Why have you not noticed this in commercial pickles or why do you snip the blossom end?

To answer the latter, the blossom end contains enzymes which contribute to softening and spoilage. So for the crispest pickles, that end needs to be trimmed. Some of us (myself for instance) often trim off both ends. In my case it's because it's just as fast to trim off both as it is to stand there and figure out which end to do. Additionally, the stem end tends to harbor a certain amount of bacteria, so except for a long-fermented dill, I trim the stems as well.

Perhaps the commercial pickles you've noticed have enough preservatives and crisping agents that these things aren't an issue.

Carol

I also trim both ends, but do agree that the blossom end must be removed. Commercial pickled cukes are treated with things like chlorine or sulfate washes before they are made into pickles.

I trim both ends too. Aesthetics mostly. No one wants to eat a piece of stem! Blossom end is trimmed for the reasons above.

Deanna

I am fermenting some pickles for the 1st time- I am following a reciepe that says after 3 days the brine should get cloudy, then bubble, then stop bubbling. The pickles are supposed to be resady to eat in 10-11 days. My brine never changed color, yet the pickles taste good, maybe a little salty. Any advice?

Here is the reciepe I am following-

Fermented Dill Pickles  Refrigerated "Clausen" Type
1 Gallon Jar
Pickling Cucumbers
12 Fresh Dill Flower heads, or
2 Tbsp Dried dill weed and
2 Tbsp. Dried dill seed
10 to 12 Cloves Garlic
6 to 8 Peppercorns
1/4 Cup Vinegar
1/2 Cup Salt
1 1/2 Quarts Water

In 1 gallon jar add pickling cucumbers Rinse but do not wash the cucumbers. Add Dill flower heads or dried dill weed and seed, garlic, peppercorns, and vinegar. Dissolve salt in water and add to jar. Fill jar the remaining way with water. Add weight to keep cucumbers under brine.

Fermentation sequence
1. Clear brine  no cloudiness for 1 to 3 days
2. Cloudy brine with gas formation, 2-3 days
3. Cloudy brine  no gas formation, 5 to 6 days

Pickles ready to eat after 10-11 days.
Refrigerate pickles if you do not want to process them.

To process the pickles
Fill clean, sterilized quart jars with pickles to within 1/2inch of the top. Wipe, seal, and process in a hot water bath for 15 minutes. Remove and place on towel in a draft free area. Let jars stand for 12 hours. Label and date. Store in a dark, cool area.

Fermentation takes a long time if its in a cooler area. Claussen is usually a 'half sour'. Three days out at room temps is fine, then a dash of vinegar is addded and they get refrigerated. Vinegar added at time of fermentaion may not occur. The vinegar stops the fermentation before it goes to the 'fully brined' state. Left out longer, they do absorb more salt. The 10-11 day wait after the fermentation of a 'half sour' is to balance out the brine, but they are good even at 5 days. This is what makes it get a bit cloudy. Using water that is hard, or chlorinated will not give good tasting pickles. Here, I use part of a Ball or Mrs. Wages dill pickle mix, as the salt part, as it has more dill flavor compared to just adding the seeds and weed. I find that only 2-3 ppprcorns are OK, any more and it does get them a bit hotter (peppery) unless you like it that way. This type will turn to mush if you do a heat process on them, as the salt brine will break down the cukes faster than vinegar. Thats one reason the true Claussens are sold in the refrigerated section of the supermarkets. The same holds true with a half sour green tomato that Claussen also makes.

Thanks for the info, should I use a fresh brine to store them in the fridge?

Also I have 20 pounds fermenting in the traditional manner, that should take 4-5 weeks. The brine in those did get cloudy.

You may be interested in a previous thread that discusses some of these issues.

A fresh finishing brine can be made. I do that with my fermented dills. The old brine gets too "funky" for my taste.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: How Long Should Dill Pickles Ferment?

If you replace the brine for refrigeration storage, be careful as if its too salty, it will make them too salty too. If its too weak, it can spoil the batch. I usually use the same brine for storing, but add that small amount of vinegar once they get put in the fridge. Do NOT cap tightly! Mine are made in half gallon Ball jars, and I use one of their lids with a plastic cover over it, loosly screwed on. You may want to try and taste a single pickle (or a piece of one) about once per week. When handling the cukes, I cut the end tips off BOTH ends, and they are washed, not just lightly rinsed. The pickling brine is made at the time they are picked off the plants. For the garlic cut it into medium sized pieces for a bit more flavor to get into the brine. For a Claussen half sour (commercial ones), they make an extra large batch of brine, and once they are fermented, they use the other part of that brine batch. But again, if its already allowed the cukes to absorb the salt from the orignal brine, and its replaced with a new brine, the new brine is now saltier than what the cukes were originally pickled in, so your going to be giving it more salt. I think Claussen dilutes the storage brine, but have some chemcial way to determine what it needs as to salt, so it will not increase the cukes salt content.

A finishing brine would not have salt in the proportions of the original brine, for just the reasons mentioned. It would be far too salty. A finishing brine is not designed for fermentation.

Carol

Carol-

Other than the "translucent" look of the pickle and taste, is there any other way I know? How did you know on day 17 they were good?

Can you give me a finishing brine to store them in? I love the Claussen's in the store, I want my brine to look and taste that way.

Also- Will the 4-5 week fermentation pickles taste much different than these 10-11 types? I know the reciepe was different......I appreciate the help!

Tom

The longer the cuke is in brine, the softer (less crunchy) and more translucent it becomes. For a stroage brine, I would cut the salt down to half or 1/3 the amount originally used. These could sit in a brine for a year, but would be very mushy. Also, scum on the surface of the brine can get moldy if its sitting out for too long. My grandmother made these every day in the morning. At dinner, my grandfather was already digging out ones that had been made the day before. He just couldn't wait. After a week, she would take them out of the brine and refrigerate what was left (if any), then make a new brine for the next batch. She had a friend who brought over cukes every day from a garden. I'm looking at growing maybe 5 different pickling cuke types. One is even called the 'Bostom Pickler'.

Here is what I have going....

Here is a link that might be useful: My pickle experiment

I ate one, LOL. If they taste the way you want, they're "done."

I can't tell you a finishing brine will give the flavor you want. I've only made traditional fermented dills in big batches, not the Clausen-type recipe you're working on. But I'm providing a link to an excellent University of Wisconsin Extension document that provides a wealth of information on pickles and fermenting. You'll see the finishing brine in that document. I rinse the pickles well before using it.

That "Clausen-Type" recipe has been posted here many times, originally AFAIK by Linda Lou, a Master Food Preserver. In addition to the instructions she provides for BWB, that recipe can be low-temp pasteurized. (Missouri Extension mentions it.) That method is more troublesome but can result in a crisper pickle. Again, the link I provided will give instructions.

If you do decide on a normal BWB, the processing times are a bit different for fermented and fresh-pack pickles. Bring the water to the boil, immerse the jars and begin counting right away. Don't wait for the water to return to the boil. This helps prevent loss of crispness and over-cooking.

Good luck. There's always an element of chance with fermentation. That's part of the fun.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Pickles and Relishes

Carol-

That was a great link, but I am all screwed up now. I used Kosher flake salt, not realizing it needs a 50% increase in volume becuase of the weight difference of that and pickling salt. What to do now>? I have that 20 pounds fermenting and I wonder if I should add some salt? But if I do I am unsure how much. The recipe called for 1/2 cup of salt per 8 cups of water and 1/4 cup of vinegar. I quadrupled that recipe for the 20 pounds, any suggestions on the salt?

I really appreciate this, I have never pickled anything! Did you check out the pictures on my lat posting. There is a link to my site where I posted some pictures of the pickling.

Oh boy. My first question is whether you used Morton's Kosher salt or Diamond Crystal Kosher salt. Diamond Crystal is much lighter than table or canning and pickling salt. Morton's isn't.

Also, how long have you been fermenting that batch? How do the cucumbers smell and look?

I will check in later. Other picklers on the Forum may also have advice.

Carol

I used the Diamond Crystal. Pickles look good and smell fine. The brine is cloudy and they have been down 12 days total.

Help, please!!

Unfortunately, I can't give you a definitive answer. Too little salt can lead to food safety issues. Cucumbers are low-acid and there are problems with listeria in pickles held at room temperature.

I'm not a biologist but in your case I'd grit my teeth and toss the batch. I know it hurts, but I'm just telling you what I would do.

There are other issues, if you decide to keep the cukes. You can add 50% more salt, but the process of absorption has been altered by the 12 days that have elapsed. So how salty or not-salty the finished product will be, I cannot predict.

I know you have time in this, but in cucumbers and salt how much do you have invested? I'm betting the dollar amount is small compared to the risk.

Carol

Anyone else have any input? I really hate to start over, this was an all day process and it was a real pain in the a__ to get the cukes. Is the salt ratio really that critical? It erks me these recipes are not more specific, the recipe never said not to use Diamond Brand Kosher salt!!!

Is Listeria that severe? I am wondering how the pioneers did it 100 years ago??

Many of the recipes posted online, especially older ones, assume knowledge which home-users may or may not have. It's frustrating, I know. Recipes used to be "handed down"; instructions weren't written - they were shown.

To answer your other question, a lot of the pioneers used super-strong brines with loads of salt and/or very high-acidity vinegar. People don't understand why Grandma's relish isn't safe by today's standards or why Grandma's relish called for so much sugar. Well, Grandma was probably using 20% (20-grain) vinegar instead of today's 5%.

Rule-of-thumb for brine in the really old recipes was that you should be able to float an egg (like the Dead Sea). Pickles like that often were so salty they had to be soaked in water to be edible.

Listeria is more of a problem with refrigerator pickles. BWB should kill it if it's there so if you process they SHOULD be OK.

It's your call. You can add the additional salt and see what happens. Let us know.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Listeriosis

Stick wth regular PICKLING salt. Its consistant, pure, and is always the proper rate for measurement. The same salt is also used in brines for meat and sausage making. The only time I use kosher is when it calls for that, and works well with things like pasta water, or wherever Alton Brown mentions it. You cannot imagine the amount of posted threads here about overly salty pickles! Many are due to inaccurate amounts of salt or water. When I make a pickle brine, I taste it to get to the proper amount. I measure nothing, and was taught while very young how to tell when the brine s right for pickling. Many other posts about the making of the brine are here, explaining in detail how I arrive at the proper level of salt and water. Thats one reson I like using some of the dill flavored pickle mixes as they give me much more flavore compared to just adding fresh herbs alone. Obviosly I do add fresh to mine as well. Just planted three types of dill seeds, mammouth, fernleaf, and hercules.