Yes fermenting, when done properly, insures a safe food product. Unfortunately many don't do it safely and that is the problem with many of the old fermented food recipes.

Ongoing testing has proven that many of the past recipes failed to kill many of the bacteria but actually encouraged new problem contaminants.

Link below is to the general fermentation guidelines currently in use. Recipes and specific details are available from the same site.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP - Fermentation Guidelines

The fermentation creates lactic acid which is produced by the enzymes in cukes and the salt water brine. I always think of fermentation as being something that bubbles and turns to alcohol, but thats not the case here.

The lactic acid is acidic enough to preserve the crock pickles. As long as they are fully fermented, and not "listeria" refrigerator ones. Those are the ones that folks make and leave out for 3 days and then put in the fridge. They can't make enough of the lactic acid by then to keep them safe. So, listeria can grow in them. Either fully ferment or make the fridge ones and put right away in the fridge.
They must be fully fermented to keep them safe.
That, or use the quick pack ones with lots of added vinegar. At least half 5%acidity vinegar to water ratio.
I like quick pack pickles. Much faster and easier for this busy girl.
I have a class to teach tonight. Bye.

One other point we need to add Dean - many of the old crocks contain lead in the clay or glaze and can leach into the food. So investing in a new crock or using food grade glass or plastic containers instead is worth the effort and cost.

Dave

Never happened to me, my brother, my other or my grandmother. We all add a few tablespoons of vinegar after the 3 days of fermentation. If they go soft and mushy, its usually due to low salt in the brine, or water that is not very pure. Listera might scare some, but even for that, I use a dill pickle mix that has additives to prevent spoilage, and add a little vinegar once it goes in the fridge, I have no issues or safety concerns. Mine are stored in the fridge up to a year, and my grandmother would leave her big jar out all the time, unless it was very hot indoors and they showed a bit too much scum. The half sour partially fermented cukes still ferment in the fridge, and will continue to make lactic acid as long as the cukes are kept in the brine.

I guess that for all these centuries half sour fermented pickles are suddenly dangerous and poisonous for anyone to attempt? HA!! Teaching home canning is one thing, but if you are phobic about some very tiny safety issues, don't even bother to attempt any kind of canning be it BWB or pressure. Why risk your precious health, buy store bought and be safe. HA HA!!

Probaly another dumb queston here, but I have been making refridgerator pickles for a few weeks now by doing the following, cut pickles into quarters, mix a Ms.Wages or Ball pickle mix according to directions, then putting in fridge. My kids are eating these so fast I don't think they last more that a week or more. Are these safe? I left them out overnight to let them cool. then straight into the fridge.

Are they safe? Probably but in the future don't leave them out over night. As Linda Lou said above, for the most safety go one way or the other - fully ferment on the counter so the lactic acid kills the bacteria OR go right to the fridge. Listeria, if it is there, can still grow in fridge pickles but it does so very slowly over time.

Dave

thank you Dave i did go to the link you posted and the recipe i use was the same as was recommended.

thank you Ken. i used food grade plastic 4 gallon buckets.

i got three buckets fill that will be fermented on Sept 8.

a friend tried to make crook pickles and when the scum arrived she through them out. i am sending her the recipe i used and let her know about the scum.

i have two buckets of Boston pickling and one of Market more.

yesterday i canned 8 pints of sliced jalapenos and then i made nachos. they are fiery. mush hotter then nachos from the gas and go.

i am no pansy with hot peppers but i guess i am still part gringo. they burn in a such a nice way.

Dean

Do you mean CROCK? not 'crook' ??

Ken, I didn't do the tests, the food scientists did. Guess you know all about the link to listeria and the pickles. Yes, people got sick from doing that process. You do as you wish, but still a good thing to provide the information for others so they can learn if they wish. I can send links to quite a few places.
http://theutahhouse.org/files/uploads/Getting%20crisp%20pickled%20vegetables.pdf
http://extension.usu.edu/juab/tv/faq/faq_q=220

Here is a link that might be useful: Listeria in refrigerator pickles.

As mentioned numerous times. I use a Mrs. Wages dill pickle mix for my salt based brines. One of them contains the following:
SALT, MALTODEXTRIN, SPICE EXTRACTIVES, CITRIC ACID
Another contains the following:
Salt, Alum, Garlic, Natural Spice Extractives, Polysorbate 80.
Note the last ingredient. One of the Mrs. Wages mixes states that you mix 5 cups of vinegar to 11 cups of water. That, to me is way too much water!! I never usually add any water to my vinegar based brines, but once I get the 20% vinegar, I would expect that ratio to be more appropriate. Needless to say, I keep my fridge way down to just above freezing at 34-36 degrees. At that temp, not much goes bad in my fridge for a very long time. I also add distilled vinegar to my fermented pickles once they get placed in the fridge. I ONLY pickle my OWN home grown cukes, and would never even think of suing store bought ones, no matter how fresh they look. I wash my cukes well too. The fermentation continues for months, even while in the fridge. I find, after six months, the cukes take on a very noticable sour acidic taste, similar to vinegar, but more complimentary for the cukes and dill. As you also realize, there are still a lot of commercial pickle makers who make half sours (Classen), and they either add a preservative, or must use some kind of radiation if they want a totally bad bacteria free product.

Food scientists seem, at best, to offer limited testing on most things. They never factor in some of the more elaborate methods a home canner could have at their disposal. My vacuum pump is obviously one of the things food scientists would never be able to evaluate. Another good example is my use of a steam canner for high acid pickles and jellies. The scientists say its unsafe, only because they have not the time or funding to properly test the device. So I took it upon myself to test the canner for heat penetration under my conditions, which I feel exceed the safety issues.

I bet there are still millions of people out there still making fermented pickles and enjoying the half sours with no safety concerns or negative consequences.