That's quick!

Did you keep any of the cones?

Resin

Hi Resin,

I didn't keep these cones. I'm also in the process of germinating P. menziesii, P. contorta, P. ponderosa, and possibly others. Should I think about keeping the cones?

nice pics, thank you

Germinated late July:
Left to Right

(Broom Seeds from Jerry Morris)
Pinus flexilis
Picea pungens
Pinus aristata

Dax

Dax,

That looks awesome. Thanks! I'm going to try some broom seeds too, hopefully they'll turn out.

P. flexilis, P. contorta, P. menziesii, P. ponderosa (broom)

contorta

menziesii

ponderosa (broom)

the broom

more flexilis sprouts

I wonder if this one will develop a great red color like some of the mature trees I saw this summer

If everyone is posting their pictures of their pines, I guess I will post some of my Sugar Pine Seedlings. About a week and a half or two weeks old:

Ryan

sluice, do you happen to have some seeds left of flexilis and contorta? If you are interested we can trade some seeds!!

osprey

Sluice, I too would like to trade some if there are any left. Thanks, Jason.

osprey, I sent you an email via gardenweb, let me know if you don't get it

jasoncoco, can you send me an email via gardenweb, or let me know your email address?

thanks!

Potting up some of the seedlings this morning. Here's what a few of them looked like after removing them from the soil.

This one has just sprouted.

A bit longer.

A longer one. I'm amazed at how much energy is stored in the seed, and once sprouted how far the tap root extends deeply into the soil.

It looks like the needles are starting to come out of the seed coats.

Here's another update for the limber pine, douglas fir, and lodgepole pine seed germination.

P. flexilis, the needles are farther out of the seed coats.

More red

This seed seems weird, like the needles are sprouting first? In the other seeds, the root tissue came out first, and the needles were last.

Pseudotsuga menziesii (collected Sept. 20, sown Oct. 5, germinated Oct. 11)

Pinus contorta (collected Sept. 20, sown Oct. 5, germinated Oct. 11)

The germination rates are probably not as high as they would be if the seeds had been pretreated (e.g. cold stratification).

So the Douglas Fir does need cold stratification, correct? I've got a good amount of them and I've heard conflicting advice about how to germinate them.

Thanks,

Ryan

"This seed seems weird, like the needles are sprouting first? In the other seeds, the root tissue came out first, and the needles were last"

The seed split at the wrong end, and the root is expanding, pushing the cotyledons out. Normally, it wouldn't survive, but if you split the seed shell off and get the root tip into the soil, it might survive. Only 'might' though, as the cotyledons are no longer able to gain sustenance and protection from desiccation from the endosperm. I've seen this happen once or twice and not been able to save the seedlings.

Resin

Resin should I be at all concerned with the seedlings in the above photos allowed to stay in my unheated greenhouse all winter (cold here) or would it be advised I surround my trays with the same insulation you see beneath them. And if still all this could pose jeopardy, would it be advisable to place a heat mat below that would keep the soil at say 40F or 4.5C.

Thanks,

Dax

P.s. You'll see they germinated about the first and second week of August so are now only two months old. I've looked at the buds and they still show green and no hard shell/bud sheath ....yet. Thanks again!

Ryan,
I've also heard conflicting advice on Douglas Fir. I'm a newbie and these are my first attempts at germinating seeds. It looks like Douglas Fir can germinate without cold stratification, but I've heard the pretreatment can lead to higher percentages.
Nate

Thanks Nate. I'll have to try both then.

Ryan

I started with some P Douglas Viridis seeds. One almost instantly, that is within 3 days, germinated! 4 months later, it had already reached 20 cm. All others were (20 or so) very slow to do so or did not germinate at all. This was at 27th april. Another part of the seeds were put into extremely coarse sand, which was moist (but not wet) at 2 C, in a box for 30 days. Then I put them in my homemade plugs which are in my garden. Almost all germinated within a week or may be 10 days. I would say that stratification definately works much better for this species and much more so even with Abies Grandis.

Hope this works, first time to post a picture here. Could not add the link, sorry if something goes wrong now...

{{gwi:837446}}.

Hi Jorginho - here's your pic:

Resin

It looks very slender and etiolated, could do with a lot more light.

Resin

I have germinated Douglas fir seeds in the fridge. Most, if not all germinated in the first month. I just took them out and planted as they germinated. I would say 90 percent germinated.

Thnaks for the reply and tip. Well it did get as much sun as possible, but I have not too much sun in the garden. That is true.

It looks in fact very similar to the spruce I found in the forest nearby (Picea Abies seedling). This was also located in a place with 0 direct sunlight. Picea Abies has no problem with that.
Second point: the seed is from provenances from Danmark, which are geared to faster growth. These grow 30% faster (Flensborg fp625). May be that is also the reason.
Anecdote: some seeds fell in between the plugs, but on soil. You would not believe how fast these grew!! They were so much taller when I discovered them. Very funny. They have been transplanted and survived.

Finally: I have planted some seeds under a small Picea abies, together with some pseudotsuga seeds, so not in a plug. These babies resemble those in the forest much more! Both pseudotsuga and picea sitchensis are much smaller, but also more sturdy and in fact resemble seedlings I saw in the forest today. But this was also in the shade.
To come and think of it: I have also planted some other seeds under some three year old PS seedlings and these are also much smaller and much more sturdy. Could it be that being placed a plug (and may be too much fertilizer) has had this effect??? Anyway: the plugs received the most sunlight.

So...beats me! ;-)

Uhhh...just saw you in fact added my pic. How did you do that? Thanks! Would be nice to know. I saw many over here use photobucket or something like that...Is that necessary?

Ryan, the sugar pines are looking good.

Jason, interesting about refrigerated germination!

Jorg, thanks for the tube pic, I might have to try that method for creating plugs.

Resin, I shaved off a piece of the seed coating on that weird seed, and the needle end promptly grew much longer. Still no activity at the root end; does not look good. However, I did find four new flexilis sprouts this morning, along with a cornucopia of menziesii and contorta sprouts. What started out as a "I wonder if this will work" has turned into a "What am I going to do with all these seedlings?!?".

Ps, in response to your earlier comment about Edwin James, here's a pic of P. flexilis and James Peak. Taken from Baltimore ridge, looking southwest along Mammoth gulch.

Longs Peak (square top), taken from the same ridge, named after Stephen Long.

Title page from Vol. I of the book you mentioned (Expedition from Pittsburgh to the Rocky Mountains) where E. James first described P. flexilis.

Image plate from same book. Does that look like P. ponderosa?

Refrigeration seems to work really well for me. Its a little tedious and time consuming, but the germination rates are pretty good (Given the seeds are). I have a small setup in my garage with a fluorescent grow light that i am using over the winter. I will post some pics in a day or two when i get time. Thanks, Jason.

These are my home made pots. I used Toilet Paper rolls. They work alright, although i have to keep an eye so they don't dry out. They are Pinus Wallichiana.

These are Pinus thunbergiana

Some more wallichian and Pseudotsuga menziesii

More Wallichiana and Taxodium distichum in the back. Not sure what the light green thing is coming up. I have a hunch it might be a tamarindus indica.

The setup

This is a Pinus parviflora that had a worm eating the needles. I thought i lost it to damping off. A few days later i noticed the worm and saved the tree. Its new shoots started coming out sideways. Pinus densiflora on the right.

There is also an assortment of other trees such as maples, cotoneasters, and cedars. Some were started late, so i brought them inside for the winter.

Jason,
A nice variety of trees. Thanks for the tour!

Hi all.
I recently traveled through Buford Wyoming and stopped to visit the Tree Rock. A famous tree that seems to sprout from solid rock, preserved between the east and west lanes of I-80. The lone pine tree has been fascinating travelers since the first railroad passed through in 1867. The tree is a somewhat stunted and twisted limber pine (Pinus flexilis), a type of tree commonly found in this area where ponderosa and limber pines dominate the landscape. The age of the tree is unknown, although limber pines can live as long as 2,000 years. The tree grows out of a crack in a boulder of Precambrian era pink Sherman granite formed more than 1-4 billion years ago.
I was lucky enough to find one of it's pine cones laying at the bottom of the rock. I had thought to myself that maybe I could retrieve the seeds from the cone and transplant a relative to the tree here in Northern Wisconsin. I don't know much other than what I have recently read on this forum so, if anyone has any suggestions on how to get started or whither or not it will work, I'm all ears. or should I say eyes.
How neat would that be to have a sibling of the one that is in Wyoming that is visited by tourist everyday.
Any info and help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Hi Linkminer,

Unfortunately it won't work, as the seeds drop from the cones long before the cones drop from the tree. So old cones under the tree are empty.

You'd need to climb up to the tree in mid / late September, and pick some fresh cones that still have the seeds in.

Resin

Hi Resin,
What a bummer. I kinda felt like a kid in a candy shop when I found the cone. We all thought the seeds were still inside and couldn't wait to get back home to start asking the pros on what there thoughts were. I included a photo of the tree and the cone in hand. Still, no big loss. I can put the cone on the mantle with a picture of the tree for a conversation piece.
Thanks for replying to my post.

Linkminer,

Sounds like an interesting adventure! I like that part of Wyoming.

On the third pic in this post, you can see where the cones have started to open up, while they are still on the tree. At this stage, the birds start swarming the trees to pick out the seeds. By the time the cones fall to the ground, the seeds are usually gone. But sometimes you can find a cone on the ground that still has a seed or two in it.

It looks like the cone you found did not open up. It's possible that for some reason it did not mature to produce viable seeds.

If you would like to try germinating some flexilis seeds, I can send you some. Send me an email via gardenweb. The seeds will be from Colorado, though.

@jasoncoco I am curious about those plugs made from toilet rolls, do they not break apart after watering?