Measure after. That's for the diced habs.

Carol

Perfect. That's what I did. That's a lot of habaneros when you go to the hotter version! Came out delightfully hot! When making salsas (like from the Ball Blue Book) can the ingredients be roasted prior to canning or does that change things too much?
I prefer tomatillos roasted but won't do it if not safe.

When a recipe says, "1 cup peppers, finely diced ", it's suppose to mean that you take 1 cup of peppers and then dice them.

When it wants them diced before measuring it's should to say, "1 cup finely diced peppers.

The placement of the words is suppose to tell you what measure is wanted.

I sure wish canning recipes would go to weighing all ingredients like good bread recipes do. It is so much more accurate. I bet everybody measures slightly differently depending on how they pack the cup, how the veggies are shaped, etc.

The newer recipes are going to more accurate quantities, but for those volume-oriented recipes, measurement is best done by the water displacement method. It gets around the issue of odd-size pieces, etc.

It also works well for measuring awkward messy solids like shortening.

Here's an old thread on Strawberry Lemonade where I explain it.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Strawberry Lemonade and Water Displacement

Thank you Carol. I noticed in my BBB that it seems to have volumes and weights, sometimes in the same recipe. Enough to drive a bread baker/science type mad.
Can you point me towards some books with weight measurements? Metric is best.
Your Sweet and hot confetti jelly came out amazing, BTW. I have to try it on BBQ shrimp or grilled fish.

I'm glad you enjoyed the Jelly. It's pretty versatile. Even pepper-haters don't seem to complain about it.

I don't know of any canning resource that goes solely by weight, metric or otherwise, LOL. The problem is we're in a state of flux and agencies like the NCHFP simply don't have the resources to transpose all the existing formulas.

Actually, volume is still an improvement over the oldest recipes, which specify two large onions, three medium peppers and such. Now those will drive you nuts.

Canning is a world away from baking and those lovely pro-style and European recipes where everything's measured down to the last gram.

Carol

Thanks Carol. I couldn't find pickling salt anywhere today so I'm going to have to use Kosher salt for my pickle recipes. Do you have a conversion scale for weights with Kosher salt since it has a higher volume compared to pickling salt? I'm especially concerned if I try fermenting something that I have a high enough quantity of salt.
Also, have a very hard water here. Added some vinegar to my second BWB yesterday after my first set of jars came out with gucky stuff on the lids. Will this effect pH of pickles? I know we are notorious for very high pH soils. Should I use distilled water or something?

OK, if you're substituting, 1 cup of canning and pickling salt weighs 220 grams or 7 3/4 oz. Morton's Kosher salt is approximately the same weight, but I wouldn't recommend it because it has free-flow agents which cloud the brine.

Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt weighs 5 oz. per cup, so you can calculate the difference.

If you have very hard water, I'd recommend softening it before use. Yes, as used, it can affect pH. To soften water scroll down this Extension page.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: University of Minnesota Extension Softening Water

Thanks for the water pointers. I got the Diamond Kosher salt. I can calculate the difference. Sure wish it wouldn't cloud the brine as mail ordering was pretty expensive and I've searched high and low for pickling salt around here.
In the Joy of Pickling, she says that table salt has free-flow agents but not Kosher, just that Kosher has the volume measuring issue. Ah well, my family won't even notice cloudy brine if I don't point it out. It will only bother me.

Diamond Crystal is pure salt and won't cloud the brine. Morton's "Kosher" is just their table salt flaked through rollers (which they freely acknowledge). For that reason Morton's will cloud the brine but Diamond Crystal won't. It's good stuff and will work just as well as C&P salt, allowing for the difference in weight. I use Diamond Crystal for canning on occasion (I can obtain C&P easily) and always for brining.

Carol

Just noticed on the Morton kosher salt box (I have an older one part-gone) that it says "can be used for all pickling and canning recipes" and gives the conversion for measurements on the box.
Does this mean that it doesn't contain anything that will cloud the brine? According to "Joy of Pickling" Kosher salt is Ok, just table and sea salt are not good for clouding.
But, I'd trust your judgement over anyone else's, Carol, that's why I'm asking.

Well, I think they're wrong unless they've changed the formula. If you look on the side of the box for ingredients, the Morton's should say salt, yellow prussiate of soda (anti-caking ingredient). It's the yellow prussiate which can cause clouding of the brine.

Strictly speaking, it's an aesthetic issue rather than a functional one, so in that sense it is true that it can be used for canning and pickling. It's just that when I go to so much trouble to make something I want it to be "perfect" (or as close as I can get).

Of course if you're talking about a quick pickle or relish or salsa as opposed to a fermented pickle, it's not much of an issue either way because you're using the salt as a flavoring agent in small amounts. There isn't enough to have much of an impact one way or another.

But with fermented pickles you working with significant amounts of salt and there it can have an impact.

Carol

It doesn't say anything about yellow prussiate of soda on my box. Maybe it's ok to use, yeah!
I have looked high and low for mustard seeds. Finally ordered online. Yesterday, I actually sifted through the pickling spice that I found to get mustard seeds out for the mango chutney that I made.

Good! It may be that Morton's changed the formula and the box I checked was a previous batch.

Usually in the baking section there are small jars of herbs, including whole mustard seed (something like McCormick's). The only issue is buying that way tends to be much more expensive. However, I don't know your area and it may be your groceries don't carry those things.

If you're doing a lot of pickling and using a good deal of pickling spices, it would definitely pay to buy mustard seed and pickling spice mixes in bulk.

In addition to the site I mentioned previously, Great American Spice offers good value. I notice (just a few days) that they're offering free shipping through May. Their pickling spice is the conventional mix. I buy in bulk and keep in the freezer. (Actually I blend their mixture with Penzey's, which is high in star anise.)

Another wonderful product they offer is vegetable whitener powder. It's similar to Fruit Fresh but much, much cheaper.

Their citric acid (for tomatoes) is also good value. Check under "sour salt" if citric acid doesn't come up.

Check them out.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: American Spice Vegetable Whitener

Tracy where do you live that you can't find pickling salt and mustard seed, Alaska or out in the middle of Nowhereville like me? ;)

Seriously, do you have a WalMart? Any of the larger grocery store chains? Any Dollar stores? They all carry canning salt as it is used for many things but it is a very different looking package so you may not recognize it. And mustard seed is a very common thing in seasoning/spices section. Maybe ask at the counter as they may have them somewhere else in the store for some reason.

If you stick with the Kosher salt then as Carol said I would strongly encourage you to use the Diamond Salt you got and NOT the Morton's regardless of what it says on the box. No one is ever happy with the Morton's results.

Dave

I live in Mesa,Az. I've tried every grocery and health food store in Mesa including the Hispanic produce mart and the Seventh Day Adventist baking store. Ground mustard only. Tried Walmart too. They all seem to have the same set of spices except the health foo d stores. Did find juniper berries which I noticed for a recipe in The Joy of Pickling at a Health Food store in the bulk tea.
Found a neighbor with fresh grape leaves in the front yard!
carol, will check out American Spices in the AM. Got free shipping
somewhere off Amazon for the mustard seeds but didn't order the pickling spices, I can get them in small bags at the Hispanic place but prefer bulk.
Was wondering what the star anise was for. I saw that too but have never used it. Guess I never recognized it broken up in the pickling mix.
I'm very excited to try fermenting something, although a bit apprehensive too.
Making more jam and corn relish tomorrow! Mango chutney is my favorite so far.
I need to take a breather from canning for a minute. Out of bread and also supposed to be baking cookies as a test baker for a new Jewish baking book. One recipe assigned per week for the next year. This month I'm in the cookie baking group.

Test baker! That should be fun. At least if a recipe is less-than-successful, some benefit will come from it.

Star anise isn't common in pickling mixes as it's a more expensive spice. But Penzey's has a unique proprietary pickling spice using it and a higher proportion of other expensive ingredients (as opposed to mustard seed, etc. which is cheaper).

I like their pickling spice but I've found for my taste I need to blend it with another brand. A little star anise goes a long ways. Compare their ingredients list with that of American Spice and you'll see what I mean.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Penzeys Pickling Spice

Perhaps you all have not dealt with Atlantic Spice Company, in Massachusetts? Much less expensive than Penzey's. Example: Mustard Seed, Yellow 1 lb. Atlantic Spice = $2.40 Penzey's = $4.60. If you bought mustard seed in little jars from the local grocery store, a pound would cost $35.00!!!! Therefore, if you intend to use a spice regularly or just occasionally for the next 5 years, buying a pound of it at once and storing in a vacuum sealed bag or a quart canning jar would save you a ton of bucks. Some rarely used spices, like star anise, is not advisable to buy in pound bags, but I did go halves with a neighbor for a 3oz. container from Spice Barn Company (another great on-line company), so perhaps you could check around for sharing spices with friends?

As for measurements, I have converted almost all my tried and true recipes to weights. It was slow going, but worth it in the long run. I also made up a master sheet with things like the weight of raspberries or dried apricots per cup, flours, nuts, chocolate, peppers, etc., to use for new recipes. For marathon jam and jelly making, the 7 cups of sugar needed has a weight listed that includes my favorite weighing bowl so I don't have to deal with tare every time. If you are serious about cooking, baking and canning, a digital scale is worth the twenty or thirty bucks a thousand times over. I got one at Target on-line that is very accurate for $25 (Primo brand). For weighing things over 10 pounds (like apples), I use a bathroom scale - weigh myself, then pick up the basket of fruit and read the weight, then subtract my weight. It comes really close when measuring large quantities that don't quite fit on a scale by themselves. I note the weights in my cooking and canning books on each recipe I try so I won't have to search elsewhere again. For recipes that aren't specific about when the measurement is taken - diced peppers and peppers diced - I usually go with the measurement as being the finished one, in the Gold recipe that would be the diced measurement. Hope this helps.

Nancy

Here is a link that might be useful: Atlantic Spice Company

Thanks, Nancy. I will look into Atlantic Spice, though I'm preserving in much smaller quantities than you are.

Personally, while Penzey's has its fans and its plusses, I do prefer The Spice Company, which is the original Penzey family company. For my taste the freshness and quality of the spices is unequalled. The problem I run into is there are certain products I do prefer from one company or another and I've never found a single purveyor that meets every need. And of course shipping factors in. Being here on the Left Coast, some company's shipping formulas add considerably to my cost.

I agree on weighing and I've done much the same. I have a big farm scale I use for beets, beans, etc. and a kitchen scale I rely on for nearly everything. I'm a big fan of MyWeigh scales, especially the 7001DX series. (Though I think they may offer a newer model now.) It's received rave reviews online and among cooks on the King Arthur Flour Baking Circle and is a great value. I bought mine directly from the distributor but now he offers a list of recommended dealers. I bought a second MyWeigh scale from Old Will Knott Scales (in Oklahoma). They were nice people to deal with.

My big-batch Hot and Sweet Confetti Jelly recipe has been converted to weight. It's posted somewhere on this forum.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: MyWeigh Scales

Need some help with weights vs. measurements and hope to resurrect this thread.

I am making Elie Topp's Asian Plum Sauce. Finally some weights to work with! However, she calls for 1 1/2 lbs. of plums, finely chopped, in the ingredient list. Then she states (parenthetically) in the instructions that this should come out to 1 3/4 cups of fruit. Well, I had a bit less than 1 1/2 lbs and it measures out to 2 1/2 cups!! (deliver me)

So, this recipe also calls for the following:

1 1/2 c. brown sugar firmly packed
1 c. cider vinegar
1 1/2 t. salt
1 1/2 C. chopped onion
3 cloves garlic
1/4 c. raisins
2 tsp. soy sauce
1/4 t. chili powder
1/8 t. each cloves, cinnamon, ginger and allspice

My question is, do I go by the weight or the volume measure? I imagine I would be safer with the volume, but then I have a handful of plums I will have to send to the chickens. :-) Could I just bump the sugar and vinegar proportionately? I know that will leave everything else in smaller quantities, proportionally. (sigh)

What I want to hear (and know I may not) is that there is enough vinegar and sugar for this amount of fruit and I can safely add the "extra" volume of plums, leaving the rest of the recipe as is.

I'm assuming the 1 1/2 pounds is raw weight and the 1 3/4 cups is yield after stemming and pitting and chopping.

I can definitely see some variations depending upon variety of plum.

I would stick with the 1 1/2 pounds and go by taste. Plums are acidic so there are no safety issues in increasing. If the mixture after some cooking appears to need more sugar (sweet) or vinegar (tang) then add it.

There would only be an issue if you bumped up the onion or the garlic. As long as you leave those alone the mixture will be safe. Variations in plum volume or changes to the sugar and vinegar are immaterial.

Carol

Yea!!! Thank you. Everything is sitting here, waiting to go. But, I started to get nervous and stopped cold in my tracks. It was my intuitive guess that I'd be okay. But, this canning business has gotten more complicated -- less intuitive -- the more I learn. Thanks, Carol.

"Variations in plum volume or changes to the sugar and vinegar are immaterial."

I would potentially clarify what Carol said - and correct me, Carol, if I am wrong - that *increases* to the vinegar would be immaterial. However, I it would NOT be ok to REDUCE the vinegar as that would change the acid to onions/garlic ratio. Just as I would not go *below* the 1.5 pounds of plums, regardless of the volume.

That is true. We were speaking of increases in plum amounts and bumping up the sugar and vinegar, but it is more accurate (and definitely safer for those who might misconstrue or read only selected posts) to clarify. Decreasing vinegar is a definitely safety concern as is decreasing the plums since they are a higher-acid product.

The sugar is immaterial either way - up or down.

Carol