Oh, you all are so wonderful! Thank you for all the tips and stories. OK, I have decided I will make it in my new crock pot, it is one of thos larger oval shaped ones so I am guessing it will hold quite a bit. I will weigh down with the brine bag and cover and use the travel strap that came with the crock pot. So, based on what you all shared and reading some of the past posts I shouldnt even peek for 3-4 weeks, right?

I can't wait to try this, I am so excited, I will keep you all updated.

Thanks,
Susan in NC

Ok, I have a recipe where you make it in a canning jar and use a little whey from your homemade yogurt to start off the kraut and its supposed to sit out for 3 days only. Do you think that's realistic?

> ...and its supposed to sit out for 3 days only.

Sit out for 3 days and then what? More info please.

Hi Everybody,

Ok, I cut up the cabbage and layered it with salt in the crock pot, pressed down really hard, topped off with a gallon ziploc bag of salt water and covered. How soon before I see liquid? Should I have made a brine and covered it with liquid or does it just take time to make its own brine.

Yes, I used the search, no this question was not answered and Yes I went to the site with the Sauerkraut how tos and though it costs only $1.00 the y want to charge me 12.00 to ship one page to me on making sauerkraut. Sorry I am not paying 12.00 shipping for one piece of paper.

Can amyone answer this question for me?

Thank you,
Susan in NC

susandonb -

I've never made large batches of sauerkraut - but the recipe books seem to think the brine will "appear" when the cabbage starts to release juice. They also recommend pushing the cabbage down hard in the crock.

My method has been in small amounts - mainly because that is how I grow my veggies - so it is easier to process as I go.

I found the recipe here on these forums some time ago - and have used it since then.

Making in pint jars - shredding cabbage, pressing down hard into the jars - then (I think I forgot this - according to the posting above) - add 1 tsp salt for pints, 1 tbs for quarts - then ADD BOILING WATER TO COVER CABBAGE - I then place a small baggie over the jar, then a regular canning lid and cover.

It is allowed to ferment at room temps - there will be some seepage - so put the jars in something to catch the drips - because no matter how hard you put the cover on, it will leak somewhat.

You will note after awhile, the aroma will smell like "kraut" - hooray. Can't recall how long - several weeks. Taste occasionally to see if all is OK. There should be no scum with this method, mainly because the air can't get to it.

Last March, when I made the last batch - I decided to try just storing it back on the bottom ledge of my fridge - rather than proceeding to the canning stage - just to see how long it would keep. This recent post reminded me it was there, so I took a taste test. It is just fine, and best of all, it is crunchy - just like it would be fresh.

If it is further processed - heating the brine and adding kraut - just to boil point, then pack into jars, and BWB for about 10 minutes to seal. This, however, does take away some of the crunch, leaving a slightly more cooked end product. Still good, however.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Thanks Bejay. I still am not sure if I should add water to the crock. I will research it further and update later.

Thanks for the help.
Susan

Susan, we are trying to help you.

Did you check the link I provided on the other sauerkraut thread or are you referring to some other document?

That booklet can be purchased, but you can also read it online and print it out yourself, so no money beyond paper and ink is necessary.

To answer your other question, no you don't need to add water. As the prepped cabbage wilts due to the action of the salt, natural liquid from the cabbage itself exudes. Don't add any water beyond the small amount that may be left on the washed cabbage. It weakens the brine and that can affect safety and lead to spoilage.

Also be sure you use canning and pickling salt, not table salt.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Other Sauerkraut Thread

Sorry, 3 days and then refridgerate. Sorry to butt into this post also.

Butting in here, isn't a worry. I feel that these forums are more of an ongoing journal for some people. They can also help to record a persons attempt at doing something, and automatically asks for others to comment on the issues too. Forums are always open to different options and opinions.

Susan,

If you crushed down the cabbage/salt properly you will have salty juice over the cabbage in a day or so. (weights are necessary to compress cabbage and allow liquid to cover) This salty layer is what protects from kahm yeast & other nasties from forming.

The crocks work well if everything is done properly. I prefer a clear glass container so can observe everything that is going on. In a closed system I can use much less salt too.

seneca,

If you are using a lacto acid bacteria whey as a starter in a capped canning jar then 3 days at room temps and then putting into a 45° fridge will work. I prefer at least a week at temps in the 65-75° range before putting in the fridge. Do not put into fridge before visible evidence of fermenting. (bubbles)

The idea is to get the bacteria producing CO2> quickly enough to protect growth of undesirables. (in a closed system) This way you do not need all that salt for protection.

jt

Ok, update. I was able to access the UofW page and discovered I used the wrong salt. I used iodized table salt, so I am guessing I have to start over. Any chance I could rinse this cabbage and re-do it with pickling salt?

Never occured to me to ask what KIND of salt had to be used, duhhh!

Susan in NC

Home canning and the use of 100% pure pickling salt are very important. Not only does that salt you used contain iodine, it may also contain anti-caking additives. Kosher salt (mine is Diamond brand) also contains these anti caking additives. Ball and Mrs. Wages offer 100% pure pickling salt with nothing else added. Hope your batch doesn't come out too wierd tasting.

I'm sorry we didn't catch this earlier. But I don't think there's a one of us who hasn't made a mistake or two in the learning process.

Someone else may have a better answer. There's conflicting information about using iodized salt. I've heard the iodine interferes with fermentation and you end up with a soft sauerkraut.

But I've also read documents/studies of commercial food processors who routinely use iodized salt without problems, as long as it's not in huge amounts. Swiss food producers use iodized salt.

It's important to use canning and pickling salt in all fermented pickle products. Different salts vary in weight and if you substituted kosher salt, for example, 1 for 1 in say fermented dills, you wouldn't have a strong enough brine because kosher salt weighs less.

Table salt also has flow ingredients that tend to cloud the brine. It's not a safety issue, just an aesthetic one.

Fortunately the salt you used is approximately the same in weight, so you're OK there.

How big a batch is this? My guess is right now your odds are as good leaving it as is as rinsing and adding different salt. We'll just have to see what happens.

Good luck, Susan. You will get there.

Carol

Hi Carol & Ken and All,
OK, I used 6.5 lbs of cabbage and it fit nicely in my oval 5 qt crock. Today there was no juice and it had been 24 hours so I dumped it out in the sink rinsed good with cold water, drained and followed the recipe. I sprinkled with 4 Tblsp of pickling salt mixed well and put back in the crock pot. I pressed down in layers and got a great amount of juice flowing from the cabbage this time. Looked just like the recipe describes. So I think I saved it and it should be ok, I used the brine filled bag to weight itthen covered with a towel and the glass cover for the crock.

We shall see....

to be continued....
Susan

LOL, you are having an adventure with this sauerkraut, aren't you!

Carol

Isn't it fun???? Now, the hard part........waiting.
Glad it seems to working OK now.
Deanna

I am definitly having an adventure! And,,,yes it is fun!

Ok, I know you all must think I am an idiot but even after reading the how to sheet, I still am not sure I get this? Like I said it finally looks right but it still doesn't have brine covering it completely, it is a little bit. Should I add some salt water to the crock to completely submerge it? I thought the whole point is for the cabbage to ferment thus creating its own brine and shrinking? Am I understanding the process wrong?

Yes, I analyze things to death, you should see me in my garden...my poor butternut squash sees me coming and say,"Shhh, don't move, maybe she won't talk to us again today, Don't ya hate it when she calls us babies!"

Thanks for all your patience with me, if this kraut comes out edible I will post a pic of us eating it.

Susan

Next comes that odd smell.. No one will want to be near it!

Oh yeah, it smells, I had to take the cover off to check the brine level and it smels like cabbage cooking. I take it that is a good thing? I assume it should not smell rotten.

Depends on who the smeller is. Cabbage cooking isn't a pleasent experience! Your know if its bad though..

This is becoming quite an adventure! I love it!

Bejay, I tried your casserole recipe tonight. It didn't sound like the kind of thing we usually care for, but I have a lot of kraut left, and the cabbage is growing! It was great! I used Amish Muenster cheese on top and forgot to dot with butter, but it was really good.

I really think the amount of water will vary according to the cabbage you use. Some is just wetter than others, and the climate has a lot to do with it, too. We've used table salt for years because I was too cheap to spring for the pickling salt, and the recipe was DH's grandmother's, using regular table salt. The good canning salt does give a clearer product, but that isn't so much an issue with kraut as it is with pickles, etc. Our process "bruises" the kraut and DH does it with his nice big hands. This encourages the salt to penetrate the cabbage, and we like the flavor it produces. There are almost as many processes for kraut as there are tasters. It's a very personal flavor! Good luck!

It's interesting to see the comments on the subject of sauerkraut. Have been doing a lot of thinking lately. As I posted, I make it in smaller one pint sizes.

The question of whether to add the boiling water has been on my mind. Soooo - because I do a lot of analyzing the finished product - in preparation for the next venture - the "thing" about adding hot water - instead of just letting nature take it's course - has me wondering why the original poster used hot water to start the whole thing cooking.

Perhaps, making it in smaller sizes can limit the amount of brine produced. Also pouring hot water over the salt on top - gets the salt to the cabbage a bit faster. That may/may not be a factor.

I did note quite a bit of brine ooze - and now wonder if a bit less hot water, might be in order. Still not adding hot water, would necessitate that the cabbage itself make enough fluid to reach the salt on the top - which in essence, may take awhile, especially if one's hands weren't all that strong.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Hot/warm water.. Think of it as bread making and dealing with yeast (bacteria). Warm water in bread dough helps to speed up the fermentation of the yeast. Cold will slow that down.

That's true - but how about, if the water creates too much brine, so that it oozes out of the jar - (which it does). Will it also dilute the brine, so as to make it less safe?

Gee - I hate it when I start overdoing the gray matter.

Bejay

Bejay,

I've pretty much stayed out of this because am an idiot. Here's the way I see it. We want the brine to always cover the cabbage to keep the air away. The brine oozes because fermentation is going on and is producing carbon dioxide gas which is acidic and also protects from the nasties in the air as the brine does. This is why I use a quick start ferment (kefir/yogurt whey or sourdough hooch) in a closed system. I want to be safe, but don't want to be eating a lot of salt.

What I have found is that shaking the capped canning jars daily releases the gas bubbles to the surface and the gas escapes more readily than pushed up brine & cabbage so there is little or no oozing.

Oozing is messy, but not bad.

Just my opinion and 1¢ worth.

jt

Interesting post JT.

You mean you don't use ANY salt when making sauerkraut? I also have quite a lot of "hooch" now that I have sourdough starter in the fridge most of the time.

In effect, I like the closed jar idea as well - much less scum forming as a result of too much air penetration. It also fits in with the small gardening output that I have.

As I recall, you were using a balloon as a gas release on you pepper ferments. But obviously, kraut must have some air releasing cover, so not completely sealed ?.

I like my single jar method just fine, and so far all goes well, but still like to be cautious as I'm still a novice with it.

Thanks. Always like to see your postings on fermentation. I may get into pepper powders this season - my peppers are coming on now with the hot weather especially. But I'm not adventurous enough to go into the fermentation of them - not yet anyway.

If I get enough grapes next year, perhaps I will learn more about the different aspects of fermentation - it all takes time, and like anything new, seems to require experience to get an acceptable end product.

I've learned a lot from these forums -

bejay

Bejay,

No more balloons or airlocks on my canning jar ferments anymore. Screw the caps down finger tight just as you would for canning. I want the lids just tight enough that liquid won't leak out when I shake the jar each day or two. Grated cabbage and pepper mashes are the only ones that need an occasional shake to release trapped bubbles.

Salt retards fermentation. I do have a recipe for a no salt sauerkraut, but my favorite one has 2 tsp sea salt per 1/2 gal and this is strictly for taste. Invariably with all my fermentations I end up saying that it needs salt. I would rather add salt or a salt substitute later rather than make something too salty.

Is there any danger that a jar might explode? Yes. I've purposely tried to make a jar or sauce bottle explode and so far have failed. However, I have hot sauce manufacturing friends and home brewing friends that say that it can happen. I've personally never had a jar explode while pressure canning veggies, but have heard that it happens.

jt

Hi Everyone,
Oh My Gosh! It smells wonderful! My kraut is bubbling and stinks and tastes just salty enough. I couldn't resisit I had to peek. It will be a week Saturday that I put it in the crock. I moved it to a little warmer room in the house, the room I had it in is pretty cold from the air conditioning. I can't wait till this is finished, I can't believe I am making home made sauerkraut!

Thank you all for the help and especially the inspiration!

Susan

Susan,

And no kahm yeast scum? Sounds like you did everything right. Warmer does make the fermenting faster, however, cooler and longer will give you more complex flavors. I bought a small refrigerator and set it at 45°F for final stage. Ferments that I opened after 10 days at 75° were very good even w/o that final stage.

Now I want to make some more!

jt

I don't see any scum? My next question is, will it turn the opaque white color of bought kraut or will some of the cabbage stay green? It still has quite a bit of green but it is all wilted looking and some opaque.

MAN, does it smell good! And it tastes like kraut already. I just licked my finger after poking it a bit. I can't stand the wait!

At this rate I can't see that mine will take 4-6 weeks? I woudl think by then it would be yucky? I want to can some of it but there really isnt that much in the crock, we may eat it all up! :)

Susan

I'm using red cabbage kraut that I started last October. On Dec 8th it had a pH of 3.75 and I expect is even lower now. Smells and tastes great. After opening it was stored for several months at 45° and is now in a much colder fridge.

I trust my pH meter more than my nose. Men don't smell as good as women.

John, Could it be their perfume?? [grin]

> John, Could it be their perfume?? [grin]

Bad ken.. bad! You know darn well what I meant.

OK, new question....If the kraut is still fermenting but smells and tastes to my liking, can I rinse it and can it?

And...do I need to add a couple of Tbsps of vinegar to up the acidity?

Thanks,
Susan

Susan - If you want to can it --

This is what I would do if it tastes right to you. Drain the kraut. Bring the juice to a boil. At this stage, taste the brine, if you thing it needs some distilled vinegar to taste, add it now.

When the brine is boiling, add back the drained kraut, and bring - just to boiling point.

Then pack in sterile jars, cover with juice to 1/4 - 1/2 inch, remove bubbles, cap with canning lid and cover, and BWB for 10 minutes - just to seal.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Bejay,
What if the brine is too salty? Should I add lots of water or do something different?

If the salt was measured properly in the beginning, it shouldn't be too salty. Too much salt can turn the kraut pink, caused by growth of certain yeasts. They also grow if the kraut is improperly weighted or covered. (see JT's post above - about excluding air which causes kahm yeast).

Not sure about salvage, but perhaps omitting some brine and adding some water and vinegar, MIGHT work. Vinegar is a preservative, might slow down further yeast formation and be less salty. I think I'd try to can it if OK otherwise, then rinse before using it.

Comments appreciated jt?

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Well Friends, I decided to process the kraut today. I drained it into a pot to reserve the brine, there wasnt much. I then rinsed the kraut in a colander four times submerging it in a big bowl to soak the kraut for a few moments each time. After the rinsing it was still pretty salty but I went with it. I added water to the brine in the pot and brought it to a boil. I then added 2 Tblsp cider vinegar to each qt jar and packed the kraut into the jars covering with boiling brine mixture. Then I processed it in BWB for 10 minutes.

It looks gorgeous! I had enough for 2 qt jars and one pint. We will have franks and kraut tonight so I will post later this evening to let you all know how it came out, I can't wait!

To Be Continued.......

susandonb -

Well you never know - you just might be on to something - sounds interesting.

Keep us posted.

Bejay

Well, we had some kraut with franks tonight and it was wonderful! It looks beautiful and tastes yummy. I am ready to make another batch.

I want to thank everyone here who advised and encouraged me with this new adventure, you all helped make my first time making kraut a joy.

Hugs to all,
Susan in NC

Susan,

Thanks for your inspiration! I started a kraut ferment today. Red cabbage, sour apple, onion, caraway seeds, bay leaves, sea salt & juniper berries with kefir whey or sourdough hooch for a starter. I made 2 pints with hooch & 2 pints with whey for starters.

jt

Here is a link that might be useful:

Sounds super jt.

Give us a post update on progress - when do you think it will be finished? Will you just refrigerate it then, eat it, or process in BWB when it's done?.

Also, how much hooch do you use in the starter?

bejay

This is how I made it this time...

To make 4 pints (the ingredient measurements do not have to be precise)

Cabbage .. 2 lbs 13 oz
Sour apple .. (Granny Smith) 10 oz
Onion .. 8 oz (I like a hot yellow, but this time a Vidalia)
Sea salt .. 2 tsp
Caraway seeds .. 1/8 tsp
Juniper berries .. 1 per pint (whole)
Bay leaf .. 1/2 per pint (I used fresh)
Kefir whey or sourdough hooch .. 1 tsp per pint

Grate the cabbage, onion and apple into large mixing container. Add the salt and caraway seeds and mix all thoroughly.

Put 1 juniper berry, 1/2 bay leaf and 1 tsp of either hooch or whey into each jar. I use a turkey baster. You will still get some small curds with the whey, but this is OK.

Pack cabbage mixture into each jar up to 2" below the top. A hot sauce woozy (bottle) works nicely for packing. Don't smash the cabbage, just snug it up.

Add water to 1" below top. Slide butter knife repeatedly through the mix to release the trapped air bubbles. Gently squish the cabbage mix down again. Adjust water level. Cap the jar finger tight just as would for canning.

This is purposely a somewhat watery mix and makes it easier to shake loose trapped CO2 gas every day or two for the first week or 10 days. Sauerkraut tends to froth and overflow the jars. Shaking them will help prevent. Gas will escape instead of liquids.

These jars will be 2 or 3 days at room temp (85°F for me) and then put down in the basement (70°) for a week or maybe 10 days. Then a month or so in my 45° fridge. If there is good gas production in 2 days then will put in basement. Might take 3 days.

This is a very forgiving system. If there turns out to be too much cabbage in the jar and is bubbling out too much during the first week or so then remove cap and take some out. Clean rim and recap. No problem because more gas will quickly drive the contaminated air out. I've never had kahm yeast with this closed system and don't ever expect to.

Looking back it would have been much easier to have added the salt and caraway seeds to individual jars and I'll do that next time. I used about twice the amt of caraway seeds this time as the last.

In 10 days or so I'll open a jar of each to pH and taste test. Then all 4 will go into the 45° fridge. They will continue to ferment and the taste will improve.

Note... my sourdough is made using 2 parts water to 1 part flour. It's watery on purpose so can more easily collect the hooch for fermenting.

jt

JT,
It looks great but I am not at all understanding the purpose of the starter or whey? I am so lost? Is it just to help accelerate the fermenting process? I am all about easy and ease of time.

I would love to make kraut with red cabbage, I may try and grow some this Fall. Have to look for seeds, don't think I have any.
I talked to some folks on this site but at another forum about swapping for some cabbage seed and made the deal, I sent mine out but never got my cabbage? Money is tight and buying seed is not feasible right now. Plus, I was on my way to work yesterday morning and a lady did U turn without looking and I hit her head on at about 40 MPH. Totaled my car and have a sprained wrist, neck, muscle spasms, and mild concussion. Hasn't been a good month for us.

Poor hubby is out digging up potatoes alone today, I can't possibly bend over.

Keep us posted on the red kraut and would love to hear the principle behind the starter, I love scientific end of cooking! :)

Susan in NC

Susan,

The hooch and/or whey get the ferment off to a fast start. This also gives us control over which bacteria dominates. Not all 'natural' sauerkraut ferments turn out well even if don't have that nasty kahm scum.

So sorry about your accident. Please heal quickly!!

jt

Thanks jt - I think I'm gaining on it - but still a bit hazy about getting the "right" bacteria. Haven't tried the hooch starter yet, but hope to soon. Made a copy of your nice helpful notes for future reference.

I still have some Juniper berries left - hooray. Don't know what I'd do with them otherwise.

Susan - that is a shame - about your accident. Hope you feel better soon.

Bejay

7 days now. A couple days at 85° and the rest in the basement at abt 70°. This is the least "bubbly" ferment I've yet to make. I think both the whey and hooch were not as active as usual because had been in the fridge for a month and not fed. Nevertheless, the smell is incredibly wonderful and no visible signs of kahm mold. I don't need to open the jars to smell because of the positive pressure of the gas being produced. At least 3 more days at 70° and then into the 45° fridge for a month or so.

jt

Guess we should show the link to the other recent post about the same topic.

Here is a link that might be useful: kraut link

I just tested 2 of my 4 pint jars of kraut. 1 ea of the sourdough hooch and Kefir whey.

Taste was excellent for both. pH of the sourdough starter one was 3.19 and the Kefir hooch one was 3.28 Very nicely acidic & will probably drop a little for both after a month in the 45° fridge. The 4 jars can only get better even though I would be happy to eat after the 15 days.

Both jars that I opened were still active and the gas being produced should quickly drive out the contaminated air and combined with the acidity will prevent any kahm yeast mold from forming.

I really think that I am getting the hang of this!!!

jt