That's right Jaro, no way a zone 8-10 cutting/"scion" will survive in zone 5 piggybacking a cold-hardier rootstock.

Cedrus deodara roots are completely hardy in zone 5. What that does for this discussion I can't say.

Hinoki Cypress here in my zone Chub Harper will tell you you're wasting your time on. I say this though... There are often cultivars that for some unknown reason have developed hardy characteristics in climates that you wouldn't think they should have. These are the plants that zone pushers are looking for or should be looking for. The plants of course that aren't sheltered by two sides of a barn and a house... I mean that certain plant that is situated in an exposed setting that would normally get the junk kicked out of it.

So in other words, it's a good/the best rootstock you're looking to use knowing that still what you put onto that rootstock needs to be at least hardy when exposed to the worst conditions for your climate.

Hope that makes sense. And when I say the best rootstock, I mean the one that has the best rootsystem (for strength, adaptability, maybe sake of grafting ease, and probably a host of other reasons that aren't coming to me at this moment)...

So it's really not all that complicated, but definitely a wise choice of both rootstock and understock could make a heck of a difference.

Thuja occidentalis for Chamaecyparis obtusa... allows the hinoki to grow in clay conditions whereas it would die, yet another kind of hardiness.

Dax

The idea has a long and tortuous history, and is often identified with the French horticulturist Lucien Daniel and the Soviet horticulturist I.V.Michurin. The belief was that "plant juices" were the seat of heredity, and that "graft hybrids" could be made that combined characteristics of both species in a graft. It also became part of the ideology of T.D.Lysenko, which denied the existence of genes. Amazingly these ideas held sway in the USSR into the 1970s.

Good cautionary tale from history -- thanks !

I was thinking more along the lines not of "plant juices" being the "seat of heredity," but rather containing some stuff that helps the plant cope with freezing temperatures -- some sort of antifreeze, if you will, like that already identified even in animal species.
Furthermore, it seems obvious (but could very well be wrong) that whatever the root stock sends up into the grafted part of the plant, will end up circulating throughout.
If this seems like naive thinking, don't be surprized -- I'm not a botanist :O)

I sure botched some of my words.

Should read that 'both' understock and scion choice is what is of importance. (The scion needs to be hardy in such climates) as I use Hinoki as my example.

Also besides 'structural characteristics' of root systems, the understock 'should' broadly speaking that is but not necessary in most all cases however and in this perfect world of grafting 'it' will have comparatively similar strength, or lack thereof to compliment the vigor characteristics of the scion wood. Now we all notice that witches' brooms are growing at slow or slower rates than their host as we find them growing in "full size trees" mainly, but once it was suggested to me that the possible relation of scion to understock would in fact be better related if for example the understock choice was of less vigor for a cultivated "dwarf" thus meaning the relationship of vigor has better been matched.

There are conclusions to be drawn from what I say and my thoughts are nothing more than ideas from which each of you may be able to comprehend and to use on your own as to selection of an understock given all 'conditions' present.

Definitely a very interesting topic:)

But sorry, "No Antifreeze" present. The rootstock is nothing more than a host for the scion and its function is to break up or move along any nutrients to its' host, the scion.

Dax

so does it work the same way with adaptability? They tell me that Abies concolor is adapted to my region due to heat and drought conditions. Say that it grafted onto a fraseri does it lose its adaptability or would a fraseri work here if it was grafted on a Abies concolor?

Hi Jeff,

The choice of understock can effect adaptability and disease resistances in conifers and almost all other grafted plants including fruit trees. That is why abies firma is being tried as an understock for firs grown in more southern area as it is more disease and heat tolerant that other firs. Cham. Lawsoniana also benefits form the use of different understock as the species does poorly in many areas of the country. David

what would be the best choice for grafting here east of St. Louis and 1 hour west of Vincennes, Indiana. I am referred to firma but from what I read there may be a problem with hardiness here. Cicilian fir may be the best fir for here but they are very rare and most of them aren`t seedling( except for Forestfarm) Anyone ever experimented with Spanish Fir or Abies momi(or something like that I can`t remember the common name or spelling

I just planted an Abies Marocano, an Abies Cilicica, Pseudotsuga Wilsoniana, P. Sinensis and Picea Wilsonii and have just found out now that the Abies were grafted onto Balsam Fir, the Pseudotsugas were grafted onto Douglas Fir from Oregon and the Spuce onto Blue Spruce. I chose these trees to try to see if they could handle the climate here in Georgia but is there a chance that the understocks used might die or may not be able to adapt?

Hi Jeff,

I'd suspect that here and where you live the same species' would be used:

For Fir: Abies nordmanniana
Spruce: Picea abies
For Pines:
Pinus strobus
Pinus resinosa
For Larch: Larix decidua
For Douglas Firs: Pseudotsuga menziesii var. glauca

Anything else I missed, just ask.

Forrest30295 - I really can't help ya there but can only offer advice to check with your local extention office.
If Picea pungens grows well there, then the Picea grafts should do well too (take a look around). On the others, I would tend to think that Abies balsamea would be ok, but Abies firma being better-suited; The Doug Firs, I would think you do have the right rootstock. I however don't know the grafted species well enough though to comment on them:) So basically, I know nothing.

Dax