I would not reuse lids. They may come unsealed so I would use them right away. I would put in the fridge and keep watch over the seals. That or you can pop the seals, remove a little for headspace and freeze right in the jars.

ty linda i did not think of freezing them in the jar i might try that with one and see how it goes might be a bit thinner after un freezing it but worth a try

ty

oldpot, the Ball Blue Book states lids are not reusable, only rings, so I go by those guidelines. I have plastic screw on lids that fit my jars when they have been opened and might be going into the fridge instead of emptied and washed right away, so the flat canning lids go directly into the garbage when those are removed - I don't even tempt myself by keeping them around.

ty morz
yes i miss judged on the lids this time and i had an idea that you could not reuse then but was not sure even if they did seal like the new ones i will try and freeze one like linda said (as i want to try and see what the teste will be like after freezing it )and the other one i just keep in the fridge and use first thats if noone comes and takes it before then heheh

Reusing old used lids is dangerous. It can either cause no, or poor seals and also could get rust inside jars if the lids have even a microscopic scratch that exposes bare metal to an acidic contents. Lids are not expensive so always buy extras. The only time lids can be reused is if they are washed off and used for dry goods in canning jars. The old rubber rings used on glass dome jars were resuable, but today, those old glass jars with wire bail are not used anymore, due to the inability of knowing if there is actually a vacuum inside after a process.

Don't tell my Mom but I reuse them all the time one thing I always save them for is sealing dry good with the food saver

If they come unsealed you will know it Throw them in the fridge you will probly have 2 pints gone in a week anyways

I reuse lids all the time. I get good seals, they last years, the incidence of tiny rust spots is the same as with new lids - very rare. I have not had any problems with re-used lids and often get 2 or 3 cycles with them.

The trick is to know how to open a jar without damaging the lid. It takes a gentle, rotating, prying motion, I use a dull table knife with my hand as a fulcrum. A bottle opener will destroy the lid.

Around here, the price of lids continues to skyrocket, a box of wide mouth is now $4.49 or something ridiculous. I still buy a couple dozen boxes every year.

The manufacturers recommend you always put on new ones. If you don't know how to open a jar without damaging the lid, or if you suspect that the interior may be scratched or damaged in any way, then use new ones. If you are confident that the lid isn't damaged or bent, then they can be reused.

David52, as mentioned, the seal area is already compressed and so the used lids offer minimal sealing a second time. The exposed metal surfaces can also form rust and rust can travel right through the lids and cause the contents to become tainted. Rust on the INSIDE, not the outside, where you can't see it! I would NEVER reuse a lid, no matter how much you might think your saving as to money. Buying lids is about the cheapest things in canning supplies. Some people reuse store bought jars too, which were never meant to see repeated high heat processes done in home canning. Unless you have a good microscope, you cant see the scratches or any wear on the thin coating inside. When a jar lid is hard to remove, its a good sign its been in a strong vacuum. You can take your chances with reusing lids, but keep in mind that unless you have some way to know how many times its been used, you risk even more tainted products. Vinegar, acid, and salt are all corrosive, so for most canning, new lids should be used. If pressure canning, even for that, heat is higher and the sealing compound can weaken further. Some years ago, the compund would even stick to the glas jar rims, leaving tiny craters in the seal area of the lids. $4.49 a box of 12, is way too high. Here, a box cost about $2.50 for wide mouth and a little cheaper for regular mouth lids. eBay also offers many sellers who are selling case lots and they can run below a buck a box. Buying in quantity saves a LOT of money!

Here is a link that might be useful: eBay canning lids

Ken, I know what rust on the inside of a lid looks like. I know what a sealed jar looks like, and I know what opening up a can with a good seal is like. I will continue to reuse lids as I have in the past because it works. I don't get spoiled food, I don't get rusted lids, it works fine. In the thousands of times I've reused lids I have never had any inkling or hint or indication that it might be leading to poor seals, a lower quality food, or spoiled food. If it did, I wouldn't do it.

My Mom reused lids. My neighbors reuse lids. Most people I know reuse lids, and some of the stuff they do I wouldn't do, eg cranking down the screw top on a warped lid, forcing a seal. There is a whole, big world out there of happy canning lid re-users. We hold reunions. Throw parties. Have a great time.

To label contents and canning dates, I use those small stick-on return address labels. They don't wash off in the dish washer, and so I can keep track of how many times I've reused the lids. Three times is fairly common, this fall I finally tossed one that would have been up for #6. Even I was embarrassed, although it still looked good. :-)

This kinda reminds me of an ongoing discussion over on the soil and compost forum, where some people swear that it is almost a 'crime against humanity' to put wood ash on their garden soil, particularly if the pH is alkaline, and never do, and have all sorts of horror stories they will pass along, all from people who have never thrown wood ash on their garden soil.

Yet those of us who do throw wood ash on our soils find that it works just fine, there is a noticeable benefit, certainly no harm, and since I burn 6 cords of wood a year and throw all that ash on my garden and have done so for 15 years, and the people who lived here previously did the same for about 60 years, I think I'll take the empirical evidence instead of the theoretical opinion of someone who doesn't do it.

But nobody is going to change the others mind - I will continue to throw ash on my garden, and those who don't throw ash on their garden will continue not to.

And I doubt that those folks who would never reuse a lid will start doing so.

For that matter, all the new jars I buy now have a seal that has to be broken before I can take the lid off. Packed at a lower altitude, they blow off with a loud pop. I still use them.

It's no big deal. Some will use new lids and throw out all the old ones, and I'll reuse the ones that I can. :-)

I reuse lids too..but they go in a special tub just for dried goods "reuse".

The rust on the insides or the lids isn't easily seen at first It can be a tiny scratch and expand very fast under acidic conditions. I have seen lids rust right through in less than a year. As I stated, you can do what you like, as I am only pointing out that its unsafe to reuse canning lids and would never think of reusing them, no matter how nice they may look on the surface. If the reused lids were so popular, I wonder why so many companies selling them run out very quickly. Here, we have people who will not even use the lids that come packed with new jars. The jars used to come in boxes with the rings and lids in a smaller box. Now they assemble the jars and offer no pressure protection for the seal area. In some cases the rubber is so badly flattened its never going to make a decent seal. It doesn't spring back and was never designed to do that. Sticky labels do fall off if the jars are in a BWB or presure canner. But because you are doing things in an unconventional manner, its obvious to me that your never going to agree with all of the safety issues in home canning. Wood ash has nothing t do with canning lids, and would not impact the safety of home canned foods. Do what you like, and just be careful. reusing a lid is one thing, but for this issue, its hardly worth the risk, no matter if you canned a million jars of things.

Growing up in the Depression, my mother has that 'never waste anything' attitude, and when we were young, showed us how to open jars so the lids could be reused. She showed us how to wash them, inspect them, and reuse them, and how to tell if they were damaged to the point they should be tossed. We've been doing it ever since.

Here, by force of habit, I open a jar carefully so as not to damage the lid, put them in the dish washer along with the jars, there's some brackets on the top shelf that work great. They get washed, I take them out, hold them so the light glares off the surface, and if they look good, we reuse them. If they are damaged, we throw them out.

As for the sticking labels washing off, you say they do, I use them and that doesn't happen to me. They stay on, right through a dishwashing cycle. Again and again. I have jars with 2, 3, and four labels stuck on each other. Your experience is different than mine. For that matter, some years back there was a discussion on reusing glass mayo jars, you said they are not strong enough for reuse and often broke, I found that interesting as I've used them time and again and none have ever broken. Although they switched to plastic some time ago, I still have dozens of old mayo jars that I use, and reuse and reuse again. Once again, your experience is different than mine.

You are saying, as one who does not reuse lids, that they will form tiny minute scratches and will rust out, even if one can't see the scratch, and you point out that you've seen lids rust right through with in a year. I assume those are new lids since you don't reuse lids. I suppose then that should a lid fall on the floor, face down, it should be immediately discarded as it might have a microscopic scratch. Sliding a single lid in and out of the box of a dozen might put a microscopic scratch on that lid, and the ones it touches, as well, and they too should be discarded. And if you take the whole stack of lids out of the box and try to put them back in, they might develop scratches as well.

I have had lids, both new and used, that have had a rust scratch develop. But the incidence is so rare that I only see one every few years. I too have had lids rust through within a year - there was a memorable batch of sauerkraut that would peel paint, Titanium would have vaporized, and we threw out a couple dozen qts. :)

If they don't seal, we proceed just the same way as if it were a new lid - if the seal fails within a few hours after canning, we put it in the fridge and eat it. If the seal fails weeks later and we aren't sure when it happened, we discard the contents. Once again, and after doing this thousands of times, the failure rate is tiny, I have the same, if not higher, failure rate with new lids. This is not some radical, crazy-dangerous departure from the norm. It works. They seal. A seal is a seal. If it didn't work, I wouldn't do it. You, who do not reuse lids, tell me that it is dangerous and won't work and there will be lots of problems. I, who do reuse lids, don't find this to be the case at all.

Posted by ksrogers EasternMass Z6 (My Page) on Wed, Jun 11, 08 at 21:42
Actually, the newer design of lids have a silicone based rubber that has a 25 year or more lifetime. These red rubber compounds are now more resistent to high heat and do not dry, shrink, or come loose from the lids. If the metal lids had scratches in their anti-rust coating, they should be tossed. I have all recent silicone based lids and if I press in hard with a fingernail into one, it springs back in less than a minute. Older lids before about 15-20 years ago were all regular rubber and would crack and split if they had any pressure applied to them. Most of this info I got rom Ball many years ago, as I had quite a lot of lids, of both the grayish color and the red. Kerr used to be gray and the seal area was a bit wider too. It was about 25+ years or more, that Ball finally added the embossed dimple so it could easily show a vacuum. A few small rust spots on rings is fine. If you do use them, use a wet sponge to remove any loose rust first. Wide moouth jars are the same cost as regular mouth in most places. But the wide lids and rings are a bit more $$.

That comes from a thread about lid shelf life, 25 years for the resilient, springy sealing compound. Sounds good to me, but I doubt I have any lids that will go 25 years of reuse.

I assume then that everyone here must carefully write the date they purchase their lids so as to throw them out, new in the box, after 5 years. I wonder if they will put an expiration date on their boxes so there will be more consumption?

Swinging back here to the OP, who re-used two lids and found they sealed up the same as the new lids. I would answer, keep the two jars on the counter and tap the lids to verify the seal for a week or so, and if they're still good, then I'd go ahead and store them with the others, perhaps in front to use them first. Based on not knowing if the OP knew how to carefully open a lid so as to be able to reuse it.

It's all good fun. I suppose in the march towards greater efficiency and profit margin, the lid makers will continue to use less sealing compound and less coating and to encourage ever more lid consumption, they will reach the point where it is impossible to reuse them. Hasn't happened yet. :)

I have a bushel of peaches on the counter and a 3 gal bucket of amazingly good Green Gage Plums that call. As the members of this forum march in lockstep formation to the Never-Ever-No-Way-Never-Reuse-A-Lid Anthem, remember, once upon a time, a lone voice of mild decent, a breath in the wind, was humbly raised.

Here is a link that might be useful: resilience of canning lids

Hee hee, David52. Lovely rants. ;-)

I don't usually reuse lids because for the amount I go through the cost is reasonable, and unlike you I'm way too lazy to remove them carefully and inspect them. But if I'm a few short for a batch I'll do it, after checking them carefully. Never had a problem.

But in all the many discussions here on this issue and the resources out there, the worst possible outcome I've seen for reusing lids is that they MIGHT be less likely to seal, or might unseal more easily, in which case, as long as you can recognize a jar with a broken seal and know not to use it, there's no actual danger, and I can see how the cost of any occasional such jar to be discarded might well be outweighed by the savings in reusing lids!

I suspect the guidelines (not "regulations," no matter how much some folks wish there were a canning police) against reusing them from the government agencies are to guard against users who DON'T know how to recognize a jar that isn't sealed when they open it, and of course such a tendency would be embraced by the canning-jar-lid makers! And, of course, even a new lid occasionally fails to seal or comes unsealed.

You are so right about lids often getting more damage because of how they now come already on the jars when new. Even here at near sea level, jars bought during a hot spell can have their lids pretty stuck on fresh out of the box. I HATE this new packing (and I know Ken even agrees with me on this one!)

Cheers, o revolutionary Dave. Your bold words do not go unheard.

Zabby

P.S. I put my wood ash on my garden (via my compost), too.

Add me to the list of people who put wood ash on their garden, LOL.

I don't reuse lids, though, at least not for canning. I do wash them and use them to seal quart jars of yogurt in the refrigerator or to put on the old blue jars that I use to store beans, rice, etc. Most of mine get bent up when I remove them because I don't have the hand strength to remove them carefully with a butter knife as Dave recommends.

As for the original poster, I'd also just watch those jars and use them first. If they stay sealed, fine. If they don't stay sealed, definitely toss 'em, because even if I checked weekly I wouldn't know WHEN they came unsealed and how many days they sat on the shelf before I found them. That's if you didn't refrigerate them, of course.

BTW, I just bought lids. $1.49 for a dozen regular lids and $2.19 for wide mouth lids. That's at my local hardware store where they are a bit more expensive than WalMart, but I have to drive 30 miles to Walmart and besides, I'd rather give the local owner my hard earned extra pennies.

Annie

Well I can't put wood ash on my gardens even though we heat with wood all winter because my soil pH is already in the teens here in limestone heaven! ;)

But I do see a BIG difference between

(1) re-using a few lids now and then when necessary and with follow-up monitoring, and

(2) doing it intentionally and consistently.

Bending the guidelines (semantics for Zabby's sake) is one thing. Intentionally choosing to disregard or break them are two very different risk levels.

Dave (the other one)

Cheapscate.

Annie and Dave52,

Mind you, I put into the compost not only wood ash but a heck of a lot of stuff that the "rules" say you "can't" compost --- luckily for me there's no compost police, either!

Z, proud cheapskate......... (Ken, I thought you admired thrift! You've shared lots o' great money-saving tips here over the years.............)

I was referring to the person who is very defensive about reusing lids. Saving a few cents per lid is not cost effective if it can cause a seal failure or rust inside without knowing. Or worse, contaminate another food product with traces of a previous food embedded into the seal or metal surfaces.

Ken, I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years. Particularly, I enjoyed your 'defense' of using a steam canner, in spite of the Canning Police prohibition on steam canning. You explained the limitations, you explained that you had actually gone so far as to insert thermometers into the vessel, and you had assured yourself that it was safe for what you were doing. Theoretical arguments against steam canning were raised by people who don't own a steam canner and have never tried it. You patiently explained that nope, from your hands-on experience, which they didn't have, it was ok for what you were doing, and you went to some length to explain the ins and outs.

Likely, after reading your posts, there are some readers who will never ever use a steam canner. Probably, some folks went and bought steam canners because the benefits of less energy use and less time would be a distinct, worthwhile advantage in their particular situation, and they find the theoretical risks acceptable. Likely, there are some readers who read your posts and concluded/extrapolated that there is some *leeway* here in canning, and if the water in my BWB isn't the precise 1 inch over the lids, and in fact is 2 inches under the lids, the food will be safe and they don't have to throw it out or reprocess it.

I am sharing my experiences of reusing lids. I've tried to explain that by carefully opening a jar, lids are often reusable. I've explained that I've been doing this for years, thousands of times. I've explained that I get excellent seals, I've explained that I rarely get rust spots. I've explained that it works. In turn, you, who don't reuse lids, are raising theoretical arguments against it and continue to insist that it doesn't work and that it isn't safe.

I doubt that most readers are going to bother doing what I do. But some readers, sometime, might not have enough new lids for a particular batch, or be stuck with a bucket of ripe plums or something and no lids are available at the stores. These readers might have a few used lids lying around that are in good shape, and realize that they can be used in a pinch.

It isn't all that rare to be short a lid or two. Right now, at the peak of harvest season, where I live all the stores in a 100 mile radius are out of canning jars. This happens every year. Right now, someone might be able to find lids, but it would be a search. Most people, of course, are aware of this and stock up in the off season.

Segwaying off course here a bit, I spent a big chunk of my career overseas working with subsistence farmers, trying to improve their food security. I now live in a poor, relatively isolated rural community where not very long ago, most people had the same food security issues, and there is quite a bit of food preservation knowledge, now fading away as the Depression era farmers pass on. How to keep apples for a year, buried in sand. Smoking and drying meats, not for flavor, but for something to eat in March next year. Storing sausage in vats full of congealed pork fat, and huge crocks of sauerkraut.

It's just something, I think, one should keep in the back of the mind. When we have nasty blizzards here that close the mountain passes, the big grocery stores and restaurants can't be restocked - no milk, bread, fresh meat, and so on, and a few years ago, food delivery was pretty spotty for much of the winter. Power can go out for days. It isn't too much of a stretch to come up with a scenario where reusing canning lids might, suddenly, seem a better idea than throwing the food out.

It sure seems the manufacturers are pushing the lower limits on coatings and sealing compound, as well as jacking up the price.

Dave, you've made good points about the emergency use of used lids, and given those circumstances, I'd probably give it a try. Given the pros and cons, I wouldn't do it absent an emergency, although I do remember a huge "shortage" of canning supplies back in the 70s or 80s, when you just couldn't get them at all.

Of course, I still have a root cellar and I still pack sauerkraut, so I'm probably a dinosaur. That's one of the reasons I still reuse commercial jars if canning lids fit, I've done it my whole life, kept track of breakage and faulty seals and in a waterbath canner I get no more breakage than I do with regular canning jars.

I won't use paraffin, though, although in an emergency I suppose I would. It's messy, hot, I've actually caught the wax on fire. Is it safe? Well, if you get moldy jam toss it out. Is it time or cost effective? Considering the fact that I'm terrible at it, that I nearly always get a leak and that I don't like pieces of wax in my jam, my answer is no. Doesn't mean I wouldn't try it in a pinch.

I agree that the manufacturer puts on the absolute minimum of sealing compound, probably both to save money and to ensure that you have to buy more lids. Planned obsolescence, it's good for business, bad for consumers.

Annie

>> Bending the guidelines (semantics for Zabby's sake) is one thing. Intentionally choosing to disregard or break them are two very different risk levels.

digdirt Dave,
Thanks---I am so grateful I won't even ask how the lids know whether you reused them intentionally or not. ;-)

Z

I won't even ask how the lids know whether you reused them intentionally or not. ;-)

Good one, Z!! I stand properly chagrined for talking to my lids. ;)

Dave

Are these guidelines originating from the people doing food safety testing or the people making and selling lids at a high profit margin? Razor manufacturers discourage the use of mineral oil to protect the edge on a blade, primarily to encourage users to buy more razors at high profit margins. Does anyone have anything beyond theory or anecdote or manufacturers claims to lead us in one direction or the other?

Not reusing lids you mean? Comes from the people doing the testing - USDA/NCHFP. Part of the FAQs there.

Lids should not be used a second time since the sealing compound becomes indented by the first use, preventing another airtight seal. Screw bands may be reused unless they are badly rusted or the top edge is pried up which would prevent a proper seal.

It's also discussed in the General Canning Guidelines.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP FAQs

Thanks Digdirt

On the woodash issue, I live in acid soil so I totally add woodash,

Perhaps some might like to move from the theoretical to the practical. If you manage to pry off a lid that isn't dented, lies flat on a flat surface, and to your eye, looks as if the sealing rim is intact, try filling a jar with with water as you would food, reuse the lid, and can it.