First, dishwashers don't sterilize. Unless you're in a commercial setting and the water temperature is set very high (higher than you would care for with children around), bottles aren't sterilized by using the dishwasher.

That's why appliance makers refer to a "sanitize" cycle, which basically means nothing except "clean."

The mango chutney and the salted lemons are not problems because you're not canning the product. The mangoes have been, I would surmise, pretty thoroughly acidified by long-cooking in the vinegar and salted lemons aren't a problem at all because the lemons are acid and the salt is a preservative.

In both cases, hot clean jars out of the dishwasher, which is what you're getting, should be sufficient for the amount of time these foods will be refrigerated.

Good luck. It's great that you're concerned about your family's health and food safety. Post questions anytime.

Carol

Thank you so much for your quick reply! I did not know that about dishwashers ... I've read in several places that dishwashers are sufficient for sterilizing (which I guess is what you get for trusting the internet, haha). Glad to hear though that it will not be a problem for what I've made so far.

Just to clarify, leaving the lemons at room temperature for three weeks isn't dangerous because of the salt and acidity of the juice?

So going forward the best way to sterilize is boiling water? For how long, or do you recommend some kind of special equipment?

Thank you again,
Becki

The only way to actually sterilize your jars is by boiling in water for 10 mins. Actively boiling them. Any large stock pot works fine. Lids are not boiled, only simmered.

Once you get into actually canning foods you'll find that only a few recipes call for using sterilized jars and lids. Hot lids and jars yes, but they don't need to be sterilized. This because the canning processing takes care of that. Any thing that is processed (canned) for more than 10 mins., whether that is boiling water bath canning or pressure canning, does not require the use of sterilized jars.

Leaving the lemons at room temperature isn't really hazardous because as Carol said, they are quite acidic. It is that high acid pH that is protecting you. But there is still the possible problem of listeria developing so the guidelines do tend to recommend refrigeration instead. Only fermenting foods are actually approved for room temperature storage without processing so personally I'd put them in the fridge.

Also date your chutney jar in the fridge. Since it wasn't processed it does have a limited shelf life.

If you want to do some reading from the recognized authority on homw food preservation I've posted the link to NCHFP below.

Take care with where you get your recipes for home food preservation as there are all kinds of unreliable sources on the web. Until you begin to understand the reasons behind some of the rules, it is best to stick with recipes from the approved sources only.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: National Center for Home Food Preservation

Besides the website Dave gave (which is great), pick up a copy of the Ball Blue Book. It may be hard to find right now, but a friend of mine just ordered it from Amazon after borrowing mine. Ball also has a good website -

www.freshpreserving.com

Re: washing the lemons - the USDA/FDA does not recommend dishwashing liquid or handsoap for washing produce. All you need is running water and a clean vegetable brush (for firm hard skinned things like lemons), or drying with a paper towel is good for delicate things like grapes. Though I admit to using dish soap on waxed produce from the store.

I would also skip the hand sanitizer in favor of washing my hands with dish soap or a non-moisturizing, non-scented hand soap (antibacterial is fine, bit not required) and drying on paper towel or clean hand towel (not the one you used to dry dishes and then hung on the oven handle LOL). Then you can safely pack your lemons, pickles, whatever in the jars.

Welcome to the forum!

Using soap on fruits and vegetables is not recommended. You get rid of the most bacteria by washing under running water. Use a brush on more firm foods. The soap and other things, like bleach, will penetrate the pores of the foods. Then, your food is contaminated with the chemicals.

Linda Lou - how do you get the wax off things like cukes and apples without soap? Just scrubbing doesn't seem to do it for me (or I'm too impatient, can't stand handling the slippery things). A drop of dish soap seems to cut the wax, and then I can peel the cuke or apple without recoiling. I won't use waxed apples for apple butter or pectin, always peel them even after washing, though I find we can eat raw apples if I wash the wax off.

Leaving salted lemons at room temperature won't pose the risks leaving cucumbers at room temperature will. They're not a brined pickle with low-acid cucumbers, water and salt or water and vinegar.

Salted lemons (I've made them myself) are nothing but lemons and salt with some spices such as cinnamon sticks, pink peppercorns or black, cloves, cardamom, etc.

So there's far less risk than, say, fermented cabbage. Listeria is not a concern.

Carol

I'd also like to add my 2 cents re: washing food with soap. My mom was a research chemist. She mentioned to me on several occasion that it took many rinses to completely remove soap residue - I don't remember the exact number but it was more than 20.

Here is a link that might be useful: my blog- Little Homestead in the Village

Thanks for all the replies. Yet another Internet-garnered tip (washing fruits with soap and water) that I should have ignored. Oh well, I'll know better next time!

Also thanks for the advice on safety. I feel much more confident now about my chutney especially, which I have to say is pretty yummy! Thanks again.

Becki

> Using soap on fruits and vegetables is not recommended.

I've been using Fit Fruit & Vegetable Wash to remove the wax on apples and cukes for several years. Is this bad too? Just two days ago canned pork in wine sauce & instructions were to use unpeeled apples.

John, (Is this bad too) I don't think so -

WSU testing reports shows FIT removes more wax than water does if that helps you at all. Contains edible ingredients like citric acid, baking soda and grapefruit oil. It rinses away clean, leaves no aftertaste or smell.

They gave it a thumbs up. Downside - the price.

I saw the extension review of FIT. It does work.

The page below has some appealing formulas for fruit and vegetable washes that use ingredients similar to FIT. Just scroll down.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Homemade Fruit and Vegetable Wash

That is interesting since I work for WSU Extension and we have been told to tell everyone to use a brush and running water. Nothing else and it was a waste of money to buy the Fit.
The wax is supposed to be food grade and harmless. I am not totally convinced, but I am not a scientist.

I try to not get the waxed foods. I don't buy Mexican, either. Just not convinced the water they use, etc. is safe. If they tell you not to drink the water when in Mexico, do I want to eat the food from there ? No, not really.

All the more reason to eat the produce locally and in season or preserve it for later.

Yeah, but I found some of the apples I bought from a local orchard were waxed (slimy, though not mushy, it was definitely *something* on the surface). I don't want that stuff in my apple butter, even if it is food-grade.

I just can't stand touching waxed produce - and sometimes you've just gotta buy cukes when yours aren't ready (it's winter. etc.).

Carol - thanks for the link to homemade fruit wash.

I should have included a link to the document I read. This is a study from Wisconsin Extension (publisher of my favorite pickle and sauerkraut documents) on FIT and its efficacy.

However, it doesn't mean water or homemade washes can't also be effective (and a lot cheaper).

1/2 and 1/2 white vinegar and water might work well for waxy substances.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: FIT Do the Ads and Research Match

Just a comment about apples with a "waxy" feel, while I know that commercially apples are sometimes waxed, it can be a natural wax that apples develop. I just checked some apples that I have had stored since Sept. and they have a waxy feel, but I know that they were not treated, I picked them myself at the orchard. I thought that I remembered reading that as some varieties of apples age they will develop this covering, here's what I found:"Most apples look and feel waxy because the skin secretes a protective covering of wax; this layer serves to hold water in and keep disease out."This is an excerpt from Whole Foods Companion... by Diane Onstad. I thought I'd never see the end of the 200 lbs my DH and I picked, but I'm down to about 5 lbs, made some yummy low sugar Linda Lou's Apple Pie Jam the other day!
Lea

Lea - that may be it. They did seem a little waxy but not bag when I bought 7.5 lbs at the end of the season, but were more slippery than I remembered after cellaring. They are JonaGolds - closest I could find to true (not commercial) Golden Delicious my neighbor gave me earlier in the fall. I'll have to check if that's one of the varieties that secretes this "wax".

I wish I remembered how to keep apples longer - I lent my cousin's DH my copy of Busy Person's Guide when he was laid up with a broken leg and she took it to the dump after a cleaning binge (along with a lot of mysteries my mom had lent/given him)! No matter that I had an address label on it and a big sticky note (which he may have removed) saying "I want this back!"...

Just Googled it and Lea hit the nail on the head! I feel a little better about my "slimy" apples, it's a wonder they've lasted this long, but I still hate touching them. The last are going in a batch of something tomorrow - either Apple Pie Jam or Apple Caramel Jam (I've been wanting to try both recipes, but my kids like apple butter so much it seems that's all I make).

Sorry to take this thread so OT.

Hi guys!

I'm extremely new to this forumn and this is my 1st response. I was reading this thread and some of you brought up FIT and how it's costly. I have a homemade recipe that I use all the time:

Fruit & Veggie Wash
Combine 1 C Water, 1 C vinegar, 2T Baking Soda, and 2 T Lemon Juice (bottled) in a large bowl and stir until the fizzing goes down. Pour into a spray bottle and store on counter. When ready to use, spray on your fruits & veggies, let sit for 5 minutes and rinse off with cold water while scrubbing with a soft brush.

I have a question for any lurking chemist re processing green leafy stuff.

We'll grow a 40 foot row of chard, and every week or so, cut off at least a bushel of leaves. The row is heavily mulched with grass clippings, so there isn't any significant dirt on the leaves, but there are bits of dry grass, dust, insect poop, the occasional earwig, aphid, and what not.

So we'll fill up laundry sink with tap water and put in a good amount of fresh leaves, then let them soak for 15 minutes, slosh them around a bit, repeat, and then let the residue settle to the bottom of the tub. Then we take the leaves out, drain a bit, wilt them in 3 gallon stock pots, drain and let cool, then divide and freeze.

So my question: would there be any advantage in adding a very dilute amount of soap/detergent or some surfactant to the soaking water?

David52 - Soap in chard rinse is not a good idea (residual chemicals) and really doesn't work as a surfactant for that application. It's best to just use some salt in the water when rinsing any vegetable. The hidden critters die and float off, and the dirt, grass, whatever, are loosened from the leaves and sink to the bottom. With the second rinse, most all of the salt is removed.

Nancy

Thanks, Nancy -

A quick internet search shows a suggested concentration of 1 teaspoon salt / cup? That would do in the little critters for sure, but would use up an awful lot of salt unless I changed the way we process the chard - maybe use smaller rinse containers and more batches.

David - nothing to back this up just personal experience - I use 1 T of salt per gallon of water and it works fine. I just hand stir all the leaves in the solution well then let them sit in it for 15-20 mins. Then drain and rinse well and let dry.

Dave

I use a handful per sink full of water for parsley, broccoli, spinach. My hand is in the smaller range :)

No measuring, and if any produce absorbs any of the salt, I've never noticed, seems to rinse freely. And, oh my, the little wiggly things that will exit curly parsley sometimes. I do just a 5-10 minute soak and swish, then rinse.

I make a fruit and veggie wash at home. It's similar to the ones above, but a little different, so I thought I would share it as well.

1 cup water
1 cup white vinegar
1 T. baking soda
20-25 drops Grapefruit Seed Extract

I keep it in a spray bottle and spray it on our berries and let it sit for about 5 minutes before I wash them off. I just do the ones we are about to eat. Often, when I want to wash a whole bunch of grapes at once, I will fill up a large bowl with that solution and drop the whole bunch of grapes in and let them sit for about 5-10 minutes for washing them off.