliot

"over 10,000 gardening enthusiasts across the world" (my emphasis)

I guess Britain isn't part of the world?? . . . at least, I didn't get it ;-)

Resin

Resin-
You were lucky not to get violated and have your email address stolen and sold! Brings up an interesting question, did anyone outside of North America get this, or did he just take the emails of ppl with access to Russel's plants?

Interesting...

Eliot

I didn't receive anything from Russel's here in Kansas City.

I get spammed about 10 times a day mostly from illegal drug company's.

My next move is to change my email address since they never unsubscribe you when asked to.

Dave

Eliot, I got the Russell spam as well (shown below for reference). It is unquestionably an advertisement, designed to raise awareness of the nursery.

So from your conversation w/Russell Nursery, Russell purchased or was given a list of email addresses by "stevemy" from this forum, who presumably got them via a scraper tool applied to Gardenweb?

And this stevemy happens to be a big client of Russell Nursery...

I would think we should contact Gardenweb about this, as I presume that collecting emails -- and then spamming said Gardenweb users, or facilitating such an act -- violates their terms of service.

Also, sounds like Russell Nursery should not be engaging in such a transaction, *presuming* they had full knowledge of how the emails were obtained.

-James

-----[Pasted spam email below]----------

Greetings from Russell's Nursery
Established 28 years ago, we are a 220-acre nursery, located in Aurora, Oregon. Our location provides us with an unparalleled growing environment: rich, deep, sandy loam topsoil, and outstanding climatic conditions, with abundant rainfall and sunshine. Our field-grown operation combines these advantages with hard work and years of growing expertise, to produce a truly incredible line of quality plants that can be admired and enjoyed, 365 days a year.

As this year comes to an end, we are excited to announce the beginning of several new additions at Russell's Nursery that will become favorite resources for gardeners all over the world.
Russell's Nursery Photo Blog

To share with you all of our great plants, we're introducing a photo blog that will both provide thorough plant descriptions and numerous stunning high resolution photos of the plants we grow.
Just like plants, this blog will be a living thing, having photos and description added each week, and we hope it will become one of your favorites and share it with other gardeners.
Russell's Nursery You Tube Channel
We know there isn't much gardening television out there, but we're going to change that. We're introducing a full series of videos about gardening and plants especially conifers and Japanese maples.

From "plant-ographies" telling and showing the great features of a particular plant to tips in the garden, this You Tube channel will be your video source for great gardening content on demand.
Russell's Nursery on Twitter
A great way for us to keep you informed of exciting things in the gardening world and here at the nursery and for you to keep us informed at what's going on at your nursery or in your garden.

We will also be offering exclusive offers on Twitter for our wholesale customers.
Russell's Nursery on Facebook

Add us as friends on Facebook and you'll be able to send Russell's Nursery plants to your friends using the Plants from Russell's Nursery app.
Inviting You...
In addition to all these exciting elements, we're also inviting the public to visit either of our display gardens located in Aurora, OR (where our nursery is located) or Franklin,TN where we have a new display garden for those who live closer to the east coast, contact us to schedule a visit.

For three decades, Russell's Nursery has provided quality field grown plants. Now with these new features, we will share with you and gardeners across the world the exciting plants we love and hope you will too.
Thank You
Russell's Nursery
503-678-2536
Contact Us
Subscribe to Our Newsletter!
Keep receiving our monthly newsletter and get great plant photos and videos, news about local nurseries in your area, and more great gardening content.
Save For our wholesale customers we have recently introduced plant packages that offer a great value and selection for you to add to your retail nursery. Offering a "Traditional", "Sampler", "Rare and Unique" and "Hardy" each offers a unique assortment of hand selected plants from our soil to yours.

---[end of pasted SPAM email from Russell's Nursery]---

I did not get that Spam, but at least it was about conifers and gardening, a delightfull subject.

Lighten up, it could have been much worse, and this could be the beginning of getting 1 to 6 spams a day about enlargement, drugs and other advice I certainly do not need from all over the world, some certainly phishing for my financial ids. Let's hope your Email addresses do not get into those other hands.
Take it easy! My spams started when I accidentally clicked on a loan company advertisement on CNN.

Bernd

I got this email from the Russel's Company also, but I don't see it as spam, it's fantastic information about a quite impressive nursery.

I'm not too far from RN. Maybe I should drop some of my SPAM off at their place when I pass by tomorrow? How would they like that?

Rain2Fall
Spam2Toss

Surprise! I didn't get the spam. It's funny to me that people are so upset because they got a simple email advertisement for a garden nursery. I get stuff much more annoying than that all the time either by mail, phone or email. If you don't like it delete it, put a block on the address and don't buy from them. Obviously there are people that would like to use information to promote their business or themselves. I wouldn't do it but I'm not the shameless self promoter type. Some people are much more aggressive and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Those are the people that make stuff happen. If you think something was done against the forum rules turn it into to Gardenweb and let them deal with it.

To clarify, I don't think anyone feels the single email itself is a big deal. We all get spam every day, and all else equal, I'd rather be spammed by a gardening place :-)

I don't know the specifics, so I can only speak in hypotheticals, but if a forum member here helped himself to our email addresses in a manner that was unethical or illegal, then I do feel a little ideologically violated, if you will. Some things you just don't do.

Again, worse has happened. But what matters bigger-picture is that if more people were to start harvesting our emails for personal gain without issue, then this quickly could reach a point where spam could be a problem. It's very easy to spread email addresses around, and only takes a few rogue members in any setting.

We all make mistakes, and this isn't a disaster, but if this was a sub-rosa no-no, I do feel it should be dealt with quickly as a protective policy. I dropped a note to Gardenweb last night as well.

-James

Didn't get the spam (should I be insulted) but did go check-out the site. I immediately recoginzed their blog as being from one of our own.

I believe he should have, at a minimum, asked permission to send you information from a third party. If he sold or made money off the email addresses...that's plain wrong!

Barbara

To add some further clarity to this topic. I'm am handling a very large marketing campaign for a client who through an existing email contact list and through numerous other metric email data selection sources sent an information based email.

Now, I also happen to be a huge plant fan and gardener and have participated in these forums for several years on the GardenWeb forums, but I can assure you no members' emails were culled from GardenWeb. Maybe that combination is what led to the assumption of where these contacts were gathered, but as I stated that is not the case.

Thanks for clarifing stevemy!

There are a couple people on this board that need to chillax a little. I got spam email for Xanax the other day if anyone is interested.

I'm already takin' chill pills...but thanks for the offer!

I got the email. It's like others have said, the email isn't what's upsetting. It's the CREEP that would collect and then sell my email address. In my opinion, it shows a complete lack of ethics.

Steve needs to get a clue. SPAM is not defined by the intention of the spammer. It's defined by the perception of the recipient and/or by law. In many states, SPAM is illegal. In many states, a person who receives SPAM can recover money damages from the sender. Check your state laws and case law.

Rain2Fall
SpamFighterForeverr

I don't think the ACS would allow for it either. If I start getting spam emails in the future about anything, it's gonna upset me.

I have of course "been" at every single nursery probably there is on the internet so my data may have been collected but I have no idea what's going on right now, still.

For anyone not able to understand what to me is a very simple concept of having lived over 10 years without a single spam email, should put things into perspective a little better.

Now I won't comment anymore. It's just gonna stir the pot.

Dax

I don;t think the intent was ever there to spam anyone.

For me interesting information concerning a nursery and how they do business.

Just read it and if it upsets you...take a chill pill or block it...not a big deal. To much to do about nothing IMO.

Dave

OK. No one recieved death threats, porn, insurance scams, money laundering schemes or invitations to buy illegal drugs. You recieved an informational e-mail from a vendor who's not even asking for your money! You have an opt-out option if that bothers you. So where's the beef?

And do you think for a minute that your activities on the internet are private? ANY company can pay money to get lists of people who visit particular types of web sites, buy certain products, or have interests in certain subjects. I get dozens of e-mails and catalogs every month from companies I have never done business with. The reason is because my interests are known and recorded. Yours are too.

Steve told you the list did NOT come from this web site. I know him personally and he's a great guy and a straight shooter. The fact that a lot of regulars here did not get the e-mail is proof he's telling the truth. I think people are over-reacting...

So he's calling on his friends to come here and make excuses for him? Didn't you read the part where I explained that INTENT of the spammer is irrelevant?

Guys, I can see both sides of the issue.

I agree that Steve isn't any worse than other spammers, but that's kind of the point: I'd rather not have to think of him in the same league as "other spammers". I still don't, but the fact that he spammed me doesn't help. I'm disappointed in Steve.

Steve says that Russell Nursery got the emails to spam. However, per Eliot's earlier post, Russell Nursery said that Steve procured the email list.

Do you trust Eliot, or Spammin' Steve? I don't know, but forgive me for not immediately trusting the guy who just spammed me.

I've ordered from online nurseries, but I use a different email address from the one registered with GardenWeb. Steve's spam email came to the GardenWeb email. I may have used it for something nursery-related a long time ago, but I don't know for sure.

If Steve is being cryptic about where he got our emails, I can only hope that he doesn't sell them to someone else as well. This is hardly the end of the world, but I'd hoped that a fellow plant buff wouldn't spam, and I just hope that this stunt is not pulled again.

Maybe I made a big deal out of "nothing", but that same morning I also found that one of my businesses credit cards had been compromised (still in my possession) but several transactions had been run on it. So I had to spend several hours rectifying that situation to keep things from being shipped to Jang Wang in Singapore at my expense.

I see that it doesn't bother some of you, thats fine, I respect your opinions and feelings, but PLEASE respect ours as well, the ppl who it has upset or offended.

I never said I had a problem with Russel Nursery, and I agree with Dave that I found it interesting, and possibly beneficial. But where my problem DOES lie, is the improper use and possibly unethical obtaining of my email address and using it in a way that I have NOT approved, and agreed to in a manner to benefit, whether financially or otherwise, the offending party. I never said WHAT he got for his services, but he got something, other wise he wouldn't have gone to all the work and effort.

I also did a little searching and rain2fall is correct for the most part, while it has NOT been made illegal by any legislative bodies, all the courts where it has been taken have ruled in favor of the plaintiffs, NOT the spammers! However, the only way to stop it is in Civil Court, NOT Criminal Court by forcing them to pay up.

Many Spammers have had to pay out BIG in Civil Court for their offenses. So in the future, I suggest to the offending parties to send emails to ppl who have registered to receive communications from them, which would NOT be considered SPAM.

I would also be interested to know where the offending party obtained our contacts since he claims that they were not culled from GWeb. Did anyone understand the first para of his 2nd explanation? He IS correct though when he said that it was easy to assume that he had gotten them from here, that's where the evidence pointed. He hasn't been active on the forum for some time that I have seen, and all of a sudden he shows up with a ridiculous and suspicious excuse for his actions.

My concern is that a situation like this could sour the opinions or upset many of the knowledgeable and heavy contributors into leaving which could lead to the overall decline of what is a very informational and helpful resource to me and many others.

I'm not trying to start a war, I just wanted ppl to know what I had uncovered and judge for themselves.

Eliot

PS-James, I'm in the same boat as you. I only use my email on here for GWeb, and personal communications with other forum members. Which begs the question, did I communicate privately w/Steve at some point? Not that I recall, but I can't say for certain one way or the other.

I prob. over reacted...I've been known to do that...especially on a day when I prob. should have just stayed in bed b/c it went from bad to worse. I'm not saying I don't have a prob. with what he did, that I just may have made a bigger deal than necessary. BUT I don't think my actions were any worse than the actions that lead to this.

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" ~Sir Isaac Newton

Here is a link that might be useful: Spam and the Law

Hey amidheliot

Your quote..."I prob. over reacted...I've been known to do".

Your comments were fine...you don't hold a candle to me regarding the over-reacting department.

The bottom line... all of us are going to get spammed sooner or later. In the case of most of us... sooner then the 5 years wait Dax had. Right now I am in a hand to hand battle with the drug and sexual enhancement spammers. I don't even take any kind of drugs and never looked at any web site regarding these things. So sooner or later by clicking on some interesting subject matter your privacy is compromised and the emails start coming. A lot of these web sites are deceptive and their only interest is to get your email and pass it on to a party who is paying for it...and before you know it you have been scammed

Time for a new email address for me.

I don't know what Steve's intentions were if he is to blame for this. I was a one time thing that I am sure he will not revisit the opportunity to get involved again.

It's time to forgive and forget and get on with conifer subject matter.

Dave

Again, I suggest that each person who receives spam check their own state laws. Spamming is illegal. The following link is a useful place to start.

Here is a link that might be useful: State Spam Laws

Spam Filter? Perhaps I got spammed too?
I do not read the spam addresses and titles anymore because my Road Runner Webmail sorts them out into a separate folder and I delete the sorry bunch from there, and then delete the Deleted folder content.

Even the best SPAM filter probably wouldn't have worked initially, in this case, for most of us. I get lots of emails from nurseries just like the one I got from Russell's Nursery. I want the ones I normally get. I don't want the ones from an unethical company like Russell's. The only difference in the emails would be the ethics of the companies, and SPAM filters aren't able to detect that. Sure, I can block them now, but who knows where else my email address went. Trusting people without good ethics to guard my email address is not my idea of safe.

I think Steve needs to either tell us he had nothing to do with this (unlikely) or make a public apology to us and promise to never do it again. Right now, I see him the same way I would someone who drove by my house and threw all their trash in my yard!

"...but I can assure you no members' emails were culled from GardenWeb."

I don't know this guy and I've never meet him but he is probably telling the truth. I doubt this is where he got the email list. There were several regulars (including myself) that were not spammed. Sounds like maybe someone has too much time on their hands and isn't going about business the right way. Although I don't see this email really as selling anything...??? Unless he is trying to find retail nursery owners (or become one).

The conifer forum is a pretty small group with non-conifer people jumping in and out for simple questions. Anyone with their brain plugged in would know this would get around and backfire.

I think Steve would do himself good to come on here with a new thread and be honest with everyone with what he is doing. Tell us what he is trying to do with his website, the emails, etc. Right now the whole situation makes everyone uneasy. Maybe at least email someone and let them tell the group.

Again I don't see what the big deal is but at the same time I would like to know what is going on....