Stunning!

Resin

What is chir pine ??? Please use botanical name.
Clement

Thank you.

Very a super plant.But no possible in Belgium.
Clement

It's so fluffy...I want to hug it. lol

how long until cone production?? does it look like a healty tree because I have no idea how they look in nature?? Any thoughts

osprey

Hi Osprey,

Looks very healthy. I'd guess it'll start coning some time in the next 5-10 years.

Resin

Some more pics of my chir pine (January 23) after the snow storm we got, and continues snowing. So far more that 15"

Not very happy....
enjoy!!

osprey

Guess that's more snow than you usually expect to get?

Resin

If it has survived -15oC it must be from the coldest
part of the species range.Its listed as zone 9 but as
its survived -15oc it could grow in Z7. It would be
nice to get hold of seed from the more cold hardy
origins.

Is the wooden bear from earlier pics hibernating under the snow?

Resin, I'm not sure. Some people (50+) say that weather is going back to normal. According to them, that was a common/reasonable amount of snow. Some people remember more than 50 cm of snow in a single day, but I'm talking about 50 years ago.

Torreya, this year the tree survived -17C, but you can see the foliage coloration. I will be happy to share some seeds whenever it produces cones.

Tcharles, yes, the bear is hibernating under the snow, at least I think so..

Here is one more pic of my windbreak (Pinus brutia) and my Deodar cedar (front-far left). The P brutia are about 6-7 m tall, but the one on the right is 10 m tall.

and my 2 m tall deodar cedar

osprey

Looks like Z3 Quebec (i.e. way north of where I am...)

It's large enough to produce cones, and you may be able to accelerate the process with some nitrogen. But if it is the only one, forget about viable seeds. You'll get very few through self-pollination, and those that germinate are unlikely to live long or well.

Yes, looks like Quebec, and I wish I can be there, at least for a couple of days.

Pinetree, yes, that is what I thought. I will see if the three trees on campus (NMSU) have some cones. However I cannot ensure they are as hardy as the one I have because they don't get temps below -10 very often .

osprey

Hi Ospreynn; Keep a lookout for caterpillars and little bubble nests in the spring. That would be the PineSawFly
and the Spittle bug (makes a bubblenest the size of a M&M)
I think I got info on them on line, from the Univ. of Pa.
Just type in the names on line in the (search box).
I had a lot of damage to a Mugo Pine while we were away for a few days. When we got home there was a thousand caterpillers on the Pine. All the needles were gone and it didn't survive. You have to look close for the Spittle bug bubbles. They told me to wait until they hatched to spray. There are larve inside the bubble. I didn't listen and blasted them with a pump sprayer. Glad I did, because if they hatched they might have moved to all my plants. They were even in my Blue Spruce trees.
Maybe someone can add to this.
LOU said that.

I am removing my Pinus mugo 'Big Tuna' due to sawfly damage. This particular P. mugo is a magnet to the beasts. I have a Pinus mugo 'Sherwood Compact' (aka 'Teeny') not 5' from the 'Big Tuna' and the nasty little devils never touch it. My 'Big Tuna' is pretty rattly looking now so I am just going to pull it and plant something else.
Mike

Hawk,

I wonder if you saw some of those bubbles on the pics. Otherwise I'm lost..... or is this species prone to those guys.

osprey

Thanks Mike : I thought I was the only one with this problem.
Ospreynn: I forgot!!! It is a Red Headed Pine Saw Fly.
The Caterpiller (Larve) is about 1 in. long. It has a red head with a pale to bright yellow body and 4 to 6 black
marks down the back.
The other is a Pine Spittlebug. I got some of the info from Ohio State University.
I didn't mean to alarm you but to use the info to be aware
of these critters. See if you can get all the info on the internet.
I have about 30 different evergreens; I planted from young trees, that I could have lost. They are from 6 to 10 feet tall now.
LOU said that !!!!!

Hi Again Ospreynn : Sorry I missed your last message.
I didn't see any of these critters or bubblenests
in your photo's .
Didn't mean to shake you up. I just wanted you
to be aware of their being and to give you the info.
I could have avoided the problems that I had, if I had this info before time.
Now you know what to lookout for.
Sorry again, if I upset you.

Mike:I think you should treat the soil, before you plant anything,
so to be sure you are rid of them.
LOU

Nice!!

Whence came your -17C tree??

I've never seen one do that well even in z8!

I'd LOVE to get one that hardy.

Lou,
Do these critters live in the soil? I guess I've never done any research on them, or their habits, previously. Two years ago was the first time I had ever seen them and now I've had them every year. I spray them with a 50/50 mix of rubbing alcohol and water with a couple of teaspoons of Ivory dish soap added - kills the little buggers really fast. The spray is a contact poison so I have to spray really well to make sure I hit them all.

What do you recommend I use to treat the soil? I am not planting a pine in that spot again, FWIW.
Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike: here is an article for you. -LOU
USDA Forest Service
Forest Health Protection, Southern Region


Redheaded Pine Sawfly, Neodiprion lecontei (Fitch)



Importance. - The redheaded pine sawfly is an important pest in young, natural pine stands and plantations. Heavy defoliation can lead to growth loss and tree mortality. The redheaded pine sawfly occurs in southeastern Canada and throughout the eastern and southern United States. Loblolly and longleaf pines are preferred hosts, although shortleaf, pitch, and slash pines are also attacked.

Identifying the Insect. - The mature larva is easily identified by its bright red head. The body is about 1 inch (25 mm) long and pale whitish yellow to bright yellow in color, with 4 to 6 rows



of black spots on the body. The cylindrical cocoon is reddish brown and about 1/2 inch (12 mm) long. The adults resemble flies. They have four transparent wings and vary from '/5 to 2/5 inch (5 to 10 mm) in length.

Identifying the Injury. - Larvae feed in colonies containing a few to over a hundred larvae. Larval feeding generally occurs on larvae feed on the outer portion of the needles. The unconsumed portions of needles have a strawlike appearance. Older larvae strip branches of all foliage and sometimes feed on tender bark when foliage is scarce.

Biology. - This sawfly overwinters in the larval stage within cocoons located in the soil or duff. Adults emerge in the spring. The female lays approximately 120 eggs in rows on the needles of a single twig. Each egg is deposited in a small pocket sawed into the edge of the needle. Eggs hatch in about 2 to 4 weeks, and larvae feed gregariously for about 4 weeks. Larvae then drop to the ground and spin their cocoons. In most of the South, there are two generations per year, but in Florida there are usually three.

Control. - Outbreaks occur periodically and tend to subside after 1 to 2 years of heavy defoliation. Natural factors and climatic conditions help control populations. A polyhedrosis virus is being used to control outbreaks of the redheaded pine sawfly. Chemical insecticides also may be used.

Larvae.
Photo by John L. Foltz


Larvae feeding on Virginia pine..
Photo by Gerald Lenhard


Taken from Insects and Diseases of Trees in the South, USDA Forest Service - Southern Region, Protection Report R8-PR 16, June 1989




The Bugwood Network
College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences/Warnell School of Forest Resources
The University of Georgia - Tifton, GA USA




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UGA Home UGA CAES Home UGA Entomology UGA Forestry

Questions and/or comments to: bugwood@arches.uga.edu
Page last modified: June 23, 2000

Hi Again Mike: Here is one on the Spittlebug.
I hope Ospreynn is still in here, to see this.
Haven't heard any more comments from anyone.
Maybe they all ran out to check their trees.
I'll try to find out what is good to spray on the soil.
Someone else might know and tune in.
Thanks for sharing the info . Lou

Species: Aphrophora parallella (Say)
Distribution: Eastern half of North America
Hosts:
Conifers of all sizes; prefers eastern white,
Scotch and jack pines.
Damage:
Heavy infestations may stunt or kill shoots as
the feeding activity clogs the tree vascular system.
Black sooty mold grows on the spittle
which drops onto needles and branches. This
is the most common damage caused by this
pest. The feeding wounds are also sites for
infection of various fungi, especially Diplodia
tip and stem blight.
Description and Life Cycle:
This pest is most commonly recognized when
the nymphs make the bubbly spittle masses
on small branches of conifers.
Pine spittlebugs overwinter as eggs inserted
in dead twigs or slits cut into the bark of living
stems. The eggs hatch in early May and the
young nymphs migrate to the tender one-yearold
growth. After inserting their mouthparts, the
nymphs begin to produce the frothy spittle from
their anus. The spittle apparently protects the
nymphs from predators, parasites and dry
weather. As the spittle drops onto lower
branches, black sooty mold may cover the
needles. The young nymphs are yellowish with
black markings; older nymphs become more
brown. Several nymphs may join together in
one large spittle mass and the nymphs constantly
abandon old masses to make new ones.
The nymphs mature by July and soon leave
the spittle in order to molt into the winged adult.
The adults do not form spittle masses but
quickly jump and fly if disturbed. The adults are
mottled gray with two faint parallel lines running
across the wings.
Control Hints:
Few cultural and biological controls exist for
this pest but minor populations rarely need
treatment. If heavy populations occur or if pine
tip blight disease is a common problem, insec-
Pine Spittlebug
Pine spittlebug spittle mass.
Newly emerged pine spittlebug
adult.
ticides should be applied for nymphal control
or adult control.
Option 1: Cultural Control - Sanitation and Thinning
- Remove all old, dead branches which
are attractive for egg laying by the females.
Opening up the plantation by thinning and weed
control to improve air flow can also reduce the
populations of this pest.
NOTE: Disclaimer - This publication may contain pesticide recommendations that are subject to change at any time. These
recommendations are provided only as a guide. It is always the pesticide applicators responsibility, by law, to read and follow
all current label directions for the specific pesticide being used. Due to constantly changing labels and product registrations,
some of the recommendations given in this writing may no longer be legal by the time you read them. If any information in
these recommendations disagrees with the label, the recommendation must be disregarded. No endorsement is intended for
products mentioned, nor is criticism meant for products not mentioned. The author and Ohio State University Extension
assume no liability resulting from the use of these recommendations.
All educational programs conducted by Ohio State University Extension are available to clientele on a nondiscriminatory basis
without regard to race, color, creed, religion, sexual orientation, national origin, gender, age, disability or Vietnam-era veteran
status.
Revised 05/2002; © D.J. Shetlar
Option 2: Chemical Control - Insecticide Sprays
- Applications of registered insecticides should
be made in late May and early June when the
spittle masses are noticed. The adults can also
be targeted for in mid July, after 90% of the
spittle masses have been abandoned.

sandyhill,

I got my tree from a local nursery in Las Cruces, NM. I ignore the origin of the seeds..

osprey

Ospreynn: Sorry I interrupted your chat with the girls.
I promise never to do that again.
LOU

Don't worry LOU, it's good to be informed........

osprey

treelover3: I haven't had much time to look for a soil treatment, for you. Try the Internet "Google " Put in "Pine Saw Fly, soil treatment" and see what you can find out. They mentioned soap a lot but
I don't know about using it to treat the soil. I have used Diazanine in the past but I think it is banned now. If not you still have to be careful with wildlife.
Let me know how you make out.
LOU

That's a lot of warning considering the pest doesn't live in New Mexico.

You're right Botann . I guess Southern US doesn't include
New Mexico. But it would give other folks something to be aware of. Like I said before , if I had this info
beforehand, I would not have had a problem, with my trees.
LOU

Who said the pest doesn't live in New Mexico.

Guess no one heard me ! I asked " who said the sawfly doesn't live in New Mexico " ?????
Lou

Any new update of your chir ( Roxburghii Pine ) ??