I'm from a sugar beet growing area so I actually seek it out. The differences aren't big enough to bother with, IMHO. Something about that "taste test" sounds fishy to me, if they're comparing one brand to another then it wasn't a blind test, the testers knew which was which, and that's a no-no if you're trying to be objective, it is well known that such prior knowledge influences the results. If you care about such subtleties, cane isn't that hard to find. I like the demarrara for topping cookies and scones, I like the big crystals. I also notice the difference in chai, and for that I use cane sugar. Depends on what your tastebuds say I guess.

It does say tasters didn't know which was which.

I think you're right, though, that it depends upon the individual. I know that the number of tastebuds one has differs and that age also affects our sensitivity. That's why so many young children hate broccoli (and some rather famous adults, too!)

Carol

Well, all I can tell you is that I made a lemon cake roll today with beet sugar, and the lemon curd I filled it with was also made with beet sugar. My fresh apple upside cake was likewise made with beet sugar.

There's none of any of them left, so it can't be too bad.

I use beet sugar in my jellies and jams, in baking, in breads. (shrug) I even use it for all candy making except that one fudge recipe. It's never stopped anyone from eating any of it.

Annie

I am not up to date on the politics of sugar. At one time the US had import quotas which they passed out to friendly 3rd world tropical countries. We then proceeded to pay much more than the current world market price for the sugar from these countries. This also protected our domestic sugar industry. I don't know if this all still goes on or not. It was my impression at the time, that without these protections, the US sugar industry would totally disappear.

I certainly never use pectin myself. I think that is a habit that many people have gotten into which is frequently totally unnecessary ( for things like apples, grapes, blackberries.) There certainly are low pectin fruits than may need it.

Robert

Robert, The one that really amazes me is cranberry anything with added pectin. I tried to make cranberry juice one time and I couldn't figure out how to not get it to jell. I also saw a recipe for quince jelly using pectin. That's another crazy one.

Annie,
Are you telling us you ate 2 whole cakes today already???
Deanna, running and ducking........... :+)

Deanna, that would be a yes, sort of. I had company for dinner, my daughter, her SO and their two children. Also Ashley and her boyfriend, so that made 7 of us.

There's still a little of the cake roll left, come on over!

Annie

Well, Deanna, you aren't here yet, so I'll try to tempt you with a picture:

{{gwi:871382}}

Hurry, there's still time for breakfast!

Annie

Reading this makes me smile..as this debate will never end!
I do see a difference...as one previous poster stated regarding "fine cooking."
In several of the food science classes and baking classes I have taken a number of recipes were tested (blind testing) using beet sugar vs. cane sugar.
Recipe results produced very real differences.
Beet sugar reacts differently when cooked.
A test doing a simple meringue resulted as follows:
Beet sugar produced a sweeter taste with less loft when beaten and would "weep" quicker than cane sugar.
Cane sugar,with the same recipe, produced great loft with a firm yet delicate meringue.

The taste is more subjective...much like chocolate likes and dislikes in a brownie recipe.

Many of my cookbooks and cooking magazines even have variations listed if you bake with cane vs. beet sugar. The recipe will actually list different quantities for ingredients to yield the same recipe.

A difference does present itself, and not just IMHO.

So the "beet" goes on! :)

I like the idea that we can differ and be comfortable with that. It's nice to experience an amicable debate.

Carol

I'll second that, Carol!

It seems like civility is under-rated these days.

I have a new one for you. A couple of things that I have bought here have listed grape sugar in the ingrediants. Never of heard of that before.

Wow, Melly, I never heard of that either. I'll have to go google it unless you know what it is....

vagardengirl, I didn't say there was no difference, I said there wasn't enough difference to stop anyone from eating anything I cooked with it!! Also not enough difference to justify the difference in price here in Michigan.

Annie

I think grape sugar is glucose/dextrose. It's about 3/4 as sweet as cane or beet.

Carol

It was when I lived in Puerto Rico and then later on a boat in the Virgin Islands that I discovered how different 'real' brown sugar is from the painted kind. Although I am an incredibly cheap person in general, buying most of my groceries at Aldi, I do buy only brown sugar made from cane sugar the 'normal' way. It is so much tastier. I have also in the past, when out of brown sugar, made my own by stirring molasses into white sugar, but it is a pain and doesn't come out quite right.

I found it interesting in the article that Imperial Holly of Sugar Land, Texas, owned 2 major brands which make beet sugar. I spent a few days in Sugar Land recently. The town of course is named after all the sugar cane that used to be grown and processed there. Now Sugar Land is just another suburb of Houston.

Marcia, back in cold WI

After reading the article I discovered I have been using beet sugar for the last few years. The local Costco carries Holly brand sugar. Which the article says is beet sugar. With all the canning I do I need to buy my sugar in bulk now. I mostly use no pectin recipes and I have never noticed a difference.

I don't make creme brulee though, I prefer flan.

-Robin

Daisy,
Your postings about sugarcane sugar were very interesting. So were the responses ! I live in Florida where most of the sugarcane is grown in the US. I wrote you a separate e-mail but forgot to tell you that you can rest easier now because most sugarcane in Louisiana and Florida has been harvested by machinery for many years . Those big million $ machines cut and harvest it up off the ground(when blown over by wind at maturity) and cut it into sections about 10 inches(25 cm)long and puts it into a big wagon to deliver it to the huge sugar mill where it is mechanically unloaded. Hand labor is minimal these days--mostly drivers.
Happy New Year !

Here in the NE, Domino sugar is the most popular and its says its pure cane sugar.

Thank you Sugarcane52. Sugar cane growing/harvesting in Australia has also been fully mechanised for at least 50 years. It is a massive industry here.

The link below shows a picture of a sugar train - some of them can get to a mile long!

Here is a link that might be useful:

Thanks for the picture,Daisy. In Florida the only sugarcane grown for sugar is concentrated near the 6 sugarmills on Lake Okeechobee. So railroad is not so necessary because of the short distance to the mills. The wagons I mentioned look very similar to the railroad cars in tour picture--very large. I'll get you a little production data for Florida and Louisiana. You may be surprised how much sugar is produced here and in Louisiana.

Daisy,
Here is some production data for sugar worldwide including exports. Australia is # 3 worldwide for exports--although the US produces a little more sugar. The US is # 5 in production--but we consume it rather than export it. Australia is # 7 in production. Although consumption in the US per person is about the same as Australia, we have about 15 times the population ! The information I give comes from the link below which you can view.
I'll try to get you Florida and Louisiana's share of sugarcane sugar production next time.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sugar Production Statistics

Daisy,
Here is sugarcane production data for Florida. According to the link given below, Florida produced 51.3% of the sugarcane sugar produced in the US in 2005 and 21.4% of the total sugar produced in the US. (There is about as much sugarbeet sugar produced as 'cane sugar in the US--although I never recall seeing any beet sugar in the local grocery stores).Louisiana, Texas, and Hawaii produced the remainder of sugarcane sugar. We import about 1/5 of the sugar we consume(I didn't know that). So you Aussies keep sending those "care packages" of sugar in the proverbial mail!
The link below has other interesting information about sugarcane production in Florida which may like to read or scan.
Sweet eating, Daisy !

Here is a link that might be useful: Sugarcane Production in Florida

Those sugar cane trains are not your ordinary railway systems. They are used wholly and solely to take the cane from the fields to the mills, and are specially built for the purpose. Our cane fields are BIG! And there are a lot of them.

interesting thread. I'd always used canesugar when I lived in FL. Guess I've been using beet sugar lately. Glad to know why my meringue is too sweet and not as big. It has been a disappointment, but I couldn't figure out what I was doing different. Now I'll be sure to get the right sugar for my key lime pie.

tanya

I'm a beet sugar used, also from MI and used Pioneer Sugar for years and years. Moved to FL no more Pioneer Sugar available down there, so loaded up with Pioneer Sugar with every trip to the Midwest! We moved to IL in '86 and again Pioneer or Holly Sugar could be found locally. I just can not use Cane Sugar. I don't even like the taste of Cane Sugar as it is just to sweet and makes my cookie dough too gooey for my cookie press.

Holly sugar is also sold around here in some of the smaller markets. I looked at the bag and it said pure cane sugar. It may be that they use whatever is closer to their factories. Cane has many options including molasses, brown, etc. Beet sugar, I believe, cannot be made into molasses or other by-products.

"Holly sugar is also sold around here in some of the smaller markets. I looked at the bag and it said pure cane sugar. "

Sorry, I've not bought sugar for some time now being in rehab of our home and no kitchen! I was trying to remember the other brand of beet sugar I used to buy and should not have posted without being sure of my statement. Again, my apologies.

Michelle

Michelle,
It may be that the Holly brand is beet sugar in other parts of the country. Unless its ingredients are printed on the bag, some people will not know the difference. Here, I never see sugar cane syrups, but a local BIg Lots had many jars of two kinds of cane syrup. Sorgum molasses is also not popular here, but where they make 'Shoo Fly Pies', its a big seller. Now if your wanting a recipe for the pie, you need to see what they have in Pennsylvania Dutch country. My mom used to add a little black strap molasses to her baked beans, and they came out very dark, with a less sweet taste.

Michele, the other brand I see here a lot is "Jack Frost" or "Domino". They are both cane sugars, I think.

Annie

Is it true that Animal Bones are used in the purification and manufacturing of Cane Sugar and NOT used in the manufacturing of Beet Sugar?

ABSOLUTELY FALSE!! At least, in Australia. Can't speak for anywhere else.

Apparently it's only in the USA and congratulations to Austrial for not using Animal Bones in the processing of sugar. As I research this question, I found this statement from C&H sugar, a manufacturer of Cane Sugar, in response to a customers request for information regarding Animal Bone Ash.

"Thank you for taking the time to contact C & H Sugar regarding our use of carbonized bone charcoal. There are no animal products in the sugar itself, which is certified kosher. Bone char is made from cattle bones only, never from those of other animals. The function of the bone char is to remove impurities from raw sugar." and it goes on to say "its use is a very common practice in sugar refining, and is currently the best available."

As you can see, they claim that Animal Bones are used to remove the impurities from raw sugar.

What process do the Austrilians use to remove the impurities in raw cane sugar? Just curious.

Animal bones made into char, or burned to a powder are not the same as an animal bone for bone meal in a garden. I believe that once the bones are burned up, there is little concern to anything consuming the sugar. Splenda uses chlorine to remove part of the carbohydrate molecules, and there are many other items used in refining products we consume. Char or charcoal is made from many different sources.

Just to make ABSOLUTELY sure, I contacted a local sugar mill, and got this reply:

Sugar Australia refines sugar in Melbourne and Mackay and markets the CSR brand of sugar.

Both its refineries DO NOT USE bone char. Instead, the decolourising process uses granular activated carbon (made from coal). The use of bone charcoal in sugar refineries ceased in Australia about 1990.

There are refineries in America that still use it, but not in Australia.

The Sugar Australia refineries do not use any materials of animal origin in the refining process, so its products are suitable for a Vegan diet.

We also have Kosher and Halal certification for our refined sugar range.

Daisey,
An Aussie sugarcane grower-friend of mine in Queensland recently sent me some syrup made from sugarcane. It was quite dark compared to our homemade sugarcane syrup in North Florida. Is it always that dark-colored in Australia ? This bottle came from CSR and is called "Original Golden Syrup". The color is much closer to black than golden, I'm afraid. The ingredients are listed as cane sugar and water. Here, we make the syrup fresh from the cane juice after it is pressed out. We don't reconstitute it from sugar and water. Is this typical Australian "sugar cane syrup" ?
Sugarcane52

I've bought CSR brand golden syrup, also several other brands, and it's always been a beautiful golden colour. It does look darker in larger quantities, of course. Did you look at it while it had something dark behind it? It can look dark then, but if you hold it up to the light, it's really golden.

They may add water to it to make it more easily pourable - I don't like those pourable containers, like sauce dispensers - I much prefer to use a spoon.

Here are two different pix from the same company. The URL below is more like the way it should look!

http://www.csrsugar.com.au/ViewProduct.aspx?id=9

Here is a link that might be useful: CSR golden syrup page

Daisy,
Thanks for the reply and the link. My jar of CSR syrup is just like the one at the link. I haven't opened the jar yet as I am saving it to show to our syrupmaking group when we meet. I plan for us to sample it then--fresh. Although the color looks quite dark through the plastic jar, I'm wondering if the plastic jar could be tinted causing the syrup to appear darker. I held it up to the light and you CAN see your finger on the other side. It's just dark looking. Now, I am anxious to open the jar and see--but I'll wait and may get back to you later with an update. We will compare this syrup with our fresh homemade syrup from fresh-squeezed juice. Do you know if CSR uses sugar and water to make syrup rather than the juice from the cane? The ingredients do say: cane sugar, water. If it is done this way, it is possible to lose some of the fresh flavor of the juice because sugar goes through the refining process that actually removes some of the fresh taste bacause it removes impurities. Ironically, perhaps, the impurities are what give the fresh syrup from juice a lot of its flavor !
By the way the syrup was made in Victoria. Do they process any fresh cane in Victoria or is all the fresh cane milled in Queensland ? My friend lives near Home Hill and grows several hundred acres of sugarcane.
Thanks again for your help!

Sugarcane52

Melbourne is the capital of the state of Victoria, so yes, sugar is refined there, according to the reply from CSR that I quoted earlier (and which I didn't know before that!). I do not understand why it is so!! It's a long way from where the cane is grown.

I think you might need to take these questions to the horse's mouth. I don't know all the answers. There's a 'contact us' at the bottom of the page at the link I gave you earlier.

Daisy,
Hi. I recently tried the CSR syrup (from a contact in Queensland)at our Syrupmakers board meeting here in Florida and wanted to give you a report on our opinions. The thickness of the syrup is excellent--thick, just the way I like it ! The taste is debatable. It isn't bad, but very unusual(to us). We concluded from the label(ingredients: sugar, water) and from tasting the product that it is not "genuine" syrup. It MAY be brown sugar (or refined sugar with some molasses added back to it for color and extra flavor) mixed with some water and boiled to a syrup. Since we were all used to homemade syrup from fresh-squeezed sugarcane juice, we didn't rate it very highly. Sorry. But then again I say "taste is taste"...what one person thinks tastes great, another thinks it tastes terrible. Anyway just wanted to let you know that it ain't bad, but it ain't the "real thing", either.
Sugarcane52

I just took a respected ALCAT Allergy test and I have been Very Very Sick, Spent a lot of time in the hospital. Reading this article makes me want to bawl in frustration. I have learned that I am very allergic to Beet sugar but I am fine with Cane Sugar. Therefore, I get online to learn more and how to avoid the Beet. Learning that it is not labeled and is used randonly and mostly on the rise in the past few years since I have become very ill makes me worried and as Anne Shirley would say it, "in the depths of Dispair." How am I to know what I can and cannot eat, if I cannot know what has Cane and What has beet? I DO NOT CARE what cooks better, that is asthetic at best, mine is a real health Issue. Any Suggestions or is this going to be a major future problem for others than myself who have a severe intolerance to the sugar beet.

There are other sugars that are useful as well as a substitute. Fructose comes to mind and is made from corn. Imagine not being able to enjoy tomatoes, potatoes, and many fruits high in potassium, then avoiding all sugars, and then avoiding any saturated fats, all at the aame time. Even eating just lettuce isn't much help..

Some people are also allergic to corn syrup ! As for sugarcane, I find that many times sugarcane IS listed on the label. So, I suggest that anyone allergic to beet sugar to look for sugarcane sugar on the label. Sugarcane sugar is actually a little more expensive than beet sugar. That is a main reason that soft drinks are made almost entirely using corn syrup sweeteners rather than sugarcane--to save money.(It also dissolves easier). Dr. Pepper is made in Texas using cane sugar at a premium price for those who prefer the superior taste. A Pepsi bottler in Birmingham, AL recently told me that some other companies are contemplating using cane sugar for their drinks and see if they go over well--because there IS demand for cane sugar sweetened drinks.

Great discussion. One of the reasons that beet sugar is prevalent in the United States is that there is technology available that makes it easy and cost effective to grow.

The sugar from beets and cane is the same whether it is grown organically or with enhanced seeds.

Disclaimer: I am a representative for the Sugar Industry Biotech Council.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sugar Beets

Is it possible for the home gardener to produce their own syrup or sugar? Have any of you ever grown sugar cane or sugar beets and processed it down to a syrup or granules? If so, how do you do it?

The real debate should be sucrose vs. fructose.

See this great video: SUGAR: THE BITTER TRUTH by Robert H. Lustig http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

wow intolerant to beet sugar, and by the sounds of it, rather drastically intolerant. (is it anything like gluten intolerance? If so perhaps there are support groups our there that can help you figure out what is safe and what is not, as well as working to get companies to share the information on labels.)

I'm intolerant of High Fructose Corn Syrup but it is only a mild intolerance. I don't think I'm likely to go to the hospital from consuming it, worst case is being doubled over with a horrible belly ach for a half an hour if I stupidly drink a can of soda on an empty stomach (or a big glass of Cool Aid or any other beverage high in that particular sweetener.

As for the whole debate about cane v beet, I don't bake/cook/whatever enough to have much of an opinion about it. However, I did once try growing sweet sorghum. Didn't grow enough to try milling it or making it into syrup though and don't have the equipment to do so either. I understand processing sorghum (and probably cane too) is a pretty heavy task that can last several days even on a small scale.

Give Agave a try?

I have been searching for information on beet sugar and this link came up. It is of interest to me because the sugar that is sold at Teavana is so much better to sweeten tea than granulated sugar because it is beet sugar. It doesn't have a taste other than sweet. It is called German Rock Sugar and is sold for $9.44 a pound and comes in the shape of little rocks. Why do you suppose it's taste is superior to other cane/beet sugars.

Here is a link embedded in one of the links above. Half way down it starts to get into what we were taught at university a half century ago, specifically, the sugars are the same but the impurities are different. SUGAR, SUGAR / Cane and beet share the same chemistry but act differently in the kitchen - SFGate - SUGAR, SUGAR / Cane and beet share the same chemistry but act differently in the kitchen.